Sonestarick - Starter Motor Issues
 

I was just going to replace the thermostat housing on my V6 auto'. Switched the ignition on and confronted with a constant yellow engine warning light and a flashing red light, on turning over the starter motor made a heavy grinding noise which I assume is where it is failing to engage properly. As I don't have the kit to identify the fault got the RAC out who confirmed the starter was indeed the fault and required replacing. I could use some advice as regards taking the unit off the car. Looking at the situ' I am thinking I could take the battery and box out disconnect/remove the throttle unit which would then give me access to the starter motor looks and sounds good, any advice would be much appreciated.
cheers.

Hello,


I, too, had the grinding noise from the starter motor earlier this year and replaced the contacts. That didn't work; the grinding continued and the motor began to stick intermittently. After two call-outs I bit the bullet and replaced the motor. Getting it out is tricky, but this should help: https://the75andztclub.co.uk/forum/s...d.php?t=325175 The inserted link is also helpful.


Derek.

Rick, your P.M. inbox is full. Please clear some space so that I can reply.

Simon

Starter motor
 

Hi Simon,
Emptied messages folder now .
Cheers Rick'

V6 auto
 

Thanks Rick but four days later ... :confused:

Have you made any progress on this?
If you mean the "check engine" light then what did the RAC say about that? Also, can you identify the flashing red light in your owner's handbook please Rick.
That's unlikely with a pre-engaged starter. They're designed so that motor doesn't receive an electrical supply until it is meshed with the engine. This, coupled with the warning lights, makes me suspicious that there's something else going on with the engine.
Yes, remove the battery and its box but leave the throttle body alone.

And just a tip on your original plans ...
If you have the common leakage the cause is flattened 'O' rings (CDU 3858). I'd strongly recommend retaining your original housing since it's likely to be higher quality than the replacements which also, it's been reported by members, have a cooler thermostat inside which isn't correct for our climate.

Simon

Hi Simon, Apologies for the delay. 1st RAC patrol advised after testing and listening to the metallic noise from the starter that yes starter if faulty.
After charging battery I checked the battery voltage and it was 14.3Volts standing and 11.7 V. under load. After replacing starter motor and engaging starter was presented with a double chunk (for want of a better description)
then nothing. So called RAC again ( different patrolman) Andrew this time who
when switching on the ignition and engaging starter was presented with the double clunk - ran a few tests then asked to test the original starter motor and found after testing that the original starter motor was A OK ! he then attempted to get a long ring spanner down from the top of engine on to crankshaft but could'nt manage it then was going to jack up front of car but finding the tray in situ' aborted and advised better get it into a garage and have it diagnostically tested. He advised putting original starter back on and returning the new unit for refund. So come Sunday I have a friend coming round ( a mechanic) also a member of the club used to working on these vehicles who will jack up car and see if crank will turn and take it from there.

Hello again Rick and thank you for your P.M. early this morning.
So what was the result of your friend's visit on 17th December?

Simon

Engine not turning/ starter issue.
 

Hello again Simon, things have moved on somewhat. Friend John turned up to do a diagnostic check but the system would not allow him in fully it would only give so much info ! not enough to show the problem. So I have had the car into a garage who have now done a diagnostic check and determined that the engine would not turn over due to a water pressure build up. They managed to reduce the water pressure build up by moving the car back and forth and managed to turn the engine over and got the engine running again. Seemingly it is firing on 5 cylinders okay but intermittently on the 6th. Also it shows signs of steam coming out the exhaust. I will find out the true story on Monday as only spoken to the garage over the phone Friday night. I will get the print out and full story in detail then. Their opinion is that the head gasket or gaskets have gone which could lead to more in depth work involved further to heads requiring skimming pressure testing etc etc.
At the moment I am concentrating on getting it back to base and conversations with friends to determine which way to proceed, don't want to think about off loading the car but ? Cheers Rick'

Yes, on the forum we've come across this before from garages. KV6 head gaskets are a different design to the 1.8 litre item which has the reputation of failure. It would take serious abuse to damage one so I have to ask you Rick, is there more to reveal about this car's history (particularly regarding overheating)?

