Any Plastic Bonding Knowledge Out There

Lovel · 25th March 2017, 19:55

I am planning to re-bond the top of my coolant tank back to the body after having fitted a coolant level sensor. The material of the tank is PA66-GF30.

I have reviewed a number of Loctite products and would like to know if you have any advise on the subject?

Loctite 4090 seems to be suitable candidate, being moisture resistant and rated for 150degC.
http://www.henkel-adhesives.co.uk/uk...090_UK_Web.pdf

Also recommended is SF 7063 cleaner before applying the glue.

I am planning to try and clamp the joint all around and leave for many hours.

If anyone has any thoughts on this, I would be pleased to hear from you.

marinabrian · 25th March 2017, 19:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lovel

I am planning to re-bond the top of my coolant tank back to the body after having fitted a coolant level sensor. The material of the tank is PA66-GF30.

I have reviewed a number of Loctite products and would like to know if you have any advise on the subject?

Loctite 4090 seems to be suitable candidate, being moisture resistant and rated for 150degC.
http://www.henkel-adhesives.co.uk/uk...090_UK_Web.pdf

Also recommended is SF 7063 cleaner before applying the glue.

I am planning to try and clamp the joint all around and leave for many hours.

If anyone has any thoughts on this, I would be pleased to hear from you.

Trikey is your man for this sort of thing Gary

do you have a picture of this mod?

Brian

marinabrian · 25th March 2017, 20:05

The spec sheets for ultramid A doesn't mention bonding properties

Lovel · 25th March 2017, 20:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by marinabrian

The spec sheets for ultramid A doesn't mention bonding properties

OK have sent Andy a message to see if he will be able to comment.

T-Cut · 25th March 2017, 20:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by marinabrian

The spec sheets for ultramid A doesn't mention bonding properties

That's because it isn't used as an adhesive, it's a glass filled polyamide (nylon66) plastic for injection moulding. It's a solid melting at 260C or so and probably comes as small beads/prills. It's basically the stuff that the header tanks are made from. But the supplier will know the best stuff to bond it with. Presumably what the two halves of the tank are bonded with.

EDIT
Loctite Adhesives Guide http://na.henkel-adhesives.com/us/co...uide_v6_LR.pdf
See pages 36-37 for glass filled nylon66

TC

trikey · 25th March 2017, 23:35

Ill pm you when mr jack and daniel are not ruling my thoughtslol.....

darwins · 26th March 2017, 11:01

i was going to recomend JB Weld, but when i was looking i found they have a new range of putty too, and their 'waterweld' looks like it may be what you need http://www.jb-weld.co.uk/j-b-weld-ep...ld-epoxy-putty

Lovel · 27th March 2017, 20:50

Have spoken with Trikey (Andy) about the manufacturing process for joining the top of the tank. He advised that the tank would have been ultrasonically joined in a process involving heat too. Bonding the tank halves he believes may be a challenge with the material in nylon.

I will go ahead and order some of the Loctite 4090 hybrid adhesive which has something like 4,000lbs yield according to the brochure.

Have made up some fittings using rubber hoses and a Schrader valve which allowed me to test a complete tank tonight to 100kpa (14.5psi) and 140kpa (20.3psi), the pressure was determined by the pressure caps I had available which started to vent at the rated pressures on the cap.

Once I bond the tank I'll pressure test to 140kpa after a few days curing, perhaps after a heat in an oven. I am contemplating fitting spring steel c-clips around the circumference if only I can find some to fit which is nice and neat, this will help back up the adhesive long term.

The surface area of the tank lid is in the region of 29in2.
20.3-14.7(psia)=5.6psi
5.6 x 29 = 162lbs of force acting on joint, which is well within the spec of the bonding agent of up to 4,000lbs.

rrobson · 27th March 2017, 21:28

Don't forget you'll need to add some heat and coolant into the mix, otherwise your not recreating the operating environment. Heat and time can have great effects on things....

murphyv310 · 27th March 2017, 21:33

Hi.
The header I had that had the sensor fitted was done in a different way. The section under the tank was removed not the two halves. The sensor was fitted from underneath and a new small section bonded in, having a smaller surface area there would be far less stresses.
The bonding agent looked like epoxy but certainly not domestic Araldite. While it was in the car there was no issues with leaks.

