How many cambelts snap?

[jr.ewing*]

Sightly annoyed, some rational thinking went out the window when I bought the car but it didn't cost too much so can't complain.

[KWIL]

Why complain about cost? Work it out in terms of cost per mile and you will find your tyres probably cost more.

[jr.ewing*]

Originally Posted by KWIL

Why complain about cost? Work it out in terms of cost per mile and you will find your tyres probably cost more.

I'm not complaining too much about cost, if my car needs it then she will have a cambelt kit, my issue was that lots make the cambelt a important issue when buying or selling and I wondered how common they fail compared to the eagerness we replace them.

[Rikki]

Originally Posted by jr.ewing*

Not as rare as I thought then. The previous owner of my car says it was done but I don't know him from Adam and the history was lost conveniently. It just annoys me changing the belts etc when they may not need doing as he could be telling the truth, then again he could be lying so looks like I'll get mine done also.

Under my bonnet everything is clean, the oil looks fresh everything points to the car having money spent on it and being well maintained- however got no history with the car- and all attempts to contact the previous owner have failed so gone out and bought a cam belt kit- which a very nice man will do for me in the coming weeks.

Now you know and I know that he will probably pull the bumper off and find a perfect set of nearly new belts and tensioners - but for the sake a of a few beer tokens personally I wouldn't take the risk- if it does go then just scrap the shell because buying a replacement engine is really a step too far in a car worth only a grand

[marinabrian]

Originally Posted by jr.ewing*

I'm not complaining too much about cost, if my car needs it then she will have a cambelt kit, my issue was that lots make the cambelt a important issue when buying or selling and I wondered how common they fail compared to the eagerness we replace them.

Sklack !!



Whenever I buy a car, irrespective of what any service history may claim, or indeed the vendor of the car says, if the camshafts are driven by synchronous belts, it is the very first job done on the engine, yes that's right even before an oil change.

The reason a belt change is a negotiation point in regards to a KV6, is simple, if you are not doing the job yourself the labour cost is quite high.

There are two schools of thought when a single job can outweigh the purchase price of a car, you can either run the car as is and bin it in the event of belt failure, or you can look upon the car as an investment in your future reliable transport and bite the bullet.

Who knows when a belt is likely to fail? the answer is nobody, but to have a schedule of pre planned preventative maintenance laid out for you and to ignore it is an unwise personal choice.

We are supposed to be enthusiasts, so it pays to remember, just because the cars are worth very little in relation to what they did when new, many of the fixed costs remain the same.

Brian

[SD1too]

James,

None of the replies you've received answer your original question which was:

Originally Posted by jr.ewing*

I just wondered how many cambelts actually snap on a v6?

Originally Posted by jr.ewing*

I mean running outside and past their service interval.

So I do not understand how you can draw this conclusion:

Originally Posted by jr.ewing*

Not as rare as I thought then.

Originally Posted by marinabrian

This KV6 Front belt was not due on mileage, but was approaching time based replacement, not exceeded ...

Brian has the most dramatic post, unsurprisingly. Now that belt appears to have severe damage to part of an edge. There will be a reason for that, and I suggest that it has nothing to do with deterioration of the material over time. Did you photograph the rear belts Brian?

The question is do you want to risk it?

I disagree. James is asking for evidence, not to play roulette.

The renewal period quoted by MGR is six years because the belt has a life of 90,000 miles and their chosen annual mileage for the average owner is 15,000 miles. That figure was selected so that their cars were competitive to the new car buyer. There is nothing scientific about it at all.

Simon

[marinabrian]

Originally Posted by SD1too

James,

None of the replies you've received answer your original question which was:


So I do not understand how you can draw this conclusion:




Brian has the most dramatic post, unsurprisingly. Now that belt appears to have severe damage to part of an edge. There will be a reason for that, and I suggest that it has nothing to do with deterioration of the material over time. Did you photograph the rear belts Brian?

I disagree. James is asking for evidence, not to play roulette.