In the meantime there's a business based on the south coast which has specific experience of the 75/ZT and they travel. :} I think they're in the Brighton area but I can't remember the name. They've been recommended on the forum many times. I'd recommend that you consult them.

Simon

Simon,
Thanks again for the advice which I will look into today particularly as you say this company travel. I bought the car 10 years ago with a mileage of K93 miles.
And so it goes on -
If possible would you e-mail me and I can go in depth regards the history if you are interested to that extent if not I fully understand.
Many thanks for the ongoing advice which I will take and act on.
Meanwhile today after the garage has cleared the car for collection which I will do tomorrow and bring back to base for further ongoing action.
Thanks again.
Richard.

Richard,

I've found the business mentioned earlier. It's Mike Stafford of MJS Auto & Marine. He's based in Littlehampton. He's your best bet without a doubt.

let us know how you get on.

Simon

HGF issue.
 

Hello again Simon,
Once again apologies for the delay due to outside interests I have had little time to devote to my passion and a main interest- my '75. So I have at last got round to MJS Littlehampton and have sent them the customer enquiry form on their site. The customer comments include a lot of HGF issues and the related work. And a lot state the prices to be very reasonable indeed so will look to having the work carried out by MJS. after a conversation hopefully on Wed.31st Jan. I will indeed keep you & the club posted as to the ongoing situation.
Many thanks again Simon for the lead to a possible fix to my problem.
Cheers Richard.
ps. if all goes well and according to plan I will indeed sing MJS. praises.

Simon I looked at the website of MJS Littlehampton and indeed it looked just what was wanted very passionate about all things Rover etc sounded just too good to be true and customer comments were A1. So on contacting Mike - he apologised but as now he does not have access to a ramp and is now purely mobile and the KV6 issue I have requires a ramp as it is not something he would do on the driveway so had to pass on this occasion. He recommended Russell Walsh at MG-Rover Solutions at Sevenoaks Kent. I spoke to Russel and explained the situation his reaction was not Oh! no not the KV6, he simply said
ok I will be home in an hour and will look at my diary at be in touch later today.
I am thinking ok as he does not keep a diary on his mobile he is "old" school when nothing is a problem !! So I'll wait to see what happens today and keep you posted.
Thanks again for the input and advice and if all goes well we could be on to a winner regards finding a new source of servicing etc.
Regards Richard.

Going back a few years when I was staying in Eastbourne, this place, https://southcoastgarage.co.uk/ changed my crank pulley when a Rover "specialist" in Pevensey claimed that it was seized on.
They had a couple of Ex-Rover trained mechanics and seemed to be very competent and not too pricey.

HGF Issue
 

Simon, Russell Walsh /MG-Rover Solutions contacted me this eve' and after a brief conversation he sounded confident my problem was HGF and he could address the work on my driveway without much problem. I asked about extra work such as replacing the thermostat / housing with an uprated unit from MGRS Southampton. Meantime I will sort out any other parts to replace when the heads are off, I will look to replace the coil pack that is misfiring but will check the other 5 when at it. After talking with Russell we concluded that as the cam belt, water pump etc was replaced approx' 2 years / K14 miles ago there would be no need to replace them unless any signs of wear etc is in evidence. He did say that the HGF issue does not in his experience happen often and hopefully the heads are not warped or cracked. All sounds very encouraging so I will look forward to Feb 17th when Russell is due to carry out the work and the 75' will be on the road again but I must be prepared for any surprises that may crop up!! Meanwhile I am in the process of making sure there will be enough room in the garage for the car for him to do the work in case the weather is not too friendly. I will keep you posted
Cheers Rick'.

Hello Rick and thanks for the update. I hope that it all goes well for you.
You might like to remind yourself of my explanation of coolant leaks in the 'V' before making a decision on this.

Simon

I've used Russell in the past and found him brilliant at what he does.
Interesting guy to chat to as well.
Cheers

Good to know that some one knows of and has used Russell any endorsement is positive so thanks IGH.
Cheers Rick'

Simon,
Having read your piece I will take heed of your advice regards "Coolant in theV"
Thanks again
Rick'

Hgf . '75
 

Hi Simon,
Regards to my last message the date for Russell Walsh to carry out the HGF repair issue is this Mon.19th. Feb and not the 17th as I advised. I will show Russell your piece on the likely cause of a leak from flattened "O" rings which then allows coolant to spray etc, giving the impression of the housing joint leaking. No doubt we will get the business done with a satisfactory conclusion to the whole issue. Being the eternal optimist I am not looking for any head damage ! I will keep you advised regards to the outcome come Tuesday.
Regards Rick'
PS. Thanks again for your interest in the issue.

