1.8T Still not starting - Page 3

chris75 · 21st October 2009, 14:24

gary, reading through the thread , you haven't checked the valve timing yet then ? Think this needs doing if only to eliminate it ; check the timing and if the belt has become slack (failed tensioner ? ) .At least you haven't got the v6 belts to deal with !

T-Cut · 21st October 2009, 14:35

What caused the already vented crankcase to pressurise to such a degree that the hose blew off?

TC

Gary · 21st October 2009, 17:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by T-Cut

What caused the already vented crankcase to pressurise to such a degree that the hose blew off?

TC

I don’t know….Something to do with the turbo? This is the first car I have ever had with a turbo so don’t know anything about them. All suggestions welcome. I have just taken the top cam belt cover off and the two markers on the pulleys line up. I was hoping they were going to be one tooth out.

Howzatt · 22nd October 2009, 21:45

Sorry to read of your frustration Gary. Here's my long shot theory:

Low/no fuel in tank causing reduced fuel pressure, stuck/faulty gauge. Would this give the symptoms you're getting?

Regards

Gary · 22nd October 2009, 22:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Howzatt

Sorry to read of your frustration Gary. Here's my long shot theory:

Low/no fuel in tank causing reduced fuel pressure, stuck/faulty gauge. Would this give the symptoms you're getting?

Regards

No Simon there is fuel in the tank for sure. I wish it was something as simple as that. In fact it probably is simple it’s just a case of working out what it is.

T-Cut · 22nd October 2009, 22:50

Maybe you should review in detail what took place when the power loss occured. I think you mentioned a lot of noise and a pressurisation sufficient to blow the vent hose off the cam cover. Can you set it all out as a second by second series of effects? What speed were your going, how far it ran before stopping completely, etc.

TC

Gary · 23rd October 2009, 08:55

Okay - Thanks guys for your interest............lets go back to the beginning!

1.The car was running fine apart from an very occasional misfire under load (maybe every three or four days – my journey to work and back is 100 mile round trip)

2. I gave the car a service – changed oil and air filter, oil and plugs. (It has 70000 on the clock)

3. After the service i started the car and let it idle for a few minutes all the warning lights went out on the dash and it sounded very nice.

4. I took the car for a test drive and it was going fine until i started to put it under load going up a steep hill when it started to make a pinking type of noise and misfire. I managed to get the car to the top of the hill turn round and get it home but there was a loss of power. The car stopped and I have never been able to get it going again. There was some blue smoke come out of the back but I think this is where the oil pumped out of the breather pipe (which had blown off) over the exhaust. There is oil all over the engine and the only place I can see that it could have come from is the breather pipe.

5. I have changed fuel filter and O rings, cam and crank sensor and it still doesn’t start.

6.Compressions are (on a low battery at the time) all 75 PSI. There is a good spark at all four plugs. And when I disconnect the fuel line at the engine fuel sprays out under pressure. I have checked the cam alignment between the two cams pulleys and that is Ok although I have not checked this with the alignment on the bottom pulley. I have use a fault code reader and it comes back as misfire on No 4 cylinder but nothing else.

By all accounts it should start or at least cough and splutter but it does nothing.

Aitchbee · 23rd October 2009, 09:36

Gary,

Your symptoms remind me of what happened with an old Audi 80 I owned,back in the 80`s.The cambelt HAD slipped,and when you say you havent yet checked your crankshaft alignment,I would have a look.Mine had slipped on the crankshaft(due to extreme cold at the time)and when you think about it,it`s more likely to slip there as it turns at twice the revs.This ,to me, would explain why your compressions are down.(?)
Only a theory,but as I say,it can happen.

My initial thoughts were that you had disturbed something while doing your servicing(always the first thing to check!!),or that there was a massive air-intake leak,like a split rubber hose. - but neither would explain the low compression.

At 70 k,and over 6 years old,has your cambelt been changed?
BTW,when I laid out the Audi belt against a new one,I swear it was an inch longer!- and my local garage,in Holland at the time,said it wasn`t possible for it to slip,but it had.I remember it only started with a tow and then ran extremely rough,had a few people head-scratching for a while.

Good Luck!

Aitchbee

kevin · 23rd October 2009, 13:30

I would look at the alignment on the bottom pulley and cams.
just to make sure they are all in the right place. as it its jumped no the bottom pulley you would have open vales on all cly. giving you the same low Compressionon on all of them.

as you have fuel, spark and air. if it is lecking on compression. it would not start, or would miss fire. you have or had both.

T-Cut · 23rd October 2009, 22:42

I still can't fathom why the crankcase pressurised enough to blow off the vent hose. The turbo isn't connected to the vent system so I don't think it's relevant. The blue smoke sounds to me like burning oil smoke coming out of the exhaust. The only way I can all see this happening is via the piston rings or blown turbo oil seals. I think if the cam belt slips a tooth the engine will be badly damaged.

