rover 75 2.0 v6 2001 model. petrol pump dead

norwayjg · 30th October 2015, 19:36

Good Evening
From a frosty town by the name of Kongsberg in Southern Norway.I need help to get a workshop manual to be able to find out where the petrol pump relay is.The pump is dead,the other pump is not "split" and doesn't have an orange clip.The fuses are o.k. and the reset switch is "reset".The last seven digits on the chasis number number are

205 203.It is a 2.0 liter v6.A complete pump from a local dealer (both sides) costs £1,500 !!! The car is not worth that much.I need a manual to help me use the wiring diagram to be able to test the pump and not do any harm to the system.Is there anyone who can obtain an elusive manual or perhaps some practical advice too?If you google "Kongsberg" then skiers (in winter) would be very satisfied with the slopes here.I don't ski myself,but at 60 you tend to leave out the sporty stuff for the younger generation,
Best Regards John Grant

SD1too · 30th October 2015, 22:57

Good evening John,

The fuel pump relay is in the fusebox in the passenger (if you're RHD in Norway) fusebox. There should be a label identifying it. However, that is unlikely to be the problem.

You have only one pump, under the back seat on the right hand side of the vehicle. The left hand side contains the fuel filter. As you might have read, the most common cause of lack of fuel pressure is the fuel filter canister loosening, but this doesn't afflict 'early' cars which have a different design of filter. I think that you're saying that you have the early design, but I'm not completely sure.

The first test you should do is to get an assistant to turn on the ignition whilst you listen to the pump, either at the fuel filler cap or by lifting the rear seat cushion. You should hear it buzzing for two or three seconds. Can you?

The workshop manual is available from Rimmer Brothers I believe, but we can give you a lot of assistance here.

Simon

norwayjg · 31st October 2015, 07:14

Dear Simon,
I am very gratefull for your reply.....The pump does not buzz at all.I have lifted out both sides to look for faulty connections and want to test the pump ,plus identify the feed with a multimeter.The relay is not identified in the fuse box.It has a "picture" of a handbook as identity.The handbook that is in the glovebox is clear on which fuses are for what circuit,but not the relays.A wiring diagram would help.Another symptom is that the petrol gauge reads "no petrol" and the refuel light is on despite there being fuel in the tank.When you spray start gas in the air-filter and crank the engine ,it starts and runs,untill the gas is gone.That means the pump is the problem.I hope these syptoms are clear enough to confirm the diagnosis? I am not a mechanic,but have been "screwing around" all my adult life.I am eternally gratefull for any help I can get.The car was purchased recently,with a pile of workshop bills totalling over £10,000 from 2001 to june 2015.A quote for a new pump here was (hope you are sitting down) £1,500! I think E-bay is the way to go?Best Regards JG.

SD1too · 31st October 2015, 08:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by norwayjg

The pump does not buzz at all ...

OK, pin 2 on the pump connector white/purple is the +12v feed from the relay. Do you have that for 2 seconds when the ignition is turned on, and/or continuously during cranking?

Quote:

That means the pump is the problem

I'm not so sure at this early stage John. What your test shows is that the engine isn't getting fuel pressure; which is different. The false gauge reading is also significant, but let's see if the pump is receiving a supply first.

Do any of the workshop bills list any work done on the fuel system?

Simon

norwayjg · 31st October 2015, 09:40

Thankyou for the prompt reply.I will check out the wiring later today,as I am doing a waterpump swap on my other ride (a BM...) oops.In the garage waiting for an enormous ammount of attention is a stag too (with a ROVER v8 engine).I am afraid it will be staggeringly expensive.

Dear Simon,I have checked the fuses again and replaced the petrol pump fuse.Now there is 12 volts at ignition on position, and at cranking/start position.I put a direct 12 volt feed to the pump and after several tries it turned and started pumping fuel.Then I reconnected the original plug to the pump and tried it in "normal"conditions.No go.There is power there,but not enough.I have put the battery on charge,overnight, and will try again in the morning .I will let you know the outcome.The clue you gave me regarding to the purple and white wire was invaluable.Thankyou so much.Cross fingers and toes,hope it goes-in the morning! Best Regards John G.

SD1too · 31st October 2015, 19:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by norwayjg

I put a direct 12 volt feed to the pump and after several tries it turned and started pumping fuel.

After several tries?

Do you think the pump was jammed in some way?

Quote:

There is power there,but not enough.I have put the battery on charge,overnight ...

Did the battery manage to turn over the engine John? If so, I think we might be looking for a poor electrical connection in the fuel pump circuit.

Simon

norwayjg · 31st October 2015, 20:14

Dear Simon,
The engine did crank at first,but then was unable to.I am sure it is a dead battery.The car has been standing for quite some time and was sold as seen.
The pump definitely seems to have been jammed in some way.Perhaps it has a"dead spot"?I can only hope that a newly charged battery will do the trick.Previous bills do not indicate any previous faults with the fuel system.
It has had several timing belt changes (?) and has had loads of money spent on it.
Do the v6 engines suffer as much as the infamous K-series with head-gasket issues? Are there any particular weaknesses one should be aware of? I have noted the useful references to the blocked plenum/drains.I had an mx5 once (nice car).It had sounded as though one was at sea when you braked at a junction.Water sloshed inside the sills.It also had a blocked drain to the rear of the doors.A wire coat hanger did the trick there.Thankyou again for the advice.Best Regards J.G

SD1too · 31st October 2015, 22:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by norwayjg

The engine did crank at first,but then was unable to ... I can only hope that a newly charged battery will do the trick.