25th March 2017, 19:55	#1
Lovel I really should get out more....... P6B, L550, Imp, F56, Commando Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Aberdeenshire Posts: 2,886 Thanks: 352 Thanked 677 Times in 440 Posts	Any Plastic Bonding Knowledge Out There I am planning to re-bond the top of my coolant tank back to the body after having fitted a coolant level sensor. The material of the tank is PA66-GF30. I have reviewed a number of Loctite products and would like to know if you have any advise on the subject? Loctite 4090 seems to be suitable candidate, being moisture resistant and rated for 150degC. http://www.henkel-adhesives.co.uk/uk...090_UK_Web.pdf Also recommended is SF 7063 cleaner before applying the glue. I am planning to try and clamp the joint all around and leave for many hours. If anyone has any thoughts on this, I would be pleased to hear from you.

25th March 2017, 23:35	#6
trikey Premium Trader Rover 75 Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Devon Posts: 33,769 Thanks: 8,837 Thanked 14,831 Times in 8,030 Posts	Ill pm you when mr jack and daniel are not ruling my thoughtslol..... __________________ Lest we forget..

27th March 2017, 21:28	#9
rrobson I really should get out more....... 75 tourer cdti, MG ZS 180, nissan terrano & 1.8t rover 25 Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Pontefract Posts: 2,643 Thanks: 17 Thanked 295 Times in 218 Posts	Don't forget you'll need to add some heat and coolant into the mix, otherwise your not recreating the operating environment. Heat and time can have great effects on things.... __________________ How to view a car - everything you need to help you inspect a used car VIS motor tester avalible to local members Injector removal tool and auto gearbox pressure tester now available

27th March 2017, 21:33	#10
murphyv310 This is my second home Hyundai i10 998cc Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Kilmarnock Posts: 6,602 Thanks: 2,088 Thanked 2,298 Times in 1,349 Posts	Hi. The header I had that had the sensor fitted was done in a different way. The section under the tank was removed not the two halves. The sensor was fitted from underneath and a new small section bonded in, having a smaller surface area there would be far less stresses. The bonding agent looked like epoxy but certainly not domestic Araldite. While it was in the car there was no issues with leaks. __________________ Cheers from Trevor MM0KJJ

26th March 2017, 11:01	#7
darwins Newbie MG ZT-T Join Date: Mar 2017 Location: Walton-on-Thames, surrey Posts: 18 Thanks: 1 Thanked 11 Times in 6 Posts	i was going to recomend JB Weld, but when i was looking i found they have a new range of putty too, and their 'waterweld' looks like it may be what you need http://www.jb-weld.co.uk/j-b-weld-ep...ld-epoxy-putty

27th March 2017, 20:50	#8
Lovel I really should get out more....... P6B, L550, Imp, F56, Commando Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Aberdeenshire Posts: 2,886 Thanks: 352 Thanked 677 Times in 440 Posts	Have spoken with Trikey (Andy) about the manufacturing process for joining the top of the tank. He advised that the tank would have been ultrasonically joined in a process involving heat too. Bonding the tank halves he believes may be a challenge with the material in nylon. I will go ahead and order some of the Loctite 4090 hybrid adhesive which has something like 4,000lbs yield according to the brochure. Have made up some fittings using rubber hoses and a Schrader valve which allowed me to test a complete tank tonight to 100kpa (14.5psi) and 140kpa (20.3psi), the pressure was determined by the pressure caps I had available which started to vent at the rated pressures on the cap. Once I bond the tank I'll pressure test to 140kpa after a few days curing, perhaps after a heat in an oven. I am contemplating fitting spring steel c-clips around the circumference if only I can find some to fit which is nice and neat, this will help back up the adhesive long term. The surface area of the tank lid is in the region of 29in2. 20.3-14.7(psia)=5.6psi 5.6 x 29 = 162lbs of force acting on joint, which is well within the spec of the bonding agent of up to 4,000lbs.