V6 Timing Belt Replacement Advice

[jr.ewing*]

How much is it for sale? 40k mileage is low for a zt

[zefrench]

Am I the only that had worn out bearings in his tensioner pulley and idler pulley at 6 years / 50000km even thought the belt still looked descent?

After seeing those pulleys, I am not ever skipping the time intervals.

[Dubya]

When I purchased my 190 it had 83K on the clock, the dealer informed me that the recommended interval was 90K and that as there was no record of the belts being replaced they would need to be changed at that point. There was, however, no mention of replacing them at 6yrs if that mileage had not been achieved...

When 90K was reached I replaced the belts; the rear belts looked perfect but there was definite deteriation of the front belt.

However.....

The tensioner bearing was as rough as the proverbial badger's behind, and the plastic idler pulley was full of cracks!

Reading about other member's experiences on this fine forum suggests bearing / idler pulley collapse is a common cause of timing belt failure, and following my personal experience I have no reason to argue with this. I definitely dodged the bullet with mine!

Some people may say their timing belts do not need to be replaced due to reason X, Y or Z. Some people will replace them earlier than recommended for peace of mind. Ultimately its their car and their choice. But surely you cannot be 100% sure of the condition without inspection and examination, and considering the lengths you need to go to on the KV6 to do this properly you may as well replace them while you are there!

In my opinion (and it is MY opinion), ignoring the manufacturer's recommended replacement interval is akin to a ticking timebomb. Do so at your peril!

[kaiser]

I think this is a case of belts and races.
If the car is important to you, change the belts and all rotating goodies in there.

The engine should have been made with chains, but since it wasn't, we have to change the belts.

It is always a case of rather too soon than too late, but that said, these engines are not bad on belts.

My wife had a BMW 316, with belts with 40000km lifespan. That belt broke well before in one case. We were tempted to change every 30000km after that, but as far as I remember, we managed to find a wider belt, and could relax a bit.

[SD1too]

Originally Posted by Dorset Bob

In can see no logic in your revised schedule and am unsure of what expertise you have drawn on, as it goes against all sound engineering practices.

On the contrary, "sound engineering practices" are at the basis of my position on this. Note that MGR also specifies replacement of the pollen and air filters after two years and the sparking plugs after four. I inspect mine and make a judgement based upon their condition and any apparent fault symptoms. That is "sound engineering practice". Blindly following what someone else tells you to do (especially when there is money to be made) is not. But if you don't see the logic in that reasoning, that is fine by me.

Originally Posted by xsport

simon, if you do decide to do the belts kit replacement yourself can you have a look to see what make (if poss to read/see ) the belt was.also the bearing manufacturer and water pump if any identification ?

I will be doing the work myself Stefan and yes, I will look for the identification you describe. However, at my current mileage, this thread will be long forgotten by the time I reach 90,000 miles.

You emphasise the quality of parts Stefan. The quality of aftermarket workmanship is equally important but it's always assumed that this is faultless. There have been many threads where people go to any lengths to avoid using the special service tools for belt replacement. That is contrary to the "manufacturer's guidelines" as well but very seldom considered as a contributory factor to belt failure.

Originally Posted by jn12

Do you still plan on changing your belts this year?

For a variety of reasons John, I doubt that it will be this year, but I will take photographs of the parts removed but it won't make any difference to people's firm beliefs.

I have attached a picture of a original belt that had done approx 100k on a 2002 car upon inspection in 2011. Needless to say it looked desperate for replacement.

Yes, that's 10,000 miles over the specified lifespan so perhaps not surprising, and inconclusive so far as the time limit theory is concerned. I changed the timing belt on our other car last year when it was thirteen years old (much older than your example). This belt had none of the cracks which yours displays. It looked, and was, in perfect condition.

Originally Posted by marinabrian

... Simon will be impressed with my latest tabloid headline ..

Sadly not Brian. I will be impressed though when you show some consistency and censure your friend and fellow trader Big Russ for also, according to you, having his head in the sand and not being a competent car repairer. We've all noticed how you don't direct your venom at Russell (Lord of Hog) either, who has also bravely supported the common sense view. This is a personal vendetta against me isn't it Brian. Would you like to explain your reasons for this please?

Simon

[marinabrian]

Originally Posted by SD1too

Sadly not Brian. I will be impressed though when you show some consistency and censure your friend and fellow trader Big Russ for also, according to you, having his head in the sand and not being a competent car repairer. We've all noticed how you don't direct your venom at Russell (Lord of Hog) either, who has also bravely supported the common sense view. This is a personal vendetta against me isn't it Brian. Would you like to explain your reasons for this please?

Simon

A personal vendetta Simon, now who is feeling insecure? you flatter yourself both with your engineering prowess at inspection and NDT of components, while poo pooing the real life scenarios which have been faced and dealt with countless times by many motor engineers.

