Leaking MLS

fandango151 · 4th January 2017, 19:06

Hi,

I'm back despite owning the 300c now and needed the master people's advice on k series matters. Still miss my 75 a little!

Picked up a TF. Mountains of electrical gremlins and I fitted new clutch, cooling fan and brake lights bypassed by an idiot but no signs of hgf after a few hundred miles just got a bit warm at points with no functioning fan but no boil up atall. Found IN2 switch position on ignition switch dead spliced a relay from position one to get power to ECU fan relay and brake lights (it works but mems seems to turn fan on when power is applied until IN2 posotion is reached then all fine hope it's not something that will cause damage). Some other Muppet had swapped cam and tps wiring - worked it out and it ran so sweetly for about 20 mins.

Leak around block on ex side with the look of a black MLS being there. Looking to replace but any advice - I've never seen an MLS fail. Are the cheap ones (probably fitted judging by wiring) likely to be the cause or is it possible to be a delayed result of overheating as it ran nicely for 100 or so miles with 0 coolant loss or leaks, bit gutted it went on 1st drive with everything running nicely (swapped cam and tps makes them idle noisily and rough).

Anyway enough rambling - spare head from a running scrapper and investigation to follow.

fandango151 · 9th January 2017, 07:10

Well nobody replied and here were findings after a disassemble.

Around number 2 the gasket had fallen apart (cracked from bolt area to outside of block). The thing felt incredibly gritty and large areas of block / head had black gloop on from what appears to be the gasket - maybe paint. Conclusion - cheap gasket with no makers name and just a number. Moral of the story don't buy cheap. Whoever did it was a moron-missing studs in inlet manifold yet it wasn't leaking.

Head seemed true so cleaned and not skimmed. To add to injury the pektron has died after disconnecting the battery so I've ran it for about 4 seconds. Sending that off today.

BRMFUN · 9th January 2017, 07:15

The cheap gaskets are not good, see a previous post of mine (oil and coolant loss) and they will break down, it would be good to see someone fit the new SIAC head gasket, kit but at over £100 it's unlikely but appears to be a permanent repair!

fandango151 · 9th January 2017, 07:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by BRMFUN

The cheap gaskets are not good, see a previous post of mine (oil and coolant loss) and they will break down, it would be good to see someone fit the new SIAC head gasket, kit but at over £100 it's unlikely but appears to be a permanent repair!

Any links ? I've see 2 which are on AR online blogs that appear to have failed in exactly same manner as mine. I bought. Would be interesting to show my mate and also this makes the cars look even worse !

Fitted a set from Matt with the reinz gasket that had head save bonded to it. The head had a tiny indent in a fire ring but there was some pitting (not heavy but it was pepperered) hence decided against a skim exposing more.

mh007 · 9th January 2017, 08:23

Personally, I would have skimmed the head (at least a light skim as that would have given you a more accurate reading of just how true it is).

As I said, my personal opinion only & I don't want to start the 'to skim or not to skim discussion again' as that's been discussed at length.

The chances are, if it was a cheap head gasket last time, probably not skimmed then either & I'd guess the old head bolts were used too (another pointless thing to do when you can buy a set for under £40.00!).

fandango151 · 9th January 2017, 09:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by mh007

Personally, I would have skimmed the head (at least a light skim as that would have given you a more accurate reading of just how true it is).

As I said, my personal opinion only & I don't want to start the 'to skim or not to skim discussion again' as that's been discussed at length.

The chances are, if it was a cheap head gasket last time, probably not skimmed then either & I'd guess the old head bolts were used too (another pointless thing to do when you can buy a set for under £40.00!).

Yeah the skim or not to skim is always painful. I took an engineering straight edge (man alive they are expensive) and nowhere would a feeler gauge go under. Sat in the dark not a spot of light under the thing either on any contact surface.

Almost certainly reused bolts, whoever did it knew nothing of a k series ... They made their own additional timing marks, broken belt covers. It's either laziness or stupidity (have a feeling the belt was simply slipped on and off with there being marks on the outer of the crank pulley).

Anyway long and short of it - DO NOT BUY CHEAP and if you spot coolant leaking in ex area ... Be suspicious of any "oh it's had its gasket done with the new type" when purchasing!

i just got one · 9th January 2017, 09:49

this is the set i used from mat used on a f done 6000 miles in it so far seems fine time will tell
www.dmgrs.co.uk/collections/head-gasket-kits/products/ultimate-k-series-head-gasket-fix-n-series-gasket-high-tension-head-bolts-and-revised-oil-rail-equiv-to-

it's the set with the oil rail bolts new head gasket from the mg7

WillyHeckaslike · 9th January 2017, 15:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by fandango151

The head had a tiny indent in a fire ring but there was some pitting (not heavy but it was pepperered) hence decided against a skim exposing more.

Possibly skimmed previously revealing the porosity which Rover hid in its skimming technique. If any porosity was evident in the fire-ring areas I would have peened them and had it skimmed if tolerance allows.

Quote:

Originally Posted by i just got one

it's the set with the oil rail bolts new head gasket from the mg7

Click

sworks · 9th January 2017, 21:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by fandango151

Almost certainly reused bolts, whoever did it knew nothing of a k series ... They made their own additional timing marks, broken belt covers. It's either laziness or stupidity (have a feeling the belt was simply slipped on and off with there being marks on the outer of the crank pulley).

