Info: V6 Rattly Manifold

Canonite · 21st August 2012, 14:45

I have replaced my rattly inlet manifold and removed the cover on the underside of my old one.
Only four of the six flaps were connected to the rod.

This is what it looks like underneath the manifold once removed from the car, ive already removed the 10 screws:

This shows the ultrasonic weld of the two sections of the manifold:

I used a heat gun to gently warm the manifold up to help avoiding it shattering:

I used a heated up scraper, and used a soft mallet to bash it into the weld:

Notice how the thickness of the plastic is shallower on the lower right of the cup, which shows how the moving plastic parts grind away at eachother like a shabby marriage:

I also took a few short video clips to show what happens during operation, and to show what is happening inside the manifold when there is vertical movement in the rod during a check.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/chantry...ic/7826045372/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/chantry...ic/7825095360/

I have two V6 cars so they too are likely to suffer this same failure. I do wonder if there is a connection between the 75 and the ZT variants, in that maybe the ZT suffers more failures due to the nature of the way in which they are driven because they are more likely to be given full throttle over 4500rpm?

sikelsh · 21st August 2012, 15:08

Very interesting and what a daft design

, are you planning to take them out and reseal the unit?

Simon

Canonite · 21st August 2012, 15:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by sikelsh

Very interesting and what a daft design

, are you planning to take them out and reseal the unit?

Simon

Not sure yet. I'm going to clean all the edges down ready for resealing but i'm not going to close it up just yet due to ongoing plans for a repair solution which retains the job of both motors.
Even the butterflies themselves have a lot of play in their housing, even if you have a solid rod there's still going to be some movement.

sikelsh · 21st August 2012, 16:07

Best dig out the old Mechano set then

, be interesting to see the results.

Simon

Dorset Bob · 21st August 2012, 16:52

Thanks to Canonite for an interesting couple of clips.
I always did wonder what exactly went on inside the manifold with the power valve VIS system

.

Reebs · 22nd August 2012, 04:15

Yes fascinating to actually see the mechanism working (or not as the case may be

) Thanks for posting the vid's

dlonamw · 15th September 2012, 08:14

do you think the inlet manifold is resealable, also how much power do you loose from this falier

thanks

chris

ScotSilver1987 · 15th September 2012, 10:34

Can anyone tell me how to best remove the cover without damaging it too much?

And .....

How do you remove the butterfly valves?

Cheers,

Canonite · 15th September 2012, 11:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlonamw

do you think the inlet manifold is resealable, also how much power do you loose from this falier
thanks
chris

The manifold is resealable, but it's quite an involved and meticulous process. I have yet to reseal mine as i'm awaiting the possibility of a revised actuator arm that will not suffer the same failure and the DuPont one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScotSilver1987

Can anyone tell me how to best remove the cover without damaging it too much?
And .....
How do you remove the butterfly valves?
Cheers,

I heated up my manifold with a heat gun to make the plastic a little less brittle, but due to the composite of nylon plastic and fibre glass it's always going to be brittle.
It took me a couple of hours with a heated scraper and a wide heated screwdriver. The idea is to melt your way through the ultrasonic weld, simply bashing at it will only cause it to crack which will make it only good for the bin.

I found that once i'd done the rear part, the front section was much much easier. Removing the butterflies themselves can be done by either drilling out the mounting pin, or by removing the whole assemblies by prying them off with a flat blade.

I can only advise to search google, and search the forums for various threeads about the process of opening the manifold up.
Research research research...

ScotSilver1987 · 15th September 2012, 11:46

Thanks Canonite,

I had already started removing my cover last night with a chisel. I am guessing I have messed this up now, even though there are no cracks. I have not yet got the cover off but I do not have a heat gun at my disposal.

I have purchased some strong epoxy and I assume that you could use a thermal silicone to be absolutely assure of getting a airtight bond.