The renewal period quoted by MGR is six years because the belt has a life of 90,000 miles and their chosen annual mileage for the average owner is 15,000 miles. That figure was selected so that their cars were competitive to the new car buyer. There is nothing scientific about it at all.

Simon

The mileage covered by that front belt was 49,000 miles and 4 1/2 years, there was no evidence of physical contact of the belt to the timing covers, nor was there any issue with the tensioner, water pump, or idler.

One rear belt appeared to be fine, and the other was slack, curiously enough on the even bank where no damage occurred.

I am going to point out here that the front belt had not failed entirely and the timing marks lined up perfectly, the belt had simply begun to delaminate, and my theory is the internal structure of the belt had been damaged during it's original fitting.

As you are aware Simon, the rear belts are fitted to the pulleys with the locking tool in place, then the pulleys are spread with an expander to allow the rear pulleys and belt to pass over the guide pins in the camshafts.

The point of the exercise is not to be alarmist, but to demonstrate that timing belts can and do fail, even on the V6, so how many broken V6 belts have I personally seen, three is the answer to that question

Brian

[Fusilier]

Originally Posted by marinabrian

Sklack !!



Whenever I buy a car, irrespective of what any service history may claim, or indeed the vendor of the car says, if the camshafts are driven by synchronous belts, it is the very first job done on the engine, yes that's right even before an oil change.

The reason a belt change is a negotiation point in regards to a KV6, is simple, if you are not doing the job yourself the labour cost is quite high.

There are two schools of thought when a single job can outweigh the purchase price of a car, you can either run the car as is and bin it in the event of belt failure, or you can look upon the car as an investment in your future reliable transport and bite the bullet.

Who knows when a belt is likely to fail? the answer is nobody, but to have a schedule of pre planned preventative maintenance laid out for you and to ignore it is an unwise personal choice.

We are supposed to be enthusiasts, so it pays to remember, just because the cars are worth very little in relation to what they did when new, many of the fixed costs remain the same.

Brian

Brian

Seen that myself today, and also the piston had a hole in the top as well, but looks like Turbo Dave has done a very thorough investigation for us to see

He was doing Gruple's belts for me today, but ran out of time as he is doing a bit for me as well as doing all the other stuff. like changing engines !!!

See you soon

Stu

[gazcon]

To answer the original question, I doubt there are any stats recorded anywhere as to how many cambelts snap.

Like many of us, I spend far too much time browsing Gumtree, eBay etc looking at 75s & ZTs. Of those that are sold as spares / repairs it seems very rare to see one being sold because the cambelt let go.

So in terms of reasons why our cars end up scrapped, cambelt failure seems to account for a very small percentage. HGF, clutch failure etc etc (and a myriad of relatively minor problems like non-starting, FOC or fuel pump failure etc) account for the vast majority.

The only petrol I've bought was a 75 tourer for my dad to use for a month or two. I haggled £500 off the price as at 80k and a 52 plate there was no record of a cambelt change. My dad's very much of the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" school. He never got the cambelt done, and three years later it's still going. Going by the book, it should be on its third cambelt by now.

It's a gamble, and with the cars worth not much more than the price of a cambelt change I can see why people don't bother. My dad gambled, it paid off.

Personally I prefer preventative maintenance, and getting work done at the time and place of my choosing, rather than being let down when the car chooses. If I bought a petrol, and the car was in good nick otherwise and I planned to keep it, I'd get them changed. Peace of mind.

[rab60bit]

Originally Posted by jr.ewing*

I just wondered how many cambelts actually snap on a v6? How often has it happened to people on the forum? I know its a serious issue when they do, but were all laying out £500 plus to get them changed but how often does it occur? I know hgf is pretty much 100% guaranteed at some point on the 1.8 turbo as it happened to me but what's the stats on a v6 cambelts breaking?

They do 'snap' and I'm convinced it's because the idler pulley fails, not because the belt life is exceeded. There is a logic as to MGR's recommended change interval but that is because they have (had) to propose something. Audi amongst others started off their belt changes for well over 100K but lowered the figures once significant operational experience dictated otherwise - some models are now 60K.