I agree J.G. Give the battery 24 hours charging, but it may not survive if it's been allowed to remain discharged for some time.

Quote:

It has had several timing belt changes (?) ...

Perhaps the previous owner preferred the six year replacement period rather than every 90,000 miles.

Quote:

Do the v6 engines suffer as much as the infamous K-series with head-gasket issues?

No they don't. The KV6 gaskets are more akin in design to the improved MLS 1.8 gasket, according to MG Rover's technical manual.

Quote:

Are there any particular weaknesses one should be aware of? I have noted the useful references to the blocked plenum/drains.

There's a guide somewhere on the forum. The radiator cooling fan motor needs to be kept under observation on all engines, but the KV6's problem is the plastic coolant pipework located in the 'V' which is susceptible to leakage.

Simon

norwayjg · 1st November 2015, 21:43

Dear Simon,
Hey presto it runs.The fault lay in the two spade connections from the top of the pump to the top of the unit.The contacts,when removed,were black with there being a long term poor connection.The fault was intermittent and therefore hard to spot.A new pump may be the better option in the future.Is it possible to replace the "pump only" part or must you buy the whole set up?(petrol version,not deisel).I am considering soldering the wires directly to the top of the pump to erase further hassle if the spade connectors give further problems.It is a godsend to be able to discuss these problems with your technical help forum.Can you please advise as to how I can credit the relevant account with the membership fee from "abroad"?It will be the best £10 I ever spent?I can use card or perhaps use a method of your choosing.I do have familly at "home " in England and could organise the dispatch of a cheque?(shows my age).
I will be back in England at Christmas.If I get your address Simon,I will send you a suprise in the post!My everyday job is at a German company called Rodenstock, making glasses.I will send you a pair of PORSCHE sunglasses as a reward !!!Regards JohnG..........no I'm not joking...the real"thing".(take a look at retail prices of these things!)Went to see the new James Bond movie this evening,loved the closing sequence with car reg. number BMT 216 A!A number embedded on my memory from the age of 11,and a car I saw at Silverstone "classic" last year in real life.Nostalgia.....worth millions?Once again best regards JG.

norwayjg · 2nd November 2015, 15:35

Dear Simon,
The "success" of the fix was short lived.I will need a pump afterall.It went well for a period of several short trips but then refused to fire on the fourth try.I have been quoted £300 from a supplier I trust.Have you any knowledge of an alternative?I will also need a filter.Is it just the contents of the filter that need changing or do I have to replace the whole unit?It is not the "orange clip" type. Best Regards John G

30th October 2015, 19:36	#1
norwayjg Newbie rover 75 tourer Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: kongsberg Posts: 12 Thanks: 10 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	rover 75 2.0 v6 2001 model. petrol pump dead Good Evening From a frosty town by the name of Kongsberg in Southern Norway.I need help to get a workshop manual to be able to find out where the petrol pump relay is.The pump is dead,the other pump is not "split" and doesn't have an orange clip.The fuses are o.k. and the reset switch is "reset".The last seven digits on the chasis number number are205 203.It is a 2.0 liter v6.A complete pump from a local dealer (both sides) costs £1,500 !!! The car is not worth that much.I need a manual to help me use the wiring diagram to be able to test the pump and not do any harm to the system.Is there anyone who can obtain an elusive manual or perhaps some practical advice too?If you google "Kongsberg" then skiers (in winter) would be very satisfied with the slopes here.I don't ski myself,but at 60 you tend to leave out the sporty stuff for the younger generation, Best Regards John Grant

30th October 2015, 22:57	#2
SD1too Doesn't do things by halves Rover 75 2.5 Connoisseur Auto (1999) Dealer launch model. Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Former Middlesex Posts: 20,371 Thanks: 1,587 Thanked 3,749 Times in 3,181 Posts	Good evening John, The fuel pump relay is in the fusebox in the passenger (if you're RHD in Norway) fusebox. There should be a label identifying it. However, that is unlikely to be the problem. You have only one pump, under the back seat on the right hand side of the vehicle. The left hand side contains the fuel filter. As you might have read, the most common cause of lack of fuel pressure is the fuel filter canister loosening, but this doesn't afflict 'early' cars which have a different design of filter. I think that you're saying that you have the early design, but I'm not completely sure. The first test you should do is to get an assistant to turn on the ignition whilst you listen to the pump, either at the fuel filler cap or by lifting the rear seat cushion. You should hear it buzzing for two or three seconds. Can you? The workshop manual is available from Rimmer Brothers I believe, but we can give you a lot of assistance here. Simon __________________ "Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble." Sir Henry Royce. Last edited by SD1too; 30th October 2015 at 23:02..

