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Old 27th November 2023, 20:53   #11
macafee2
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The fire in the wing was in front of the engine intakes and was disrupting the airflow to such an extent that the engines were both surging causing a loss of thrust. Fire warnings were also coming from both engines. The pilots throttled back on the two failing engines but the asymmetric thrust from the 2 good engines on full afterburn necessary for trying to maintain a flying speed caused an excessive bank resulting in further loss of lift and the fatal stall. I believe the pilots also in the final moments throttled back on the good engines to cancel the roll towards the inverted. Unfortunately, as soon as the fire started there wouldn't have been anything the pilots could have done to save the aircraft from the minute the aircraft lifted off

I do not know enough to be able to agree or disagree but I will go back to, the official report is not supported by everyone.

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Old 27th November 2023, 22:17   #12
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The pilots throttled back on the two failing engines but
Correction .... the flight engineer shut down the no 2 engine without command from the pilots as normal procedures because of a fire warning; the other engine was surging and throttled down initially resulting in an asymmetric condition.

Loss of thrust and disrupted airflow on that side meant that airspeed could not be maintained resulting in a stall with a nose up angle of attack. There were other contributory factors to the accident but in any case once the fuel tank was ruptured, the intensity of the fire meant no action could have saved those poor souls on board
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Old 28th November 2023, 17:58   #13
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Correction .... the flight engineer shut down the no 2 engine without command from the pilots as normal procedures because of a fire warning; the other engine was surging and throttled down initially resulting in an asymmetric condition.

Loss of thrust and disrupted airflow on that side meant that airspeed could not be maintained resulting in a stall with a nose up angle of attack. There were other contributory factors to the accident but in any case once the fuel tank was ruptured, the intensity of the fire meant no action could have saved those poor souls on board

We will never know for sure but you are quite likely right. It would however have been, in my opinion better if it had been just a freak accident with a punctured fuel tank and not involved things such as overloading and "shutting down" engines as then then becomes human error and somebodies fault and families have no redress of any kind of those responsible.

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Old 29th November 2023, 16:31   #14
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The Concorde fleet suffered dozens of tyre failures and on about half a dozen of those occasions fuel tanks were damaged. As long ago as 1979 a tyre failed at Dulles in the USA resulting in damage and fuel leaking from several tanks. Thankfully no fire on that occasion and the jet was recovered but it could have easily had the same outcome as the Paris crash had fate rolled the same dice. After that incident ye olde flight safety culture should have intervened to ensure that a common tyre failure should never again be able to cause that sort of damage but, clearly, it didn't.

I think that the Paris crash was more a Corporate and a Regulatory failure than all of the other links in the chain.
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Old 29th November 2023, 17:22   #15
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The Concorde fleet suffered dozens of tyre failures and on about half a dozen of those occasions fuel tanks were damaged. As long ago as 1979 a tyre failed at Dulles in the USA resulting in damage and fuel leaking from several tanks. Thankfully no fire on that occasion and the jet was recovered but it could have easily had the same outcome as the Paris crash had fate rolled the same dice. After that incident ye olde flight safety culture should have intervened to ensure that a common tyre failure should never again be able to cause that sort of damage but, clearly, it didn't.

I think that the Paris crash was more a Corporate and a Regulatory failure than all of the other links in the chain.
Indeed, tyre failures by tread shedding were a concern in the early years of Concorde operation and considerable research and modifications were conducted to minimise the risk of catastrophic failure. The redesign of the tyres and ending of the use of retreaded tyres by British Airways in 1981 and then Air France in 1996 entirely eliminated the problem of the tyres shedding their tread. Tyre failures thereafter were mainly due to deflation (not uncommon with other heavyweight aircraft) which didn't present a high risk of structural damage. I'm not aware if tyre research ever considered the cutting open of a tyre by a sharp blade like object at high velocity was ever considered as a likely event. Possibly not
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Old 2nd December 2023, 14:33   #16
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The series continues tonight on C4 at 8-25 with episode 2.
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Old 3rd December 2023, 15:20   #17
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There is a short 35 minute prog on the Vulcan tonight (Sunday) at 8-25 on Talking Pictures if anyone else is interested.
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Old 4th December 2023, 15:56   #18
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There is a short 35 minute prog on the Vulcan tonight (Sunday) at 8-25 on Talking Pictures if anyone else is interested.
Aahh, dos it, missed that one!
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Old 4th December 2023, 18:14   #19
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Aahh, dos it, missed that one!
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Was excellent,with mainly unseen unique footage.
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Old 4th December 2023, 21:26   #20
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Some good inflight footage but thought the ground stuff was a bit lightweight. But then I guess it was a constraint of the time with a need for secrecy given the status of the Vulcan and its role. Don't recall ever seeing a Vulcan stream its brakechute, aerodynamic braking was always used when I was present so I wonder if the streaming was done for the camera. Even so I was surprised to see the chute jettisoned on the runway, would have expected it to have been jettisoned and blown off with engines as it turned off it.
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