Might be one for Keith ?

[John Robins]

My Lagoon 2.5 auto Con.se tourer with hi-line , when I first aquired this car I soon learned that if the radio/tv is left on 3/4hrs the battery discharges to the no starting clicking relays point . I often leave the car for several days without use , last Christmas 3 weeks and never a problem starting , on wednesday I went to the car after 6 days and the battery was completely flat after charging I noticed the red led on the nav box was on , there is a continuous discharge (not measured) but the battery dies in about 24hrs.After starting various warning lights come on and go off including the yellow low battery light , when used I allways do long runs so the battery is left fully charged and the navigation system still works it seems the nav box red led is permantly on.

[Keith]

Yes I have seen that before.

The ICE system in the Hi-Line car does draw a fair amount of current in use without the engine running, when I was messing about last year upgrading to the Widescreen and playing with Ibus analysers I killed the battery to the point it would not crank the engine a couple of times, it does not take long.

I must admit though a couple of weeks later my battery died completely so the above was also an indication it was on the way out

The nav unit should shut down and the LED go out after a couple of minutes and the entire car should go to sleep once immobilised after about 15 minutes

Dee Cee measured the current a while ago
http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=1022

What I don't know is if the Nav unit decides to go to sleep on its own or is told to as obviously that would determine where to look for a problem if it is told to go to sleep I guess that is done by the BCU.

If your battery has gone flat unnoticed I would not expect the Nav unit to have suffered but perhaps the BCU has got hung and is not putting the car fully to sleep does the LED definitely not go off at all now as the difficulty you face is doing a battery disconnect reboot to see if that helps if it is staying on?

Try ejected the CD and then watching for a while

I tend to keep my cars on a trickle charger if not used weekly as even the alarm etc will flatten the battery eventually.

[John Robins]

Thanks Keith I shall fiddle tomorrow and take a chance on battery disconnection , firstly I'll take out the cd overnight if I blow the nav. box it will mean saving for a mk3/4 !

[anglaslt]

I tend to keep my cars on a trickle charger if not used weekly as even the alarm etc will flatten the battery eventually.

Hi Keith,
There was a lot of discussion on .org a year or so back on battery charging.
The V8 handbook is quite specific that the battery must be disconnected, and informed opinion seemed to support this.
I'd probably use a trickle charger more often if it wasn't for the pain of clearing out the boot and disconnecting the battery.
I tend to leave the car unlocked during long periods of inactivity. I presume this puts less drain on the battery (if any)? Dee Cee's analysis didn't give any figures for this mode after the car had gone to sleep.
Another question I'm not certain about is whether leaving the car battery disconnected for any length of time (and I'm talking weeks here) can upset the electronics.
Any thoughts?
Tom

[Keith]

I will go and have a read of my V8 manual in a bit I hadn't noticed that.
If you do leave it disconnected I would still keep it charged regularly as even in the open air a battery will discharge.

Nothing will happen to the electronics in your car that I know of, configuration is written to NV ram (Non Volatile) meaning it does not require a powered connection to be retained.

One thing that may suffer though if you have one and that is the battery backup for the alarm if that normally relies on the main battery being present so best to disconnect that as well.

[John Robins]

Keith whats a battery back-up device ? I recall it being on option but have no idea what it is or how it works but it sounds useful . Don't worry about using trickle chargers with a connected battery as long as you don't cause "flashes" on the terminals .

[Keith]

in reference to my post above the alarms on some cars have a backup battery to keep the sounder going if the main battery is disconnected. I have one on my 260

You can also buy a battery backup that normally connects via the cigar lighter these are primarily to save the radio from needing the code reentered if the main battery is being disconnected for a short period

[anglaslt]

in reference to my post above the alarms on some cars have a backup battery to keep the sounder going if the main battery is disconnected. I have one on my 260

You can also buy a battery backup that normally connects via the cigar lighter these are primarily to save the radio from needing the code reentered if the main battery is being disconnected for a short period

Keith,
Is the alarm back up a standard item on the 260? If so where is and what does it look like.
Good the sat nav system is not coded so that's one less thing to worry about.
Picking up on John Robins point about trickle charging when connected, it was the dire warning in the V8 handbook that "severe damage to the electical system may be caused" (or words to that effect) that raised the concern many months back. I know many people share John's view but for what's involved I now take the "better safe than sorry route".
Tom

[Keith]

Not 100% sure where the alarm backup battery is on the 260, on my 190 it is under the plenum cover

my 260 and 190 manuals both so charge the battery with it disconnected
this is a sensible precaution many battery chargers use cheap regulation and could be damaging

I would not use one of those but things like optimate designed to maintain a battery in a charged state should be ok

I used mine all last year on my 75 CDT my Picasso and my Tractor without problem

but if in doubt disconnect it first.

[John Robins]

I removed the nav. unit after discharging the battery , charged the battery and re-fitted the nav.unit , unfortunately the nav. unit led remains on , any other suggestions before I seek professional help ? Will T4 be of any help in identiyfing the problem ?

