Who killed the Electric Car

[The Yellow Peril]

If like me you are wondering why we are still driving round in vehicles powered by fossil fuels, the design of which has remained virtually unaltered since it’s invention in the late 1800’s, when in every other aspect of our lives technological advancements and changes have occurred with almost alarming frequency, I would recommend you watch the DVD "Who Killed the Electric Car?" http://www.amazon.co.uk/Who-Killed-E...8519632&sr=8-1

This has to be without doubt the most disturbing DVD documentary I've watched since "An Inconvenient Truth".

It records how GM, at the behest of the Californian air quality commission complied with the zero emission regulations and developed the EV1, a two seater sports car with a top speed approaching 100 mph, faster acceleration than a standard petrol saloon car and a 100 mile trip distance on a full battery charge. Other companies followed suit producing a range of vehicles including Pick-up trucks, saloon cars and
Electric hybrids like the Prius.

All I can tell you is that GM and the others including Ford, Toyota and Honda bowed to the pressure of the oil companies to destroy the electric car industry and promote Hydrogen as the fuel of the future.

If any member wishes to borrow this DVD I'll be happy to pass it around. It shows how governments colluded with the oil industry (lets not forget the Bush family are oil company owners, and many of Bush's aides were/are ex CEO's of oil or automotive companies) to further undermine the achievements of electric power, resulting in the continuing reliance on fossil fuels and the companies that provide it.

It really is a must see

Andrew

[raykay]

The stumbling block for electric vehicles is the battery, the technology for the car itself is there. Although battery technology has increased a lot since the lead-acid battery, it still restricts the range of electric cars. In the example above, the range is 100 miles, then a re-charge is necessary. OK for a car used as a local runabout, not so suitable for regular journeys.
If the market is not there, there is no point in manufacturers producing a car that doesn't sell. Once the battery problem is overcome, things may well change.

[The Yellow Peril]

Originally Posted by raykay

The stumbling block for electric vehicles is the battery, the technology for the car itself is there. Although battery technology has increased a lot since the lead-acid battery, it still restricts the range of electric cars. In the example above, the range is 100 miles, then a re-charge is necessary. OK for a car used as a local runabout, not so suitable for regular journeys.
If the market is not there, there is no point in manufacturers producing a car that doesn't sell. Once the battery problem is overcome, things may well change.

Good point, although the battery makers featured in the documentary said that GM wouldn't take thier NimH Nicle Metal Hydride batteries, preferring to use lead-acid batteries. NimH apart from weighing less have a greater capacity, therefore a longer journey capaciltiy and a faster recharge time.

Another bit of research showed the "average" journey to be only 29 miles. In other words the daily commute. My daily commute just happens to be exactly 29 miles each way. I'd happily drive an EV if there was such a thing available.

If we used EV's for the city/commute there would be a huge reduction in pollution. For longer journeys a hybrid petrol/battery ala the Prius would be the solution.


The market is there, but no one is meeting the demand. You've only got to look at the price of fuel, the interest in global warming and the concerns about pollution to understand that this is something that we ignore at out peril.

[Tatts]

Cost. What would the cost be of an all electric car -v- a petrol car though. Quite a bit more I'd wager. The Prius is £19k.

Running Costs. The way electricity prices are rising, would it be ecconomically viable to use one, purely on a financial viewpoint? Petrol & diesel engines are becoming so efficient nowadays, makes me wonder.

I don't think battery cars are the answer, although for town & city use - possibly. The range isn't long enough, maybe the hydrogen fuel cell powered car will be though, but the technology isn't quite ready yet.

[Departed]

Originally Posted by The Yellow Peril

Good point, although the battery makers featured in the documentary said that GM wouldn't take thier NimH Nicle Metal Hydride batteries, preferring to use lead-acid batteries. NimH apart from weighing less have a greater capacity, therefore a longer journey capaciltiy and a faster recharge time.

Another bit of research showed the "average" journey to be only 29 miles. In other words the daily commute. My daily commute just happens to be exactly 29 miles each way. I'd happily drive an EV if there was such a thing available.

If we used EV's for the city/commute there would be a huge reduction in pollution. For longer journeys a hybrid petrol/battery ala the Prius would be the solution.


The market is there, but no one is meeting the demand. You've only got to look at the price of fuel, the interest in global warming and the concerns about pollution to understand that this is something that we ignore at out peril.

The Peugot electric cars had NiMH and the problem was durability and expense. So you bought the car, but only leased the battery. Don't know what happened to them, but never seen one on the road. So the availability and the demand must have had something that made them incompatible. Maybe the price removed the demand.

An important thing to remember too, is that electric cars are not zero pollution. They may be at point of delivery, but the source of the electricity is not (ignoring the currently small amount of renewables) and power stations are really inefficient compared to car engines, and there are not insignificant losses incurred in distribution.

[Hampton Caught]

Don't forget that the electric vehicle is 'emission-free' but the coal fired powerstations that provide the electricty are certainly not, about 30% of the power produced is lost in the cables bringing the power to your home and the batteries (and motors) are not 100% efficient either.

All together, the electric vehicle idea has a limited use/ market and is not the answer to provide a non-polluting solution to enable us the freedom and travel that we've got used to over the past 60-70 years.

Steve

[adysiflori]

What about air power ?
.http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7243247.stm

[The Yellow Peril]

Originally Posted by Hampton Caught

Don't forget that the electric vehicle is 'emission-free' but the coal fired power stations that provide the electricity are certainly not, about 30% of the power produced is lost in the cables bringing the power to your home and the batteries (and motors) are not 100% efficient either.

All together, the electric vehicle idea has a limited use/ market and is not the answer to provide a non-polluting solution to enable us the freedom and travel that we've got used to over the past 60-70 years.

Steve

I think it's pretty obvious that the millions and millions spent by the petro-chemical and automotive industries promoting internal combustion engines and fossil fuels is clearly succeeding.

Yes I accept that and electric car whilst not polluting at the point of use creates additional carbon emissions due to the increased demand on power stations, but:

It's probably better to have a few dozen power stations whose emissions can be managed rather than millions of cars polluting the country.

Power stations are becoming more efficient

Not all power stations burn fossil fuels

The next generation of power stations will be more environmentally friendly with a greater dependence on renewable energy, wave, wind and solar.

We could generate out own power from the new super efficient solar panels and power our cars that way for free - oops - no money to fuel conglomerates!

Hydrogen Cell technology is "not ready yet" nor will it be for at least another 20 years, if ever, as the costs associated with development, deployment and production are many times more expensive than conventional fuel and it takes more energy to produce hydrogen that it does to run a battery electric car.

Current battery technology would have given the GM EV1 a range over 300+ miles on a single charge.

All the GM and Ford cars built to comply with the California zero emissions legislation were leased and so the leases were cancelled and the cars recalled. They were then taken out into the Arizona desert and crushed.

For the latest view of electric car features and performance check out Tesla Motors http://www.teslamotors.com/

You will be very suprised!

[Jürgen]

In 1972 the city of Düsseldorf started test drives with electric powered buses. These buses towed their batteries on single axle trailers. The capacity of the batteries was sufficient to get them around for some hours in busy city traffic.

They have been in use until the mid or late eighties, then being replaced by common diesel buses again.

[The Yellow Peril]

Thats a shame, a backwards step, a pity.

The future is here http://www.teslamotors.com/

Check out Tesla Motors.0-60mph in 3.5 seconds, 125 mph top speed, 135mpg equivalent, 220 miles per charge, oh and it's made in England by Lotus and then shipped to California.


Andrew