21st August 2012, 14:45	#1
Canonite This is my second home BMW 330d Tourer, MG ZT 180 SE XPG, VW Polo 6R 1.2 TDI Bluemotion Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: York Posts: 6,022 Thanks: 363 Thanked 574 Times in 319 Posts	Info: V6 Rattly Manifold I have replaced my rattly inlet manifold and removed the cover on the underside of my old one. Only four of the six flaps were connected to the rod. This is what it looks like underneath the manifold once removed from the car, ive already removed the 10 screws: This shows the ultrasonic weld of the two sections of the manifold: I used a heat gun to gently warm the manifold up to help avoiding it shattering: I used a heated up scraper, and used a soft mallet to bash it into the weld: Notice how the thickness of the plastic is shallower on the lower right of the cup, which shows how the moving plastic parts grind away at eachother like a shabby marriage: I also took a few short video clips to show what happens during operation, and to show what is happening inside the manifold when there is vertical movement in the rod during a check. http://www.flickr.com/photos/chantry...ic/7826045372/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/chantry...ic/7825095360/ I have two V6 cars so they too are likely to suffer this same failure. I do wonder if there is a connection between the 75 and the ZT variants, in that maybe the ZT suffers more failures due to the nature of the way in which they are driven because they are more likely to be given full throttle over 4500rpm? Last edited by Canonite; 18th September 2012 at 12:35..

21st August 2012, 15:08	#2
sikelsh This is my second home MGF Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Boston Posts: 4,865 Thanks: 123 Thanked 281 Times in 178 Posts	Very interesting and what a daft design , are you planning to take them out and reseal the unit? Simon __________________ Si Kelsh

21st August 2012, 16:07	#4
sikelsh This is my second home MGF Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Boston Posts: 4,865 Thanks: 123 Thanked 281 Times in 178 Posts	Best dig out the old Mechano set then , be interesting to see the results. Simon __________________ Si Kelsh

21st August 2012, 16:52	#5
Dorset Bob Senior Citizen Rover 75 2.5 Connoisseur SE,Chrysler 300C,124 Spider, Daytona 955i,Honda XL250 & Royal Enfield 650GT Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: The Kingdom of Wessex Posts: 6,976 Thanks: 2,391 Thanked 2,685 Times in 1,686 Posts	Thanks to Canonite for an interesting couple of clips. I always did wonder what exactly went on inside the manifold with the power valve VIS system . __________________ Let the good times roll............

22nd August 2012, 04:15	#6
Reebs Owners Club Director Rover 75 Conn SE V6 / MG ZT 260 SE V8 / MG ZT 180 SE V6 Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Southampton Posts: 20,936 Thanks: 645 Thanked 6,851 Times in 2,537 Posts	Yes fascinating to actually see the mechanism working (or not as the case may be ) Thanks for posting the vid's __________________ Check your trim here . Check your spec here Check your colour here . Check Project Drive here Check your original price here

15th September 2012, 08:14	#7
dlonamw Newbie MG ZTT 180 Auto Join Date: May 2011 Location: bromsgrove Posts: 23 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	do you think the inlet manifold is resealable, also how much power do you loose from this falier thanks chris __________________ purchased new car in bits in second Made in England with a little help from the ???? http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/...DSC05211-2.jpg my other car is a 69 V8 Morris Minor well nearly

15th September 2012, 10:34	#8
ScotSilver1987 Regular poster MG ZT Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Gainsborough Posts: 96 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Can anyone tell me how to best remove the cover without damaging it too much? And ..... How do you remove the butterfly valves? Cheers,

15th September 2012, 11:46	#10
ScotSilver1987 Regular poster MG ZT Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Gainsborough Posts: 96 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks Canonite, I had already started removing my cover last night with a chisel. I am guessing I have messed this up now, even though there are no cracks. I have not yet got the cover off but I do not have a heat gun at my disposal. I have purchased some strong epoxy and I assume that you could use a thermal silicone to be absolutely assure of getting a airtight bond.