[Keith]

T4 does do nav diags, not sure what it will tell you though.
It may help to identify if the problem is with the BCU not telling it to go to sleep or it may show there is something else wrong and that nothing in your car is going to sleep properly.

This is a tricky one, how far are you from R A Wright in Preston? 01254 820082 as he has T4 and specialises in electrical repairs so may have a better understanding of what tells what to do what when the units shutdown

Or from me in Ellesmere? as I would just do the easy thing first and swap out the Nav comp with one of mine to see if the fault remains or not.

hth

[jim_mcglynn]

I may be stating the obvious here, and possibly missed it in the posts above, (so apologies) but doesn't the computer kick into life when you open the boot? Could that be why your LED always seems to be on?

I can still hear (what I presume to be) the computer fans operating after locking the car. Then, when it eventually turns off (not sure how long), if I open the boot it starts again and the red light is on.

I'm off to the car park now to double check...

[Keith]

The fan is probably the one in the TV tuner in the spare wheel well, it runs on for a while and is a bit noisy without the engine running for my liking

[jim_mcglynn]

....just checked my car.

The "fan" noise was off when I went to the car.

Opened the boot without unlocking the car, and the Red LED was on, and the Fans kicked in.

Left the boot open for 5 mins, and the fan went off, as did the Red LED.

Unlocked the car (boot STILL open) and heard the fan kick in again, and the Red LED came on.

Could that be the issue ?

Again, apologies if I'm stating the obvious and it's not this.

[Keith]

Jim that is exactly what should happen

Johns problem is the Nav comp led never goes out so it means his nav comp is not shutting down and going to sleep, this will flatten the battery faster than normal so is not good.

John worth checking though, I trust the fan noise from the TV tuner does stop after a couple of minutes, if so then the TV tuner is shutting down ok and that would underline the fact that I think your Nav Comp is at fault

NavTVMan on Ebay is now offering a repair service and you can run the car ICE system without the Nav comp installed.

[John Robins]

Thanks Keith your offer is much appreciated but I'm in Hertfordshire just north of London - just going down to my X-part dealer for a chat ! As my car is a tourer I can look into the boot without opening and with the "flap" open , get sight of the nav. box .

[John Robins]

I don't remember hearing a fan running and have just been to the car and there's no noise at all , where's the fan and what activates it ?

[Keith]

If you can't hear the fan don't worry about it they are supposed to be silent but get noisy with age, I have disconnected the one in my Saloon as the tuner does not get hot enough imho to warrant it being on

it is under the big plastic curved cover on the left in the spare wheel well

[John Robins]

Just returned after cycling to my X-part dealer , they are an independant and , after having my Daughters car serviced plus an oil change on the '75 I trust them with mechanical repairs . Anyway their "getting out the T4" on Saturday morning, "not had it long" so we shall see what they/it comes up with .

[John Robins]

I have been T4'd this morning came up with a number of obscure faults including poor battery voltage , they claimed to have added improved software and I lost my speed locking ! Recomended replacement battery , which I've had done - but the nav. led is still on , garage claimes T4 does not diagnose sat.nav. faults but does check BCU and it is apparently OK . I guess the only way is a substitute nav. box , er Keith , If it is the box I might as well go for a mk3 and try to get the mk2 repaired as a spare . All ideas gratefully received !

[Keith]

Well that's dealers for you !
So you have a MK2? if so it has an external GPS receiver mounted on top of the Nav comp bracket with a Black plug going to it that is no required for a Mk3 so you disconnect the black plug and relocate the gps aerial lead to the socket on the MK3

[John Robins]

It sounds as if i've got this wrong ! I thought all Hi-Lines had a mk2 unit , mine has the red/blue muti-plugs one side at the rear and a thin black lead with a 90 degree angle plug on the other side is this a mk1 ?

[Keith]

Early cars had the MK2 then probably from 2001 on they had MK3s
this should help

http://www.x5world.com/articles/all-bmw/navigation/9458-bmw-navigation-system-faq.html

[John Robins]

I had not realised Rovers were that advanced , looking at those pictures mine must be a mk3 . Did you sell your mk3 ? If so I shall have to go hunting on E-bay , thanks for the info.

[John Robins]

I have spoken to NavTvMan regarding the repair of my nav. box , having explained the fault (not switching off) he said it was an internal fault and could'nt be repaired . He is able to supply a BMW type mk3 and disc for £180 does this seem the way to go ?

[Keith]

Yep if £180 is ok as a straight buy I would not PX your old one at that price or you can get a MK4 for approx another £200 + P&P

Either way you can then put your old MK3 on Ebay describe the faults symptoms in the add and you will still get a few quid for it or keep it until you sell the car then refit it and sell the BMW one.

[John Robins]

Thanks Keith I'll go ahead with the replacement and keep the "old" one. I keep meaning to ask what's happened to the Russian parts site I found it very useful !

[Keith]

John just a thought having read something on Bimmer Nav.
See if the local dealers has the Sat Nav operating system CD they should have it and use it to reload the Rover firmware, that might just do the trick, worth a try. If they dont have the disk I do, so once you get a BMW unit you are welcome to send the duff one here and I will give it a go.