Non starter.
 

Hi Simon/ all interested in this issue.
I have had Russell Walsh working on the '75 last week, coolant running through the engine building pressure which prevented the engine from turning over and firing up. Russell stripped out the heads etc which have now been skimmed etc ready for the rebuild. Russel returns tomorrow Wed 28th Feb to rebuild the engine etc. Hopefully nothing else proves to be an issue. Replacing all the obvious as we go sourced from the boys at DMGRS Southampton which once again have proved to be really helpful with advice and delivery etc. So come Wed/ Thurs we will hopefully be back on the road but although I am the eternal optimist I am always prepared for the next saga in any story !
I will keep you posted, cheers
Rick'

Do you mean head gasket failure Rick? On one or both heads?

I'm glad to hear that progress is being made. It sounds like Russell is a real star travelling all the way down from Sevenoaks. :}

Simon

Simon here we are again.
Looks like both gaskets had broken down at the outside edges on the front head but inspecting the rear head which showed possible suspect area so had both heads skimmed which are done now and replacing all the parts relevant under Russell's expert guidance. The usual- spark plugs, water pump, coils all gaskets etc. etc.
So Russel is back next Mon10th March to complete and hopefully all in order and good to go with any luck back on the road Tues/Wed next week.
Another exercise completed which will be good for some considerable time !
Then it is the usual - to maintain, brakes, suspension and general all round yearly checks ready for the spring and onwards. A lot of travelling to do to catch up with friends and family who like most of us especially over the winter season with the flue / Covid etc lurking around have curtailed travel respecting each others privacy and not wanting to pass on germs.
So I will update at the completion of the job.
And again thanks for interest and advice gladly received
Cheers
Richard.

Hi again Simon and interested parties,
OK on the road again for approx' I week, top end rebuilt, replaced all required parts etc etc and all looking good. A couple of long trips planned and various visits into surrounding counties so will be putting some miles on the clock within next few months and so looking forward to it. Russell (Walsh)/ MGRover Solutions doing the business and I am soaking up any advice given along the way.

So after some considerable time deciding which way to proceed ie, do I spend K10/15 plus ? to get a decent vehicle to replace the '75 and the level of comfort etc or spend on the '75 a vehicle I have known for 10 years and I am familiar with or do I spend on the '75 and bring it up to a level that I will be happy with in the knowledge that after sorting out brakes, suspension, steering rack and other mechanicals and any upgrades then attend to the body issues such as replacing all the sills etc etc then have the inside leather etc professionally taken care of then complete the exterior with a respray and detailing so then at that stage I should be content with a really good '75 at last which will see me out !
So thanks again Simon and all who have followed this exercise and enjoy the coming summer months which allow us all to get out and about and enjoy our cars after all what is life about ? Happy motoring- :}
Cheers Rick'

Thanks for reporting back Rick. As you say you've known the car for ten years, how did both head gaskets become damaged?

I also see that you've just posted using a second user name (suffix -1). I believe that this is prohibited under club rules so I'd recommend that you contact a moderator to sort out whatever problem you are having with your original log-in name.

Simon

So what was the diagnosis then rick ? Did you have hydrolock ?, which prevented the engine turning over ? Caused by head gasket failure ... on both heads ?..or Have you driven through any deep water which caused this ... We had a member recently who experienced this lock up .. He had to renew the head in question , as it had a crack, which allowed coolant to fill the combustion chambers. The head could not be skimmed but only replaced. I hope all goes well for you ,but has the car overheated recently , or some other involvement with water ? Very rare that this issue has come about without some sort of an associated event. I hope all goes well for you if you do get the heads skimmed.... good luck ....;)

KV6 coolant in the V.
 

