fuel pump vandalised

[martinwillmott]

:shrug:Firstly, Hi everyone, first time here, I just bought a 54 plate 75 1.8 petrol from some lying *** on ebay, he said his girlfriend had put diesel in it. I transported it home and found the fuel pump and filter both loose and the pipes from each had been removed along with any trace of fuel.

Problem is, I got it running but it pumped all the fuel from the o/s to the n/s side of the tank then stopped, the fuel pump was broken but with a little galvanised wire and bodgery i got it working, I have one pipe running fom the pump to the filter and another from the top of the filter to the engine, if I transfer all the fuel to the pump side the car runs but it also pumps the fuel back to the filter side so after 5 mins it runs out again, there is another pipe i believe (orange colour ) on the filter but it had been cut off at about 1" and I dont know where it went, I've looked in the haynes book and on the net but cant find it, does anyone have a pipe layout drawing or can tell me what's wrong here please. I figured out the float on the filter side runs the fuel guage (iffy) and the warning light but whats the float on the pump for?

So 2 questions,
where do the pipes from the bottom of the filter go?
and what does the float assy on the pump do?

any help would be appreciated, oh and the car looks like it's been swimming, puddles inside!

[Astraeus]

:shrug:Firstly, Hi everyone, first time here, I just bought a 54 plate 75 1.8 petrol from some lying *** on ebay, he said his girlfriend had put diesel in it. I transported it home and found the fuel pump and filter both loose and the pipes from each had been removed along with any trace of fuel.

Problem is, I got it running but it pumped all the fuel from the o/s to the n/s side of the tank then stopped, the fuel pump was broken but with a little galvanised wire and bodgery i got it working, I have one pipe running fom the pump to the filter and another from the top of the filter to the engine, if I transfer all the fuel to the pump side the car runs but it also pumps the fuel back to the filter side so after 5 mins it runs out again, there is another pipe i believe (orange colour ) on the filter but it had been cut off at about 1" and I dont know where it went, I've looked in the haynes book and on the net but cant find it, does anyone have a pipe layout drawing or can tell me what's wrong here please. I figured out the float on the filter side runs the fuel guage (iffy) and the warning light but whats the float on the pump for?

So 2 questions,
where do the pipes from the bottom of the filter go?
and what does the float assy on the pump do?

any help would be appreciated, oh and the car looks like it's been swimming, puddles inside!

Hi Mate

I had a fuel issue with mine. Perhaps not the same but worth checking. Access to internal pump via hatch under rear nearside passenger seat. The fuel pump and filter in one submerged unit. The pump has a habit of working loose and then as soon as under any load it just recycles fuel back into tank. The fix for this is via a little clip that you can get off here. It appears that the pump has not parted to the eye but that is exactly what it has done. Even if this is not fault you must do this or it will happen. I will have a look for link and post link.
If this is what it is (I suspect it is) it is a very cheap fix. The garage couldn't find my fault!!!! One post on here and problem solved.
Hope it is what yours is

Chris

[Ian G]

Sorry diesel owner so cant help with pump But as far as water inside it is very likely to be blocked plenum drains which can lead to serious problems with electrics..Use the seach engine on here for an easy how to ..
Good luck
Cheers Ian

[Astraeus]

Hi Mate

I had a fuel issue with mine. Perhaps not the same but worth checking. Access to internal pump via hatch under rear nearside passenger seat. The fuel pump and filter in one submerged unit. The pump has a habit of working loose and then as soon as under any load it just recycles fuel back into tank. The fix for this is via a little clip that you can get off here. It appears that the pump has not parted to the eye but that is exactly what it has done. Even if this is not fault you must do this or it will happen. I will have a look for link and post link.
If this is what it is (I suspect it is) it is a very cheap fix. The garage couldn't find my fault!!!! One post on here and problem solved.
Hope it is what yours is

Chris

Here is the link with how to change and a picture of part with part number. Think I got mine from Rimmers. I also changed the seals when I had it out anyway but clip should sort it (assuming that is what it is)
http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=58868

My symptoms were not starting, but when you pulled fuel line it appeared to be pushing fuel through but not under any load when connected back up. Had the garage foxed!!!

[Astraeus]

Hi

Rimmers it was

about £6

http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-WJC000230


Good luck Chris

[martinwillmott]

its not the clip, its to do with pipes between the pump and the filter being wrongly connected or missing, the filter has 2 pipes, one from the pump which is supplying the fuel (that's fine) but the other one is cut off, I dont know where it used to go, I,m wondering if it was some sort of return or is there something else missing?

The car runs while there is fuel in the r/s (pump side) of the tank but as well as supplying the engine its pumping fuel over to the l/s (filter side) of the tank until theres none left for the pump

[T-Cut]

The pipework and fuel flows in the tank are complex and I'll tell you how I understand the system. The pump has an inlet that's submerged in a cup, which is always kept full regardless of car motion and tank levels. The pump delivers fuel at high pressure to the filter unit (LHS). The filter module incorporates a pressure regulator. This controls fuel pressure to the engine, which is lower than the pumped pressure. The pressure regulated flow for the engine exits the filter unit via the pipe union at the top/cap.
The pressure regulator in the module releases excess HP fuel into a return line. This line incorporates a static pumping device (venturi or eductor) at either end. The LHS venturi picks up (scavenges) fuel from the left half and transfers it to the RHS via a LP pipe. This flow is picked up in the RH venturi, which discharges it into the swirl cup. Thus, the levels in each side of the tank are biased towards the RHS containing the pump. Fuel in the LHS is what overflows the central hump. No fuel is specifically pumped from the RHS to the LHS. This system is mirrored in the diesel tank and is much misunderstood and another topic.
The tank therefore has three pipes connecting the pump module to the filter module. One is the HP delivery from the pump. The second is the HP bleed-off from the regulator and the third is the LP scavenger pipe.

