Strange clutch issues

Westonboy · 26th March 2017, 18:29

I took my delightful wife to New Brighton today, intending to spare no expense on a Wetherspoons lunch. On arrival on the prom, I espied a parking space and went to engage reverse, but there was no way it was going to engage. I then tried first, but to no avail. I then stopped the engine, engaged reverse and started the engine with the clutch depressed, I was able to release the clutch and the bite was were it always is. I then tried engaging gear with the engine running and depressing the clutch but not a hope. I rang Brittania rescue and we were trailered home. On investigation the master cylinder was empty, so I assumed the dreaded slave had died, but the pedal felt just as firm as ever, I then started the engine and even with an empty master cylinder the gears. are now engaging and the clutch feels perfect. there is no sign of leakage under the clutch pedal and none on the undertray, I have owned the car 5 years and never checked the fluid before today.

FrenchMike · 26th March 2017, 19:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Westonboy

I took my delightful wife to New Brighton today, intending to spare no expense on a Wetherspoons lunch. On arrival on the prom, I espied a parking space and went to engage reverse, but there was no way it was going to engage. I then tried first, but to no avail. I then stopped the engine, engaged reverse and started the engine with the clutch depressed, I was able to release the clutch and the bite was were it always is. I then tried engaging gear with the engine running and depressing the clutch but not a hope. I rang Brittania rescue and we were trailered home. On investigation the master cylinder was empty, so I assumed the dreaded slave had died, but the pedal felt just as firm as ever, I then started the engine and even with an empty master cylinder the gears. are now engaging and the clutch feels perfect. there is no sign of leakage under the clutch pedal and none on the undertray, I have owned the car 5 years and never checked the fluid before today.

Hi, how do you know the master was empty ? don't forget there is a "condom"
in the reservoir

Could be a momentary "dirty valve syndrome"

Mike

Westonboy · 26th March 2017, 19:19

Hi Mike, I assumed it was empty because after I removed the condom my finger was dry as far as I could get it in.

mh007 · 26th March 2017, 19:30

In the first instance, I'd be inclined to topup the master cylinder, bleed the clutch & monitor it.

FrenchMike · 26th March 2017, 19:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Westonboy

Hi Mike, I assumed it was empty because after I removed the condom my finger was dry as far as I could get it in.

Hum,strange it can work without fluid ?
the whole circuit contains around 50 ml

Check Under the bell housing if dried :

COLVERT · 26th March 2017, 20:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrenchMike

Hum,strange it can work without fluid ?
the whole circuit contains around 50 ml

Check Under the bell if dried :

Well it can't work if it is empty. It must have just had enough to to fill the master cylinder body and no more.

The fluid has gone somewhere. It boils down to a search for the tell tale marks now.

On the master cylinder operating piston or dripping out of the gearbox bell housing.----

Westonboy · 26th March 2017, 20:44

I am most grateful for all the help I have received but am still not sure when is a master cylinder empty, at what level should the fluid be when the condom is removed, on my car today it was at the bottom of the cylinder.

FrenchMike · 27th March 2017, 07:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Westonboy

I am most grateful for all the help I have received but am still not sure when is a master cylinder empty, at what level should the fluid be when the condom is removed, on my car today it was at the bottom of the cylinder.

Alan, i just have a look at my pre filled spare . level is 3 cm lower the rim
.condom removed....

Mike

Westonboy · 27th March 2017, 09:10

Well folks used the car this morning, absolutely perfect, what I took to be an empty master was actually according to the previous post at the correct level, about an inch and a quarter below the rim. So for reasons unknown, yesterday I could not engage gear at all. at no point did the clutch pedal feel anything but normal, a complete mystery, I will give the clutch fluid a flush and hope for no more problems, thaks for all the advice, especially French Mike who has been brilliant.

mh007 · 27th March 2017, 15:31

I wonder wether the master cylinder allowed fluid back past the piston?

26th March 2017, 18:29	#1
Westonboy Posted a thing or two Honda Jazz Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Llangollen Posts: 1,025 Thanks: 301 Thanked 344 Times in 158 Posts	Strange clutch issues I took my delightful wife to New Brighton today, intending to spare no expense on a Wetherspoons lunch. On arrival on the prom, I espied a parking space and went to engage reverse, but there was no way it was going to engage. I then tried first, but to no avail. I then stopped the engine, engaged reverse and started the engine with the clutch depressed, I was able to release the clutch and the bite was were it always is. I then tried engaging gear with the engine running and depressing the clutch but not a hope. I rang Brittania rescue and we were trailered home. On investigation the master cylinder was empty, so I assumed the dreaded slave had died, but the pedal felt just as firm as ever, I then started the engine and even with an empty master cylinder the gears. are now engaging and the clutch feels perfect. there is no sign of leakage under the clutch pedal and none on the undertray, I have owned the car 5 years and never checked the fluid before today.

26th March 2017, 19:19	#3
Westonboy Posted a thing or two Honda Jazz Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Llangollen Posts: 1,025 Thanks: 301 Thanked 344 Times in 158 Posts	Hi Mike, I assumed it was empty because after I removed the condom my finger was dry as far as I could get it in.

26th March 2017, 19:30	#4
mh007 This is my second home MG ZT260 SE, MG ZT190+, MG ZTT 160, R75 Conn SE 2.0, R75 Conn SE 2.5 X 3, R75 Club SE 1.8, P5B Coupe Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Keynsham, Bristol Posts: 4,211 Thanks: 65 Thanked 635 Times in 499 Posts	In the first instance, I'd be inclined to topup the master cylinder, bleed the clutch & monitor it.

26th March 2017, 20:44	#7
Westonboy Posted a thing or two Honda Jazz Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Llangollen Posts: 1,025 Thanks: 301 Thanked 344 Times in 158 Posts	I am most grateful for all the help I have received but am still not sure when is a master cylinder empty, at what level should the fluid be when the condom is removed, on my car today it was at the bottom of the cylinder.

27th March 2017, 09:10	#9
Westonboy Posted a thing or two Honda Jazz Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Llangollen Posts: 1,025 Thanks: 301 Thanked 344 Times in 158 Posts	Well folks used the car this morning, absolutely perfect, what I took to be an empty master was actually according to the previous post at the correct level, about an inch and a quarter below the rim. So for reasons unknown, yesterday I could not engage gear at all. at no point did the clutch pedal feel anything but normal, a complete mystery, I will give the clutch fluid a flush and hope for no more problems, thaks for all the advice, especially French Mike who has been brilliant.

27th March 2017, 15:31	#10
mh007 This is my second home MG ZT260 SE, MG ZT190+, MG ZTT 160, R75 Conn SE 2.0, R75 Conn SE 2.5 X 3, R75 Club SE 1.8, P5B Coupe Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Keynsham, Bristol Posts: 4,211 Thanks: 65 Thanked 635 Times in 499 Posts	I wonder wether the master cylinder allowed fluid back past the piston?