Well a long story looks as though may be nearing the end at last.
Hyrolock -yes. engine not turning over ended up having both heads skimmed, block appeared in order, replaced loads of parts relating to top end. engine started up again with no problem. Ran for a few days - approximately 50 miles then noticed wait for it -- coolant in the V. It was pressure tested which failed to produce any leaks ? Started again with the V dried out again and over approx' 300 miles shows sings of coolant in the V again but thank heavens no significant loss of coolant.Thought back to what Simon had impressed upon me after replacing the straight / curved pipes / "O" rings then to have the serrated clips fitted each end of the straight pipe mated up tight to the thermostat at one end and the water pump housing at the opposite end and pulled up tight , sadly it looks as though these clips were not fitted ! now I have a leak which manifests its self in the "V" again. Have to solve the matter though -
So other than that the car has not lost much coolant over the miles and all appears fine.
Will once again keep you posted.
Thanks again for all the interest and advice.
Cheers Rick'

Proof that the clips cause leakage not the 'stat housing
 

Thanks very much for posting details of what's happened Rick. Unhappily it's a real nuisance for you, but on the positive side it proves to anyone still in doubt that coolant leaks in the 'V' are not the result of a cracked thermostat seam.

Unfortunately you're going to have to get the plastic parts removed again in order to fit the serrated clips. :o I believe that Russell did the work for you so he obviously isn't aware of the necessity to fit these clips. If you let him know hopefully he will correct his mistake without further charge.

Thanks again for passing on your experience which will be valuable to all KV6 owners sooner or later.

Simon

HGF. issue.
 

Hi Simon and all interested in the follow up.
I have discussed the point of the serrated clips with Russell and as he is making tracks to rectify the situation he is of the opinion that an "O" ring on the straight pipe is the culprit which he will replace. We will sort out the issue of these clips at the time. Other than that the engine appears fine and the slight coolant loss is not an issue as it is small in quantity although has to be sorted once and for all. I am happy with the work done overall without question and am sure all will be sorted satisfactorily in the end. Another interesting point has reared its head - I have an non functioning speed' and an ABS light come up on the dash' but as the front o/side wheel had been removed to allow work on the tray etc looks like the cabling could be needing attention or a replacement sensor which I will attend to along with some other front end work to be done now. Involved with the plenums at present replacing some filters etc so it is all go with the usual maintenance issues. 3 weeks time car is going in for some paint touch up -scuffs blemishes etc and if all goes well detailing to finish with.
So in a moth or so all will be well heading into summer months.
Cheers for now and again thanks for the interest.

HGF issue.
 

Hi again all interested in this saga.
After posting that the engine top end rebuild was all in order except that there was evidence of slight coolant leak in the V which will be sorted shortly by Russell. I now have an oil leak which appears to be from the gearbox and not the engine but will not know for certain until Monday at the earliest when I just might be able to have my local garage get the car up on the ramp and look at the issue and assuming it is the gearbox give me a date for the fix as it is a gearbox issue and not a KV6 engine issue which would require such as Russell Walsh to sort it.
I may have to consider replacing the auto box but we will see.
Strangely I am now accepting that these things happen and am just eager to get all this work out of the way. Once again "eternal optimist" kicks in to play.
So sourcing the auto box is my weekend task.
Cheers Rick':mad:

Hang on a minute Rick! What makes you think this? Can you give some detail please?
What colour is the oil/fluid you've seen? Where exactly have you seen it?

Let's examine the evidence and try to identify the problem in detail rather than lurching into thoughts of replacing the gearbox! ;)

Simon

HGF 75 issue
 

Ok, further to my 1st conclusions I have had time and 2 beers to rationalise the situation. So now I have jacked her up and from what I have seen I have reason to believe there is an oil leak from wait for it -- from both cylinder heads ?! apart from a coolant leak in the "V" again. So as I said - a Scot' a capatalist and a mercenary human being to boot ! I am keeping a lid on the situation.

I am waiting to hear from Russell to come and access the situation and decide on the remedy and on a fix.

I will keep you posted and give ANY update as soon as possible.
NO conclusions as yet.

Yes- I jumped to the conclusion that it had to be a gearbox situation as the engine had been sorted !? Hinde site is a wonderful thing.
The "eternal optimist" - (boy you never stop learning.)
Cheers Rick'