The truth of the matter is simple, timing belts can and indeed do snap, even on KV6 engines and the consequences are not nice, sometimes with no apparent underlying cause, other that failure of the belt

So why not get your spanners out and perform one of the most important pre planned preventative maintenance jobs on your car.

Nobody would be agreeing with you if you left the same oil in your car's engine for seven and a half years because you only do two thousand miles per annum, the principle is exactly the same

Brian

[murphyv310]

Surely Simon you read my post 're what the belt manufacturer Gates told me? I'd rather listen to them than take an uneducated guess about a belts timed life. You cannot compare a pollen filter or spark plugs as if one of the plugs fail you'll not need to fit new valves, get the head repaired or fit pistons and liners. Your choice to leave it but not good advice to others.

[EastPete]

Originally Posted by SD1too

On the contrary, "sound engineering practices" are at the basis of my position on this. Note that MGR also specifies replacement of the pollen and air filters after two years and the sparking plugs after four. I inspect mine and make a judgement based upon their condition and any apparent fault symptoms. That is "sound engineering practice". Blindly following what someone else tells you to do (especially when there is money to be made) is not. But if you don't see the logic in that reasoning, that is fine by me.

I will be doing the work myself Stefan and yes, I will look for the identification you describe. However, at my current mileage, this thread will be long forgotten by the time I reach 90,000 miles.

You emphasise the quality of parts Stefan. The quality of aftermarket workmanship is equally important but it's always assumed that this is faultless. There have been many threads where people go to any lengths to avoid using the special service tools for belt replacement. That is contrary to the "manufacturer's guidelines" as well but very seldom considered as a contributory factor to belt failure.

For a variety of reasons John, I doubt that it will be this year, but I will take photographs of the parts removed but it won't make any difference to people's firm beliefs.

Yes, that's 10,000 miles over the specified lifespan so perhaps not surprising, and inconclusive so far as the time limit theory is concerned. I changed the timing belt on our other car last year when it was thirteen years old (much older than your example). This belt had none of the cracks which yours displays. It looked, and was, in perfect condition.

Sadly not Brian. I will be impressed though when you show some consistency and censure your friend and fellow trader Big Russ for also, according to you, having his head in the sand and not being a competent car repairer. We've all noticed how you don't direct your venom at Russell (Lord of Hog) either, who has also bravely supported the common sense view. This is a personal vendetta against me isn't it Brian. Would you like to explain your reasons for this please?

Simon

There is never a completely right or wrong way to do things on these cars- all approaches have their pros and cons. This forum provides a platform for people to suggest their preferred methods, then each member can make up his or her own mind on how to do things, based on what they have read. I have often posted suggested methods for jobs on here, only for someone to come along and say (Harry Enfield voice) - 'I don't think you want to do that', but I do not take it personally. I accept there is more than one way to skin a cat.

I have no experience/expertise on KV6 belt changes, so will not offer an opinion on this matter.

Let's all enjoy the holiday weekend and whatever we choose to get up to

Cheers

Pete

[MSS]

Originally Posted by EastPete

For gawd's sake Simon, give it a break will you, and put your toys back in the pram !! Brian has made his views known, and you happen to disagree - leave it at that. Watching this online playground brawl is getting a bit tedious.

................

Pete

Come now, there's no need for that tone.

I have drawn swords with Brian for similar reasons in the past - not because we had a opposing views, but because of the overdramatization in expressing the opposing viewpoint. In the end, Brian and I agreed to step back and take a breath.

I suspect that Simon is having the same issue with Brian that I did - Simon takes a classic approach to matters - analytical, judicious and characterictic of traditional "Britishness". Whereas Brian's approach, even allowing for his northern locality, is shall we say less British.

Personally, I can relate to both, as the former is more endearing and the latter more entertaining/fun.

I think this matter needs to be allowed to be settled between Simon and Brian to a satisfactory conclusion without the "rest of the clan" diving in.

I can rationalize and support Simon's approach, even though I tend to replace parts earlier than manufacturer's specifications in most cases as a matter of course.

[EastPete]

Originally Posted by mss

Come now, there's no need for that tone.

I have drawn swords with Brian for similar reasons in the past - not because we had a opposing views, but because of the overdramatization in expressing the opposing viewpoint. In the end, Brian and I agreed to step back and take a breath.

I suspect that Simon is having the same issue with Brian that I did - Simon takes a classic approach to matters - analytical, judicious and characterictic of traditional "Britishness". Whereas Brian's approach, even allowing for his northern locality, is shall we say less British.

Personally, I can relate to both, as the former is more endearing and the latter more entertaining/fun.

I think this matter needs to be allowed to be settled between Simon and Brian to a satisfactory conclusion without the "rest of the clan" diving in.

I can rationalize and support Simon's approach, even though I tend to replace parts earlier than manufacturer's specifications in most cases as a matter of course.

Fair point - post amended. I'll offer no further comment !
Cheers

Pete