Nothing wrong with using the bolts again if in spec, I'd rather use genuine in spec bolts than new cheap bolts. Some techs add their own marks using either tippex or a paint touch up as an extra precaution over the locking tool, again, nothing wrong with that

fandango151 · 9th January 2017, 21:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillyHeckaslike

Possibly skimmed previously revealing the porosity which Rover hid in its skimming technique. If any porosity was evident in the fire-ring areas I would have peened them and had it skimmed if tolerance allows.

Click

I'm with you on that hence what I did... Oddly it wasn't around the fire rings .. peppered around and not too deep hence left with hope that the headsaver will do the trick.

I suppose the moral of it all though, despite the shoddy workmanship (in my opinion) and assuming the bolts had been torqued correctly, it does appear a quality gasket wouldn't have resulted in the torrent dripping on the manifold - stay away from the eBay "bargains".

Rather nervous waiting for the pektron man do turn the unit around and fire it up to see what happens. 75 is miles better on the electricals, I have to admit I think they are better than my 300 in some respects !

Happy motoring 75ers (and zt people) fingers crossed for the TF.

4th January 2017, 19:06	#1
fandango151 Loves to post Rover 75 Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Tamworth Posts: 291 Thanks: 2 Thanked 72 Times in 65 Posts	Leaking MLS Hi, I'm back despite owning the 300c now and needed the master people's advice on k series matters. Still miss my 75 a little! Picked up a TF. Mountains of electrical gremlins and I fitted new clutch, cooling fan and brake lights bypassed by an idiot but no signs of hgf after a few hundred miles just got a bit warm at points with no functioning fan but no boil up atall. Found IN2 switch position on ignition switch dead spliced a relay from position one to get power to ECU fan relay and brake lights (it works but mems seems to turn fan on when power is applied until IN2 posotion is reached then all fine hope it's not something that will cause damage). Some other Muppet had swapped cam and tps wiring - worked it out and it ran so sweetly for about 20 mins. Leak around block on ex side with the look of a black MLS being there. Looking to replace but any advice - I've never seen an MLS fail. Are the cheap ones (probably fitted judging by wiring) likely to be the cause or is it possible to be a delayed result of overheating as it ran nicely for 100 or so miles with 0 coolant loss or leaks, bit gutted it went on 1st drive with everything running nicely (swapped cam and tps makes them idle noisily and rough). Anyway enough rambling - spare head from a running scrapper and investigation to follow.

9th January 2017, 07:15	#3
BRMFUN Avid contributor MG Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Midlands Posts: 212 Thanks: 78 Thanked 37 Times in 35 Posts	The cheap gaskets are not good, see a previous post of mine (oil and coolant loss) and they will break down, it would be good to see someone fit the new SIAC head gasket, kit but at over £100 it's unlikely but appears to be a permanent repair! __________________ MG ZTT 135 Auto… Too many cars too little time

9th January 2017, 09:49	#7
i just got one Avid contributor 75 tourer Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: st austell Posts: 139 Thanks: 15 Thanked 38 Times in 23 Posts	this is the set i used from mat used on a f done 6000 miles in it so far seems fine time will tell www.dmgrs.co.uk/collections/head-gasket-kits/products/ultimate-k-series-head-gasket-fix-n-series-gasket-high-tension-head-bolts-and-revised-oil-rail-equiv-to- it's the set with the oil rail bolts new head gasket from the mg7 Last edited by Dragrad; 17th January 2017 at 23:12.. Reason: Consecutive posts, please use the edit or multi-quote options ;-)

9th January 2017, 07:10	#2
fandango151 Loves to post Rover 75 Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Tamworth Posts: 291 Thanks: 2 Thanked 72 Times in 65 Posts	Well nobody replied and here were findings after a disassemble. Around number 2 the gasket had fallen apart (cracked from bolt area to outside of block). The thing felt incredibly gritty and large areas of block / head had black gloop on from what appears to be the gasket - maybe paint. Conclusion - cheap gasket with no makers name and just a number. Moral of the story don't buy cheap. Whoever did it was a moron-missing studs in inlet manifold yet it wasn't leaking. Head seemed true so cleaned and not skimmed. To add to injury the pektron has died after disconnecting the battery so I've ran it for about 4 seconds. Sending that off today.

9th January 2017, 08:23	#5
mh007 This is my second home MG ZT260 SE, MG ZT190+, MG ZTT 160, R75 Conn SE 2.0, R75 Conn SE 2.5 X 3, R75 Club SE 1.8, P5B Coupe Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Keynsham, Bristol Posts: 4,211 Thanks: 65 Thanked 635 Times in 499 Posts	Personally, I would have skimmed the head (at least a light skim as that would have given you a more accurate reading of just how true it is). As I said, my personal opinion only & I don't want to start the 'to skim or not to skim discussion again' as that's been discussed at length. The chances are, if it was a cheap head gasket last time, probably not skimmed then either & I'd guess the old head bolts were used too (another pointless thing to do when you can buy a set for under £40.00!).