75 diesel not starting

[unimatrix1066]

just had the aa out after my car would not start, this turned out to be high pressure pump for the common rail, according to the patrol man this is a common problem on hdi engines, has anyone else experienced this

[Keith]

The High pressure pump is not a common problem, I don't think anyone here has ever needed to change one

Are you sure he did not mean the LP pump or pumps?

[trebor]

I had similar problems and the breakdown chappie edged his bets and said " its a fuel problem " Mine turned out to be the in tank fuel pump, fuel was getting through but not at sufficient pressure.

[unimatrix1066]

ive had the lp pumps done last year, being a common problem i think he meant all makers of hdis
also he showed me the aa diagnostic programme which stated 1.2v should be present on start up on the pump it was not

[Roverron]

ive had the lp pumps done last year, being a common problem i think he meant all makers of hdis
also he showed me the aa diagnostic programme which stated 1.2v should be present on start up on the pump it was not

How many miles has the car done?
Did you have any other symptoms prior to the starting problem?

Ron

[unimatrix1066]

the cars done 93000 miles prior to this it required cranking over to start the last couple of times i used it

[unimatrix1066]

also aa man checked cam sensor fuel pumps (which are 9 months old) and injectors.
he got the car to start with easy start put into the air filter housing

[Roverron]

the cars done 93000 miles prior to this it required cranking over to start the last couple of times i used it

Assuming its all okay and stays that way, then the other cause - injector leakback isn't involved. This also can give a low high-side pressure reading when cranking because the leak short circuits the fuel rail, stopping the pressure building up to the 220bar needed to open the injectors.

I would have checked for this before changing the HP pump because I'd have expected performance issues if the pump was faulty. E.g cutting out under full throttle, generally poor performance.

Ron

[unimatrix1066]

just test run the the car today and found if engine is run above 2000 rpm it cuts out and stalls.
have read the hayes manual and found to replace the pump requires rover tools so in theory not a diy job. also have note there is a fuel pressure regulator on the injection pump wonder if this might be the problem.
any ideas

[Roverron]

just test run the the car today and found if engine is run above 2000 rpm it cuts out and stalls.
have read the hayes manual and found to replace the pump requires rover tools so in theory not a diy job. also have note there is a fuel pressure regulator on the injection pump wonder if this might be the problem.
any ideas

It could be the HP regulator but really, a check for fault codes is needed and yes, a special tool is needed to remove the pump.

The fault code will help in deciding which to replace.

Ron

[unimatrix1066]

thanks for that ron , i have read threads on the mgroverorg site and might carryout all relvant checks mentioned by yourself, even though the pumps are not that old .
i have a code reader so i will also check for codes

[MGOracle]

A generic code reader will not show a HP or injector fault. It has to go on T4.

My car is suffering exactly the same issue and I have had to source a second hand HP Pump at some expense.

My car is hopefully having a T4 check tomorrow (monday) but again, this non start issue will be near on £400 to remedy.

Having said that, my car is 4 1/2 years old and at 112k. Both fuel pumps are fine as is the clutch, etc. If you divide that mileage over an average mileage lifespan it equates to over 8 years worth of car ownership before major problems have occurred.

Makes me feel better anyway.

[iain_leeds]

Not sure what special tools are required to remove the HP fuel pump.... all i had to do was remove the battery, the plastic box the battery sits in (secured with 4 x 6 lobe screws) then 1 hex (i think) bolt.

The hardest part was removing the metal fasteners which secure the fuel pipes to the top and bottom of the HP pump.

[unimatrix1066]

according to the haynes manual tools are require as the tension will be lost on the timing chain, without the tools the engine will require removing!
also there is a pressure regulator on the pump which can go and can be obtained through a land rover dealership at a lower price than xpart.

[MGOracle]

Not sure what special tools are required to remove the HP fuel pump.... all i had to do was remove the battery, the plastic box the battery sits in (secured with 4 x 6 lobe screws) then 1 hex (i think) bolt.

The hardest part was removing the metal fasteners which secure the fuel pipes to the top and bottom of the HP pump.

This is the low pressure under bonnet fuel pump which only throws out 3.6bar. Not the HP Pump (situated to the left of the starter motor) which throws out 200bar. Subtle difference i'm sure you'll agree. ;)

[MGOracle]

according to the haynes manual tools are require as the tension will be lost on the timing chain, without the tools the engine will require removing!
also there is a pressure regulator on the pump which can go and can be obtained through a land rover dealership at a lower price than xpart.

I believe this can be changed independantly of the HP pump (although they are attached). Do you happen to have the location of this regulator?

[sylvester]

I have just returned form Executive Motoring Services, Upchurch Kent to pursue the starting problems with my '03 75 Tourer CDTi see my thread "Reluctant to start" below. They say its the low pressure pump in the tank thats gone so its going in on thursday for fitting. They also say that the BMW electrical bits rarely go wrong but the fuel pump in the tank is a known weakness. Mine probably refused to start when it did because it was on a slope and the high pressure pump under the bonnet couldn't draw fuel through. So that was £132 + fitting + vat wasted for a crank sensor. Will update this note on thursday with new pump and another £300 quid up in smoke!

[MGOracle]

WHAT!

The crank sensor is £44 and takes about 30 careful minutes to fit!

:(

[sylvester]

Well now thats cheered me up no end - my local garage who I have known and trusted for some time told me they rang round various suppliers and could only source one from Whitehouse at dartford the one time Rover dealers. Its a BMW part with their logo moulded on. I had a look on Ebay and someone was flogging one which looked identical to mine - bidding thus far was 99p.....
Eddie B
PS Before I commit to having my LP pump changed I have been quoted £200 or more for this plus vat and fitting by Executive Motoring Services at Upchurch Kent - Rover specialists - hopefully this isn't a ripoff too?

[efreeti]

£200 + VAT + fitting does seem a little bit over the top, guess it depends how much they charge for the fitting. It should take an experienced mechanic about 40 minutes at the most to do a straight swap of the intank pump.

I have done a HOW TO on this site for replacing the Rover part with the cheaper Peaugeot pump. The entire job cost me about £100 and a few hours, but does involve taking the pump assembly apart. Nowhere near as difficult as it sounds.

Check with Rimmer Brothers for the current going rate on the intank pumps. Some even turn up on ebay now and again.

[trebor]

I have just recovered from similar starting problems in my old 75 CDT which has just been sold.

I paid £210 for an in tank fuel pump to be fitted which solved the problem along with a can sensor which cost £60 - before the problem was solved and we were going througn the possibilities i was quoted £120 for a crank sensor.

There was an in tank fuel pump on the for sale pages of this site recently and pondweed has just reduced it to £133 if he still has it, failing that there are 2 new ones currently on e bay for around the same money on a buy it now

[MGOracle]

Crank and Cam sensors are freely available from Rimmers and both cost between £40 and £50 each. Add an 'L' to the end of the part number and you get the LandRover price (which can be a lot cheaper).

Failing that, go to BMW. As they still make this engine, I find it humerous that a garage "could not source" the part. Even from BMW the Crank sensor is only £63 (inc VAT)

[trebor]

The garage I used went straight back to the local ex Rover dealers and that was the cost - but i will be wiser next time

[unimatrix1066]

just tested injectors for leak back , found no 2 to be leaking.
will now have to remove it which not easy as special tool used by rover garages