TC

21st October 2009, 14:24	#21
chris75 same car since 2005 2001 Rover 75 2.0 v6 Connoisseur Saloon Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Ellesmere Port , Cheshire Posts: 3,818 Thanks: 379 Thanked 549 Times in 466 Posts	gary, reading through the thread , you haven't checked the valve timing yet then ? Think this needs doing if only to eliminate it ; check the timing and if the belt has become slack (failed tensioner ? ) .At least you haven't got the v6 belts to deal with ! __________________ Who said it was simples ?

21st October 2009, 14:35	#22
T-Cut This is my second home Rover75 and Mreg Corsa. Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Sumweer onat mote o'dust (Sagin) Posts: 21,754 Thanks: 341 Thanked 3,660 Times in 2,924 Posts	What caused the already vented crankcase to pressurise to such a degree that the hose blew off? TC

22nd October 2009, 21:45	#24
Howzatt Newbie Rover 75 1.8T Club SE Saloon 2003 Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Newark Posts: 22 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Sorry to read of your frustration Gary. Here's my long shot theory: Low/no fuel in tank causing reduced fuel pressure, stuck/faulty gauge. Would this give the symptoms you're getting? Regards

22nd October 2009, 22:50	#26
T-Cut This is my second home Rover75 and Mreg Corsa. Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Sumweer onat mote o'dust (Sagin) Posts: 21,754 Thanks: 341 Thanked 3,660 Times in 2,924 Posts	Maybe you should review in detail what took place when the power loss occured. I think you mentioned a lot of noise and a pressurisation sufficient to blow the vent hose off the cam cover. Can you set it all out as a second by second series of effects? What speed were your going, how far it ran before stopping completely, etc. TC

23rd October 2009, 08:55	#27
Gary Avid contributor Rover 75 1.8T Club - Mitsubishi GTO Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Weymouth Posts: 107 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Okay - Thanks guys for your interest............lets go back to the beginning! 1.The car was running fine apart from an very occasional misfire under load (maybe every three or four days – my journey to work and back is 100 mile round trip) 2. I gave the car a service – changed oil and air filter, oil and plugs. (It has 70000 on the clock) 3. After the service i started the car and let it idle for a few minutes all the warning lights went out on the dash and it sounded very nice. 4. I took the car for a test drive and it was going fine until i started to put it under load going up a steep hill when it started to make a pinking type of noise and misfire. I managed to get the car to the top of the hill turn round and get it home but there was a loss of power. The car stopped and I have never been able to get it going again. There was some blue smoke come out of the back but I think this is where the oil pumped out of the breather pipe (which had blown off) over the exhaust. There is oil all over the engine and the only place I can see that it could have come from is the breather pipe. 5. I have changed fuel filter and O rings, cam and crank sensor and it still doesn’t start. 6.Compressions are (on a low battery at the time) all 75 PSI. There is a good spark at all four plugs. And when I disconnect the fuel line at the engine fuel sprays out under pressure. I have checked the cam alignment between the two cams pulleys and that is Ok although I have not checked this with the alignment on the bottom pulley. I have use a fault code reader and it comes back as misfire on No 4 cylinder but nothing else. By all accounts it should start or at least cough and splutter but it does nothing.

23rd October 2009, 09:36	#28
Aitchbee Newbie Rover 75 1.8t Club SE Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: DUMFRIES Posts: 24 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Gary, Your symptoms remind me of what happened with an old Audi 80 I owned,back in the 80`s.The cambelt HAD slipped,and when you say you havent yet checked your crankshaft alignment,I would have a look.Mine had slipped on the crankshaft(due to extreme cold at the time)and when you think about it,it`s more likely to slip there as it turns at twice the revs.This ,to me, would explain why your compressions are down.(?) Only a theory,but as I say,it can happen. My initial thoughts were that you had disturbed something while doing your servicing(always the first thing to check!!),or that there was a massive air-intake leak,like a split rubber hose. - but neither would explain the low compression. At 70 k,and over 6 years old,has your cambelt been changed? BTW,when I laid out the Audi belt against a new one,I swear it was an inch longer!- and my local garage,in Holland at the time,said it wasn`t possible for it to slip,but it had.I remember it only started with a tow and then ran extremely rough,had a few people head-scratching for a while. Good Luck! Aitchbee

23rd October 2009, 13:30	#29
kevin I really should get out more....... ford focus ghia Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: herts Posts: 2,553 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	I would look at the alignment on the bottom pulley and cams. just to make sure they are all in the right place. as it its jumped no the bottom pulley you would have open vales on all cly. giving you the same low Compressionon on all of them. as you have fuel, spark and air. if it is lecking on compression. it would not start, or would miss fire. you have or had both.

23rd October 2009, 22:42	#30
T-Cut This is my second home Rover75 and Mreg Corsa. Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Sumweer onat mote o'dust (Sagin) Posts: 21,754 Thanks: 341 Thanked 3,660 Times in 2,924 Posts	I still can't fathom why the crankcase pressurised enough to blow off the vent hose. The turbo isn't connected to the vent system so I don't think it's relevant. The blue smoke sounds to me like burning oil smoke coming out of the exhaust. The only way I can all see this happening is via the piston rings or blown turbo oil seals. I think if the cam belt slips a tooth the engine will be badly damaged. TC