As a matter of interest, it is one or more of these pipes which is responsible for FFS in later petrol models. The pipes are made from rigid plastic so are pretty well 'fitted' into the tank between pump and filter unit. Unfortunately, they impart a thrust on the lower filter casing which is in a clockwise direction as you look down into the tank. Over time and probably assisted by vibration, this thust can cause the filter body to turn. Because the cap/body connection is a rather coarse bayonet arrangement, it doesn't take much movement to loosen the joint enough for the HP pump to be compromised. The regulator sees under-pressurised fuel and doesn't deliver it as required. The ECU sees under-pressure in the supply and inhibits sparking. By then, you have full blown FFS.

TC

[martinwillmott]

The pipework and fuel flows in the tank are complex and I'll tell you how I understand the system. The pump has an inlet that's submerged in a cup, which is always kept full regardless of car motion and tank levels. The pump delivers fuel at high pressure to the filter unit (LHS). The filter module incorporates a pressure regulator. This controls fuel pressure to the engine, which is lower than the pumped pressure. The pressure regulated flow for the engine exits the filter unit via the pipe union at the top/cap.
The pressure regulator in the module releases excess HP fuel into a return line. This line incorporates a static pumping device (venturi or eductor) at either end. The LHS venturi picks up (scavenges) fuel from the left half and transfers it to the RHS via a LP pipe. This flow is picked up in the RH venturi, which discharges it into the swirl cup. Thus, the levels in each side of the tank are biased towards the RHS containing the pump. Fuel in the LHS is what overflows the central hump. No fuel is specifically pumped from the RHS to the LHS. This system is mirrored in the diesel tank and is much misunderstood and another topic.
The tank therefore has three pipes connecting the pump module to the filter module. One is the HP delivery from the pump. The second is the HP bleed-off from the regulator and the third is the LP scavenger pipe.

As a matter of interest, it is one or more of these pipes which is responsible for FFS in later petrol models. The pipes are made from rigid plastic so are pretty well 'fitted' into the tank between pump and filter unit. Unfortunately, they impart a thrust on the lower filter casing which is in a clockwise direction as you look down into the tank. Over time and probably assisted by vibration, this thust can cause the filter body to turn. Because the cap/body connection is a rather coarse bayonet arrangement, it doesn't take much movement to loosen the joint enough for the HP pump to be compromised. The regulator sees under-pressurised fuel and doesn't deliver it as required. The ECU sees under-pressure in the supply and inhibits sparking. By then, you have full blown FFS.

TC
So it would seem I need to attach another pipe from the filter (where the missing orange one was) and run that to the r/h/s so it fuells the r/h/s instead of just bellowing out in the left? you see the pipes in the tank were all missing when I bought the car, this is all thats really wrong and I paid £510 for it 54 plate, bargain?

[suffolk boy]

probaly be just as easy to get a secondhand pump with the pipe work

[T-Cut]

- - - - this is all that's really wrong and I paid £510 for it 54 plate, bargain?

Certainly was, if that's true.

TC

[T-Cut]

So it would seem I need to attach another pipe from the filter (where the missing orange one was) and run that to the r/h/s so it fuels the r/h/s

As long as the pipe is connected to the correct places each end, it should be OK. I assume the pipe was pulled from a pair of connectors, so are obvious?

Is it likely that this car was simply suffering from FFS and nobody could figure out what was wrong? If so, that's the best deal I've seen yet.

TC

[martinwillmott]

probaly be just as easy to get a secondhand pump with the pipe work
I'm looking but all the pumps i've seen look different to mine

[crofts]

I'm looking but all the pumps i've seen look different to mine

Not an expert here but maybe it is not even the right pump for your car.
From memory the Peugeot pump, which some members have removed the actual pump from and transplanted into the rest of their Rover pump assembly,
looks idential or nearly so to the complete Rover pump assembly.
Could try breakers and look at the pump in situ & buy on a return if faulty basis.
At least you would see the pipe connections etc.

[T-Cut]

I believe the Peugeot pump transplant relates to the diesel models. Petrol pumps are pretty robust, though loads of owners have forked out hundreds of pounds to garages trying to fix FFS by trial and error.

TC

[WillyHeckaslike]

Fuel filter pic if it helps: Click (http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/forum/imagehosting/127884f0596e1ca53e.jpg)

[crofts]

I believe the Peugeot pump transplant relates to the diesel models. Petrol pumps are pretty robust, though loads of owners have forked out hundreds of pounds to garages trying to fix FFS by trial and error.

TC

Quite right T-Cut, as usual. Just me, not as observant as I used to be..........age related I think ! ! THINK, that doesn't operate as well now as it used to either !