[John Robins]

I have just received a " new " sat.nav. box from Navman in Birmingham with a 2006 TMC disc and all is successfully installed ,switching itself on and off ,curing my original problem. I seem to have a different radio display and a split screen on GPS also it very quickly found itself by showing my address in a few minutes despite the car being in the garage . May I ask one of our experts to advise how to get the best from my new toy .

[John Robins]

I guess from this we have learnt that it is the nav box that decides when to switch on and off not the BCU .

[Keith]

John go in to the set screen

Does it say 3-1/63 in the top right? if so you have a BMW MK3 unit so split scrren nav is an option from the set menu and it will display also full TMC info

Another member bought one from him which I fitted, the CD he received did not support TMC although it was so labelled

[John Robins]

Thanks Keith , yes it has 3-1/63 top right the TMC turns green when I select Classic fm and I think its a different lady talking , but there is a horrible BMW comes on the screen when first switched on . What additional features can I expect over the previous unit ?
I seem to have lost colour definition the screen is now black and silver ( TV's still in colour ) and can I lose the BMW logo please !

[JohnDotCom]

Yes this can be done (getting rid of BMW Logo) on some MK3's and all MK4s as well as lots of other alterations. go to http://www.x5world.com and search all your answers are there.

[Keith]

Thanks Keith , yes it has 3-1/63 top right the TMC turns green when I select Classic fm and I think its a different lady talking , but there is a horrible BMW comes on the screen when first switched on . What additional features can I expect over the previous unit ?
I seem to have lost colour definition the screen is now black and silver ( TV's still in colour ) and can I lose the BMW logo please !

The BMW splash on the MK3 can be removed although I have not tried it yet on mine, I think the current procedure is a bit more involved than on the MK4 look for posts by KiwiJochen on X5World

As for the colour that is odd have you tried both colour choices from the set menu you should have a Blue or Brown scheme if not you better check none of the pins in the Nav comp are bent (I doubt it if the TV works but you never know) and if all appears ok it may be faulty

[John Robins]

Thanks Keith and John , what I should of said is that I have lost colour on the Radio display and smaller writing otherwise seems ok . When I was using the car less nav box the radio display changed colour every time I started the car , Keith , if you need something to do on those cold winter nights up north I'll send the "old" nav box for you to fiddle with .

[JohnDotCom]

Thanks Keith and John , , Keith , if you need something to do on those cold winter nights up north I'll send the "old" nav box for you to fiddle with .
John, If Keith is Up North with Cold Winter Nights, where the hell am I?

[Keith]

Thanks Keith and John , what I should of said is that I have lost colour on the Radio display and smaller writing otherwise seems ok . When I was using the car less nav box the radio display changed colour every time I started the car , Keith , if you need something to do on those cold winter nights up north I'll send the "old" nav box for you to fiddle with .

I will PM you an address I have the proper MGR sat Nav OS CD so can blast it with that and see what happens
If it works are you going to the March Meets as I can give it back there?

If that does not work I am working with a guy in New Zealand on BMW nav coding issues wouldn't it be nice if we could find a way to upgrade the Rover ones as well :)

John, If Keith is Up North with Cold Winter Nights, where the hell am I?

I am "Up North" in relation to those "Down South" which is the West of England if you look at the Map so you must also be in the West Country only up and left a bit more

god knows where that leaves Somerset Devon Dorset etc. ;)

[JohnDotCom]

I

I am "Up North" in relation to those "Down South" which is the West of England if you look at the Map so you must also be in the West Country only up and left a bit more

god knows where that leaves Somerset Devon Dorset etc. ;)
It means its a * long way to drive to Meets!!
Need more up in "The North"
I know Wales is another Country to the North West But up slightly further North than you, but that stetch of water, means I have to drive In to go back out. Did MGR do a HoverCraft Attachment? Now that would be handy.

[John Robins]

John , your in God's country , wonderful Wales , in the home counties it seems every spare piece of land is being built upon , old houses come down and 4/6 "executive" houses go on a plot previously occupied by one .

[John Robins]

Thanks Keith ,that sounds great .

[JohnDotCom]

John , your in God's country , wonderful Wales , in the home counties it seems every spare piece of land is being built upon , old houses come down and 4/6 "executive" houses go on a plot previously occupied by one .
Yes this is a Lovely part of the Country to Live "Where the Mountains Meet the Sea" relaxed way of Life, Low Crime, lots of property for your Money and Most of all nice people. (Pain in the *** Chief Constable but we won't go there). My Brother on visits from way down South often asks why don't I build 4 or 5 Houses in my Back Garden, he says in my road there would be enough room for a large housing development down South!

[Keith]

Same here, if I bulldozed my Bungahigh I could probably get a good few dethatched "executive" boxes on my plot and if they sold at South Eastern prices I could then retire on the proceeds.

As it is the pond looks very nice today we had attracted a couple of swans and a goose or three this morning or overnight who were hiding from the high winds.