2030 new fossil fuel cars roll back - 2035

[wraymond]

There's no doubt that there is serious conflict. That's just another term for a war (of sorts). We all know the very first casualty of a war is the truth. Never was that more evident.

The next casualty will be financial penalties for ICE owners making it unaffordable because of massively hiked costs of fuel/insurance/road tax. Oh, and of course, impossible annual MOT's.

In truth, it's load of cobblers. It's all about money.

[daveo138]

Originally Posted by wraymond

There's no doubt that there is serious conflict. That's just another term for a war (of sorts). We all know the very first casualty of a war is the truth. Never was that more evident.

The next casualty will be financial penalties for ICE owners making it unaffordable because of massively hiked costs of fuel/insurance/road tax. Oh, and of course, impossible annual MOT's.

In truth, it's load of cobblers. It's all about money.

I couldn’t agree more.

[Lancpudn]

Originally Posted by CDT Player

If the Government continues with this ridiculous ZEV mandate I can see manufacturers pulling out of the UK entirely. We've already seen Chrysler, Chevrolet, Daihatsu and Mitsubishi pulling out of the UK in recent years, I expect others may follow.

Legacy auto cant compete with Chinese auto makers, so Stellantis has joined forces with the Chinese giant auto maker Leapmotor in a JV. They will sell EV's in nine EU markets, including the UK.

I expect other Legacy auto makers will follow suit.

Selling these cheaper priced Chinese BEV's is one way they will be able to meet their ZEV targets & not pay heavy fines. They'll be in the UK next year. https://europe.autonews.com/cars-con...ero-readmore#/

[Lancpudn]

Originally Posted by wraymond

There's no doubt that there is serious conflict. That's just another term for a war (of sorts). We all know the very first casualty of a war is the truth. Never was that more evident.

The next casualty will be financial penalties for ICE owners making it unaffordable because of massively hiked costs of fuel/insurance/road tax. Oh, and of course, impossible annual MOT's.

In truth, it's load of cobblers. It's all about money.

Speaking of car tax! There is some finger pointing going on at presence at the UK's car taxation they say needs reforming to bring it inline with the EU's new car taxation policies
The UK is 24th out of 31 European countries. https://www.transportenvironment.org...polluting-cars

[wraymond]

These defiantly ambiguous PR reports again are designed to confuse what their authors believe are massed idiots. The 'group think' of the various governments behind the guff being presented as Armageddon is phoney and they know it. 24th? Only 7 to go then before the light dawns. I must be mistaken, I remember 'us' being not part of EU. It seems not quite.

The present slow and quiet recovery from the ridiculous 'woke' pandemic has started what might be a serious return to a proper perspective. Probably best not to hold one's breath though.

[daveo138]

I visited a customer site today - I can't say who or where - and I was told that I couldn't park within the confines of their 'secure' area, as my car is a hybrid.

No Hybrids or EVs allowed in.

[wraymond]

My dictionary has ‘hybrid’ as:

'Produced by interbreeding or cross-fertilisation. Derived from incongruous sources. A mongrel'.

It should also be listed as: 'of doubtful parentage'.

[SteveThackery]

1/ Do you think that climate change is happening?

2/ Do you think anthropogenic emissions of CO2 is causing it?

3/ Do you think that climate change is, overall, undesirable for the human race?

If you answer yes to all three questions, or even "probably", then action to avoid it seems logical.

I've read in this thread that because the UK produces only 1%-ish of global emissions, any action we take will be pointless because, on its own, it won't make any difference. The highest CO2 producers are China, the US, India, Russia, Japan, with Germany the highest in Europe. Logically, those are the countries that need to take action; until they do, anything the UK does won't help, and it would be at great cost. Thus goes the argument I've read from several people on this thread.

I think it is a questionable argument, though. Firstly, you could use that argument even if the big players HAVE taken action: our CO2 emissions are still too small to make a difference with or without the others, so logically the UK needn't bother about CO2 reduction. Hmmm... when you look at it like this, the argument seems less solid. I don't think anyone - even the archest sceptics in this thread - would advocate that the UK should be exempted from climate action on the grounds that it is too insignificant to make a difference.

Our world is split into countries, so naturally we think in terms of countries when it comes to making changes. But in reality CO2 knows no boundaries, and Chinese CO2 is the same stuff as British CO2. The air we breathe belongs to all inhabitants of the earth equally, so in one sense the climate crisis belongs to every one of us.

Forget about country borders; this is about 8 billion humans facing a problem, and that problem is caused in large part by about one third of those humans. So of course it is incumbent on the humans in that third to stop creating the problem. Any fair-minded person would agree that everyone in that "problematic" third shares equal responsibility for fixing the problem. Nobody can say "My contribution is too small to matter so I needn't bother" because millions of "too small to matter"s add up to something that does matter.

Looked at like this, there is no individual who can justifiably say "my contribution is too small to make a difference", and no other entity can either: no country, no multinational corporation, no corner shop. One third of the 8 billion is causing a problem, and if you are in that one third it doesn't matter whether you live in Russia, China, America or the UK, it is still your problem and your responsibility.

Thus goes my argument. But, dammit, I'm a selfish b a s t a r d and I love my cars and motorbikes, and I love motoring, and substantially cutting back on those would be one hell of a wrench.

[SCP440]

Getting on an aeroplane annualy for your holiday is probably going to create more pollution in a few hours than any of our cars do in a year yet I have not heard of any restrictions on air travel an if fact they seem to be doing there best to get us in more of them.
These aircraft burn huge amount of fuel in the upper atmosphere with no filters.

[Lancpudn]

The aviation industry is still exempt from paying tax on aviation fuel or VAT on tickets & from what I've read all European plane departures have to have a % of Sustainable Aviation Fuels (SAF)



"The EU has introduced a new proposal called ReFuelEU which requires all aircraft departing from an EU airport to uplift a fixed percentage of SAF. This percentage scales up over time and includes additional sub-targets for e-fuels. This initiative aims to boost the supply and demand for sustainable aviation fuels in the EU."



"The EU has put in place a carbon market for aviation called the Emission Trading System (ETS) which remains one of the few measures in place attempting to address the sector’s soaring emissions. Under the carbon market, airlines must pay for emissions on flights within the European Economic Area (EEA). However, airlines still get more than half of their pollution permits for free and all long-haul flights – which represent the bulk of aviation emissions – are not counted under the carbon market."


https://www.transportenvironment.org/topics/planes