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14th December 2012, 08:19 | #21 |
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The lower engine mount is indeed subject to twisting forces(pushing to one side)
This is why i switched back to rubber. I suspect the poly does not handle sideways forces so well. In fact, the mount appeared twisted to one side. The poly bush was developing looseness inside the mount too. So i am trying the chinese rubber mount now. |
18th December 2012, 10:48 | #22 |
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Modifed Powerflex Diesel Mount.
As some of you know i have been in talks with powerflex for a months or so now with regards to the Red Diesel lower engine mount which in a few cases have failed posts and photo's in the thread.
Two days ago i got an email from the sales manger informing me that the modified diesel engine mounts had been made up and he was sending me out two to test and to replace the ones that failed,well this morning they arrived. As you can see from the photo's the colour as changed to Yellow three elongated sloted holes have been added the rubber composite is stiffer and once fitted into the alloy teardrop mount there would be no void as was in the red original mount. I myself am in the thinking that these changes are more towards the petrol engine mount but with sloted holes so its not to stiff and hoping it will solve the problem of the mont tearing its self out of the mount, also it might be that no Yellow mount as been reported to have failed like the diesel one as albeit on a few occasions. I will reserve my full judgement untill one or both have been tested for a few months at least what are your thoughts on the mount photo's below cheers Arctic. Figs 1/2 show that the metal centre is the same the middle rubber is now the same as the petrol engine bush no void but still the lip is very low. 1 2 Figs 3 show the contrast to the original Red powerflex mount 3 Fig 4 shows the close up of no void in the middle of the bush hoping that it will stop some of the movement. 4 Fig 5 face on view of the two mounts 5 Fig 6 next to the Chinese (roverlink) mount which at the moment seems to be performing very well less vibration smoother gear change mind on my Tourer that could be down to having a full new clutch fitted a few day ago. 6 Please add your opinions on what you can see so far cheers Arctic.
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18th December 2012, 11:54 | #23 |
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So far as the diesel mount goes, I think there have been a few reported cases where the mount has been offset with regards to the chassis bracket, once the mount is attached to the engine. Mine, which as already said has been faultless with the adpated Mondeo mount for the past 2.5 years, all lined up perfectly - both side to side and front to back.
I would imagine that any offset in the mount, will cause the Powerflex bush to tear. A little more information which might help the discussuion.... I have a spanner which I made up specially for the job of changing the belts on the CDT, to enable the tensioner to be released. I have loaned it out several times since I made it and all managed to use it fine, except for one case, where it had to be returned unused because it was reported, that it would not fit in the gap. I know the gap is tight, but it certainly should not vary from car to car. Getting to the point now - I wonder if the above problem with the spanner, plus some of the reported offsets in the lower mounting bush and the Powerflex bush ripping, might be related? Could the problems be due to one of the two upper engine mounts having failed, or there been some serious accident damage to the chassis? Could some of the continueing reports of vibration even after bushes have been swapped be due to any of the above issues?
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18th December 2012, 14:10 | #24 |
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I must admit the diesel mount being softer and as reported by most people as a lot easier to fit was always more likely to wear faster and come back out easier.Maybe there should be some bonding compound Inserted to prevent it coming out,or expanding foam?
Anyways the yellow mount being harder compound and harder to get in in the first place should stand a better chance of staying putt.It seems powerflex have adapted my man in a shed modification to reduce vibration on tick over I only trialled my yellow mount a couple of months and cannot say if it would last better than the oe mount but there was no sign of wear when I swapped back to an original fitting for the 1.8T. |
18th December 2012, 16:14 | #25 | |
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Quote:
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18th December 2012, 16:35 | #26 |
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These are diesels.
I think people are expecting FAR too much. They always produce vibration on tickover, especially when cold, but still very noticable even when hot. I fitted a brand new genuine mount to mine, and it made a fractional different if any at all, but there is nothing wrong with the car, or any of the mounts etc etc. Its just the nature of the beast. On tickover, the M47R can be quite harsh. No point going round in circles trying to find a cure for a problem that cannot be fixed. Everyone with diesels will get rattles and vibrations. All the ZT diesels I have experienced have been more or less exactly the same. |
18th December 2012, 16:53 | #27 |
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Vibrations
Well, many owners of 75 diesels state on here that they have no vibrations on their cars. No vibrating seats or steering wheels, so that is a state I am attempting to achieve with my car since it appears to be possible. I do know, by now, that it is nothing to do with the lower engine mount.
Last edited by wuzerk; 18th December 2012 at 16:56.. |
18th December 2012, 18:29 | #28 |
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Polyurethane has excellent damping properties and the results of using it for this part are very good until...it fails. The heat will kill it sooner or later. I think I have tried everything in terms of composition, hardness, shape, but I underestimated the temperature. I don't know where it comes from, it may be engine or exhaust or both, I don't really care. Polyurethane is not good for this application, temperatures exceeding 100 Celsius are too high for this material. Special additives can push it up to 120 degrees but for a limited period of time.
Actually even the book says that polyurethane is an excellent elastomer for automotive use excepting the engine. I hope this helps somebody. If anyone has a heat resistant recipe I didn't know, good for him.
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18th December 2012, 19:30 | #29 |
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I agree with the above re heat and polyurethane, polyurethane is a thermoplastic, so if taken above it's softening temperature and under load, it will permanently (until the next heating) deform.
Then all bets are off re how it will perform. Given how close the turbo is to the engine mount, it is conceivable that the mount will get pretty hot, especially if an undertray is fitted, with a sort of still air pocket behind the engine. (It would be interesting if someone put temperature recorders on the mount to see what temperatures its 'seeing' in use.) Polyurethane also ages over time, if anyone has ever had one of those fancy waterproof map cases made of polyurethane they might have noticed it yellows after a few years, that is chlorine breaking out of the polyurethane material. Heat will greatly accelerate this ageing process. Also, there will be severe vibration, again, polyurethane will eventually get brittle and start to tear, which is what looks has happened to the red mount. Depending upon the grade of polyurethane it can also be affected by microbes, i.e. it starts to rot, especially in warm, damp conditions. Personally, I would stick with OEM, the Chinese one looks more engineered, and appears designed to flex in certain planes more than others, 'shunt' is when the engine rocks front to back under load, as an example the early Montegos had to have an extra 35mm put on their air intake hoses as the original ones were being ripped off by the engine movement. Diesels have pretty soft engine mounts, without the lower mount the M47R can rock quite impressively with just a little push, so I would suggest that the lower mount will have reasonably large forces acting upon it, so it must be important to stabilise the engine and transmission. |
18th December 2012, 19:32 | #30 |
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As in post 1 from Steve I am trying out a Powerflex Red Diesel mount with an original metal and nylon insert from a OEM mount
It has certainly not popped out yet as the previous one did, but i reckon there is definitely more vibration on the car, and more than when the OEM was still in place albeit cracked. I am looking forward to popping it back onto the ramps after Xmas to check it all out again
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