31st October 2015, 07:14	#3
norwayjg Newbie rover 75 tourer Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: kongsberg Posts: 12 Thanks: 10 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	norwayjg dead pump Dear Simon, I am very gratefull for your reply.....The pump does not buzz at all.I have lifted out both sides to look for faulty connections and want to test the pump ,plus identify the feed with a multimeter.The relay is not identified in the fuse box.It has a "picture" of a handbook as identity.The handbook that is in the glovebox is clear on which fuses are for what circuit,but not the relays.A wiring diagram would help.Another symptom is that the petrol gauge reads "no petrol" and the refuel light is on despite there being fuel in the tank.When you spray start gas in the air-filter and crank the engine ,it starts and runs,untill the gas is gone.That means the pump is the problem.I hope these syptoms are clear enough to confirm the diagnosis? I am not a mechanic,but have been "screwing around" all my adult life.I am eternally gratefull for any help I can get.The car was purchased recently,with a pile of workshop bills totalling over £10,000 from 2001 to june 2015.A quote for a new pump here was (hope you are sitting down) £1,500! I think E-bay is the way to go?Best Regards JG.

31st October 2015, 09:40	#5
norwayjg Newbie rover 75 tourer Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: kongsberg Posts: 12 Thanks: 10 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Thankyou for the prompt reply.I will check out the wiring later today,as I am doing a waterpump swap on my other ride (a BM...) oops.In the garage waiting for an enormous ammount of attention is a stag too (with a ROVER v8 engine).I am afraid it will be staggeringly expensive. Dear Simon,I have checked the fuses again and replaced the petrol pump fuse.Now there is 12 volts at ignition on position, and at cranking/start position.I put a direct 12 volt feed to the pump and after several tries it turned and started pumping fuel.Then I reconnected the original plug to the pump and tried it in "normal"conditions.No go.There is power there,but not enough.I have put the battery on charge,overnight, and will try again in the morning .I will let you know the outcome.The clue you gave me regarding to the purple and white wire was invaluable.Thankyou so much.Cross fingers and toes,hope it goes-in the morning! Best Regards John G. Last edited by Dragrad; 2nd November 2015 at 02:12.. Reason: Consecutive posts - use the edit :-)

31st October 2015, 20:14	#7
norwayjg Newbie rover 75 tourer Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: kongsberg Posts: 12 Thanks: 10 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	dead petrol pump norway Dear Simon, The engine did crank at first,but then was unable to.I am sure it is a dead battery.The car has been standing for quite some time and was sold as seen. The pump definitely seems to have been jammed in some way.Perhaps it has a"dead spot"?I can only hope that a newly charged battery will do the trick.Previous bills do not indicate any previous faults with the fuel system. It has had several timing belt changes (?) and has had loads of money spent on it. Do the v6 engines suffer as much as the infamous K-series with head-gasket issues? Are there any particular weaknesses one should be aware of? I have noted the useful references to the blocked plenum/drains.I had an mx5 once (nice car).It had sounded as though one was at sea when you braked at a junction.Water sloshed inside the sills.It also had a blocked drain to the rear of the doors.A wire coat hanger did the trick there.Thankyou again for the advice.Best Regards J.G

1st November 2015, 21:43	#9
norwayjg Newbie rover 75 tourer Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: kongsberg Posts: 12 Thanks: 10 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	dead pump in norway Dear Simon, Hey presto it runs.The fault lay in the two spade connections from the top of the pump to the top of the unit.The contacts,when removed,were black with there being a long term poor connection.The fault was intermittent and therefore hard to spot.A new pump may be the better option in the future.Is it possible to replace the "pump only" part or must you buy the whole set up?(petrol version,not deisel).I am considering soldering the wires directly to the top of the pump to erase further hassle if the spade connectors give further problems.It is a godsend to be able to discuss these problems with your technical help forum.Can you please advise as to how I can credit the relevant account with the membership fee from "abroad"?It will be the best £10 I ever spent?I can use card or perhaps use a method of your choosing.I do have familly at "home " in England and could organise the dispatch of a cheque?(shows my age). I will be back in England at Christmas.If I get your address Simon,I will send you a suprise in the post!My everyday job is at a German company called Rodenstock, making glasses.I will send you a pair of PORSCHE sunglasses as a reward !!!Regards JohnG..........no I'm not joking...the real"thing".(take a look at retail prices of these things!)Went to see the new James Bond movie this evening,loved the closing sequence with car reg. number BMT 216 A!A number embedded on my memory from the age of 11,and a car I saw at Silverstone "classic" last year in real life.Nostalgia.....worth millions?Once again best regards JG.

2nd November 2015, 15:35	#10
norwayjg Newbie rover 75 tourer Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: kongsberg Posts: 12 Thanks: 10 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	dead petrol pump in Norway Dear Simon, The "success" of the fix was short lived.I will need a pump afterall.It went well for a period of several short trips but then refused to fire on the fourth try.I have been quoted £300 from a supplier I trust.Have you any knowledge of an alternative?I will also need a filter.Is it just the contents of the filter that need changing or do I have to replace the whole unit?It is not the "orange clip" type. Best Regards John G