Winter tyres

[Mr Bone]

My 4x4 which at normal driving speeds in summer on summer tyres doesn't understeer. In winter on summer tyres it does, but on winter tyres it doesn't.
This is because the winter tyres have more grip at lower temperatures than summer tyres.
None of the above scenarios has any snow.

[T16]

Well I was driving in Bosnia at -15DegC on summer tyres with no snow or ice, and they are almost exactly the same as when the temperature is +10DegC

Sounds like you are not driving appropriately for the conditions.

However I will say one thing, maybe its down to the quality of tyres people are fitting....

The "lowest" quality tyre Ive ever fitted to my car was a Falken 912/914, and compared to the rubbish Ive seen fitted to ZTs, may go some way to explaining why ive never had a single issue in low temperatures with any of my cars.

When Ive bought ZT's, the cheap dross fitted to the wheels has always been absolutely SHOCKING in anything damp, or cold, and would make any new winter tyre seem infinitely better.

In cold weather, ANYTHING Chinese has been dreadful, the harder compounds these awful "tyre" makers use just goes like plastic in real cold temps, and the car is all over the place like its ice. However with decent brands, Ive never experienced an issue.

I cant really say any more on this subject aside from the fact that people living in London fitting winter tyres is just hilarious.

[Les4048]

Originally Posted by Mr Bone

I have a set of Michelin Alpins on steel rims, I bought them 3yrs ago when I was travelling from Peterhead to Bolton nearly every weekend. Some weekends there was snow, many times it was below zero, just the kind of weather these tyres were designed for as the compound they are made from will remain pliable below 5c where summers will not.
Pliable is good, this means a bit extra grip. The sidewalls are also less stiff, this allows the tyre to deflect over bumps/potholes keeping the contact patch in contact.
The sipes in winter tyres are designed not only to clear water away, or allow a small level of movement on the contact patch (grip again) but in snow they allow the tyre to hold a small amount of snow. This snow grips the stuff on the floor, strange but true.
Alas, winter tyres are not designed for reckless high speed progress. The speed ratings indicate this.
So, finding myself impressed with my findings (and not basing my judgement on 3rd party opinion) I've bought a set of spare rims for my Shogun and put Alpins on those as well. This has made a difference thats easier to measure at the wheel. Despite being fitted with summer road tyres, it understeers a little on tight bends and roundabouts in winter (not in summer though....?).
With the winters on it doesn't, at normal driving speeds it grips.

So thanks for your opinions on why winter tyres are a con, and we should all ignore the hype, and unless we intend driving at 80 in 2ft of snow we'd be better off spending our cash elsewhere, but my experience leads me to believe that they are worth the outlay.

Oh, and do try to be a little less patronising.

There's a good chap.

Thank you as you've just hit the nail on the head regarding winter tyres. They have advantages over summer tyres as posted here and it's not hype it's fact. There are loads of videos on YouTube showing the advantages even on ice due to the zips pumping water away from the surface allowing the tyre to grip. The first time I used winter tyres was 2010, I bought a BMW in 2009 and it had to sit at the door because it was it wouldn't move in snow. Fitted 18" wheels and winter tyres for the winter of 2010 and the car was unstoppable so winter tyres do work. I've got winters on my 75 Tourer and there was a light snow a few weeks ago and people were sliding al over the place but my car made progress as though the snow and ice wasn't there. So in my limited experience snow tyres do work and if we all had them there'd be less problems on the road but they're not a license for normal driving in winter conditions, they don't fix stupid

[Mr Bone]

Originally Posted by T16

Well I was driving in Bosnia at -15DegC on summer tyres with no snow or ice, and they are almost exactly the same as when the temperature is +10DegC

Sounds like you are not driving appropriately for the conditions.

However I will say one thing, maybe its down to the quality of tyres people are fitting....

The "lowest" quality tyre Ive ever fitted to my car was a Falken 912/914, and compared to the rubbish Ive seen fitted to ZTs, may go some way to explaining why ive never had a single issue in low temperatures with any of my cars.

When Ive bought ZT's, the cheap dross fitted to the wheels has always been absolutely SHOCKING in anything damp, or cold, and would make any new winter tyre seem infinitely better.

In cold weather, ANYTHING Chinese has been dreadful, the harder compounds these awful "tyre" makers use just goes like plastic in real cold temps, and the car is all over the place like its ice. However with decent brands, Ive never experienced an issue.

I cant really say any more on this subject aside from the fact that people living in London fitting winter tyres is just hilarious.

The 4x4 has Michelin Latitude summer road tyres, my 75 has Conti's.
Both have Alpin winter tyres.
No cheap dross, no ill judged or inappropriate driving, no accidents or points since 1981 winter or summer.

Winter tyres work.

Fact.

If you don't wish to admit it, fine, don't really care.

[Neil1]

Originally Posted by T16

Looks like the long post above was agreeing with me....

They grip in snow, which is what Ive been saying all along.

If you can see black tarmac and it is not ice, its not worth it. If the road is white, Id have nothing but winters on, as the difference is night and day.

The point Im making is that in England you might have this scenario 1 day out of the year, maybe 2?

Also up in Scotland we regularly have roads closed off by the snow gates, so your winter tyres are not going to help if the road is shut

As for the speed rating, this is misleading. My winters are Y rated up to 186 :p

Point is 99% of the roads in the UK 99% of the time are clear of snow or ice. So if you want to spend your money for the 1% of the 1% go right ahead!

Im back from Germany right now with winters on, and have yet to experience any weather here that Ive needed them for.

You really are missing the point, aren't you?

Lets get a couple of things straight here, Winter Tyres are made of a softer compound (they have a higher silica content) that is more beneficial when temperatures are below +7'C.

Now there is no legal requirement in the UK to fit them but in Germany it is Mandatory.

Where I live, I agree maybe it's a waste of time but if I lived in the sticks, yes I would have them as it's only the main roads that get gritted down here and not the side roads or country lanes.

But I will be looking at getting a set because I suppose it's piece of mind but that's my choice!
My Summer Tyres are Goodyear Efficient Grips and the ratings in the wet is A in the Summer Time.

The ratings on the tyres only relate to what the tyre is used for and time of year.

[T16]

Originally Posted by Neil1

You really are missing the point, aren't you?

Lets get a couple of things straight here, Winter Tyres are made of a softer compound (they have a higher silica content) that is more beneficial when temperatures are below +7'C.

Now there is no legal requirement in the UK to fit them but in Germany it is Mandatory.

Where I live, I agree maybe it's a waste of time but if I lived in the sticks, yes I would have them as it's only the main roads that get gritted down here and not the side roads or country lanes.

But I will be looking at getting a set because I suppose it's piece of mind but that's my choice!
My Summer Tyres are Goodyear Efficient Grips and the ratings in the wet is A in the Summer Time.

The ratings on the tyres only relate to what the tyre is used for and time of year.

1) they are not mandatory in Germany, contrary to popular belief. They are only required when conditions deem them necessary.

2) The 7DegC thing is a lot of horse doo doo. Sorry, but it is....There is literally no discernable difference down to about 0DegC between a good set of winters and a good set of summers. I can certainly feel the difference at about -3 or below...when the summer rubber really starts to stiffen up though.

I still maintain my stance, that 99% of people in the UK 99% of the time, winters are just a pure waste of money. The idea that people in southern England are fitting them where you barely get a flake of snow these days, is nothing short of bonkers.

Even Germans with rear wheel drive Porches that only use them in the city dont bother with winter tyres. Of course the majority do fit them, but usually because they really need them outwith of a urban environment.

Save you money, get an FBH (if you have a diesel!)

[lightningmark]

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[T16]

Originally Posted by lightningmark

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Whats the problem? Don't like the truth?!

You splashed out on Winter tyres and live in Cornwall?! ))

THink people are missing my point, I never said winters do not work, I said they are pointless for 99% of the year in the UK. You might have 1-2 trips a year where you think "yeah glad I have these" and that's it.

For everyone arguing about this, IM RUNNING WINTER tyres, and I actually wish I wasn't, as the weather back in Scotland has been so mild, they have been totally wasted! Back in Germany its been -4 -5 etc, which is much more like the temps needed to actually see the benefit from them.

But hey, let people follow the hype like sheep, its your money!

Whats next? OMG I need winter tyres because its raining?! Seriously.... I think the opinions of many are influenced by this nanny state mindset, where everyone seems to think everything in the world is dangerous....

Get a grip people. If native Germans sometimes don't even bother for cars that stay in the city, your average brit in southern England does not need winter tyres... Get over it!

[Kennyeth]

Originally Posted by lightningmark

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Explain ???
Ken.

[OBC John]

Originally Posted by T16

Whats the problem? Don't like the truth?!

You splashed out on Winter tyres and live in Cornwall?! ))

THink people are missing my point, I never said winters do not work, I said they are pointless for 99% of the year in the UK. You might have 1-2 trips a year where you think "yeah glad I have these" and that's it.

For everyone arguing about this, IM RUNNING WINTER tyres, and I actually wish I wasn't, as the weather back in Scotland has been so mild, they have been totally wasted! Back in Germany its been -4 -5 etc, which is much more like the temps needed to actually see the benefit from them.

But hey, let people follow the hype like sheep, its your money!

Whats next? OMG I need winter tyres because its raining?! Seriously.... I think the opinions of many are influenced by this nanny state mindset, where everyone seems to think everything in the world is dangerous....

Get a grip people. If native Germans sometimes don't even bother for cars that stay in the city, your average brit in southern England does not need winter tyres... Get over it!

Yes, but there are ways of saying things that are not patronising and condescending and then there's the way that you say things! Don't apply for any positions in the diplomatic corps, will you? You'll be disappointed.

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