Black engine oil after full service [Archive] - The 75 and ZT Owners Club Forums

Topgear16

29th July 2012, 09:50

i just had a full service at an independant garage who i have used before with no problems, however this time my engine oil looks thick and black, and i have only driven 30 miles since it was done, i am thinking that the oil was never changed, or do some oils go black very quickly?

mamasboy

29th July 2012, 09:57

It's normal for it to be black almost straight away.

T-Cut

29th July 2012, 10:07

There's always a significant proportion of the old oil left inside when fresh oil is added. It really depends on how long the drain down is given. And time is money for commercial operations. However, some parts of the engine will never drain down. Think about an oil cooler for example, but there are lots of small places in all engines and they all add up. The only time an engine has completely fresh oil is when it's first filled at the factory. If you measure the volume of old oil removed it's typically less than you expected. It also explains why you'll not always need the volume of new oil that's stated in the Handbook.

hotrodinstraycat

29th July 2012, 10:34

I have about 6k on the oil in mine and honestly its still golden brown? I don't disagree with any of the previous comments but am suprised that it's so dirty already.

Unclefista

29th July 2012, 10:42

rovexCDTi

29th July 2012, 10:42

On a diesel yes it will go black rapidly, but a petrol? Never have on any of my cars, not really black anyway.

shadowfax

29th July 2012, 10:43

Diesel engines go black very quickly although not necessarily in 30 miles. Petrol cars should not go black as quick. I didn't see what engine you had, but if it's petrol I would guess that it's not been changed. Is the oil filter new? I presume that this should have been changed also?

rizel23

29th July 2012, 10:47

should be golden brown on the petrol, mine was done a few Ks back and still golden brown

jonathan63

29th July 2012, 10:48

I have about 6k on the oil in mine and honestly its still golden brown? I don't disagree with any of the previous comments but am suprised that it's so dirty already.
So am I. I would expect the oil in a deisel to go black quite quickly but not in a petrol engine. Did they replace the oil filter?
Even if they didnt replace the oil filter i would not expect fresh oil in a petrol engine to go black at all. Brown maybe after a few thousand miles, but not black. Personally I smell a rat. If it were my car Id want that oil out and fresh clean oil put in.

Just my opinion though, I cannot say that the garage didnt change it when they said they did.

vindaloo

29th July 2012, 11:11

The oil in a petrol car should NEVER be black, a diesel nearly always black.

SSmith

29th July 2012, 12:05

Maybe they put old oil from a diesel back in by mistake?

grivas

29th July 2012, 13:06

Black oil in a petrol engine after only 30 miles almost always EQUALS they carried out a very quick change, if at all, importantly have they changed the filter, I would question it, ask as to brand and exact specification, and don't be intimitated by the usual b*** s*** from garages, no oil should be that colour this early after a service no matter what.

jonathan63

29th July 2012, 13:14

I have just dipped the oil in my LS400 which has been in for 1,000 miles.
It is as clean as the day it was put in.
Even if the garage did change the oil (and I dont see how they could have if it is black), there is no excuse for not draining it ALL out.
All that black oil needs to come out and fresh oil put in.

Dodgy garage practices like this are the main reason I do all my own maintainance.

When I drain my own oil, I warm the engine first and leave it to drain until it stops dripping. Then, with the drain plug still out, i run about 1/2 lt of fresh oil though it and wait for that to top dripping, before replacing the plug and refilling. Easy.

Topgear16

29th July 2012, 13:24

Thanks guys for your replies, looks like they havent done an oil change, but charged me for it, i shall be going back to garage tomorrow am, and if no satisfactory explanation then i shall be kicking ***

Dorset Bob

29th July 2012, 13:29

This had happened to me in the past with a car under warranty being "serviced" by a main dealer.
The service manager tried to tell me that this happens on diesels, then I pointed out it was a petrol car, and therefore they had not changed the oil :D He backed off pretty quick and I wonder what else they didn't do :shrug:
I got them to do the oil change and, as expected, the oil was then clean.

If it was me I would take the car back to them, tell them that you are not happy, and get them to change the oil.

Edit : Sorry I have just seen that you are doing that anyway!!

James.uk

29th July 2012, 13:33

grivas

29th July 2012, 13:52

They prob forgot to do it. or each thought someone else had done it. These things happen innit... :o

In a busy garage with customers popping in and out, phones ringing, delivery vans calling, people getting picked up or dropping their cars off, mistakes do get made innit..
...

James you are a forgiving man and I commend for that, are we talking of the same busy garages with the same popping in and out customers, employing the same forgetful mechanics who have just forgotten to tighten your wheel nuts up and are they the same ones who are going to be picking up the pieces when your wheel comes off at 80mph on a busy m/w, if they have forgotten to change the oil on a main service schedule on my car I will never let them near my car again, you must ask yourself what else have they forgotten to do, I tell you what they have'nt forgotten to do, give you a great big invoice at the end. I am like you a forgiving man, but there is a limit, afterall oil is the blood of any engine.

Galleon

29th July 2012, 14:15

The oil in my 75 diesel went black as the ace of spades almost as soon as the car turned over after a service. I figured that there must be lots of oil traps in the engine keeping old oil in and immediately contaminating the new oil. I did an oil and filter change, then did another oil and filter change a few hundred miles later, then did another oil and filter change a few hundred miles after that. It's improved the situation hugely. I change oil every 7500 miles anyway and it now stays clean looking for much longer. If it gets back to a state where new oil dirtys too quickly for my liking then I'll do the flush through oil changes again.

rovexCDTi

29th July 2012, 14:17

Not necessary though. Oil is designed to be able to keep soot in suspension, that's why it black.

Galleon

29th July 2012, 14:28

Yeah but nothing's too good for my Rover and I can't let her go about with dirty oil! Perish the thought! Besides, even if oil is designed to keep particles in suspension it's surely better to at least start with the purest possible oil rather than it being perpetually dirty?

Anyhow it costs peanuts to do an oil and filter change and doing it every 7500 instead of the book interval of 15,000 is surely doing no harm?

jonathan63

29th July 2012, 14:39

James you are a forgiving man and I commend for that, are we talking of the same busy garages with the same popping in and out customers, employing the same forgetful mechanics who have just forgotten to tighten your wheel nuts up and are they the same ones who are going to be picking up the pieces when your wheel comes off at 80mph on a busy m/w, if they have forgotten to change the oil on a main service schedule on my car I will never let them near my car again, you must ask yourself what else have they forgotten to do, I tell you what they have'nt forgotten to do, give you a great big invoice at the end. I am like you a forgiving man, but there is a limit, afterall oil is the blood of any engine.
I couldnt agree more. Many years ago a "reputable" garage replaced a front ball joint on my wifes 5 yr old Montego deisel estate and took ot to his mate for the MOT. 5 miles later after picking up the car the whole wheel assembly came off the car because the bolt was missing from the new ball joint. My wife had just been doing 50mph but thankfully the wheel can off as she pulled into our drive.
Both the mechanic and the MOT station claimed that the bolt was there when it left them.
Yeh! sure it was. Lying B&^%$£"s
We all make mistakes but some of them kill people.

Jay160

29th July 2012, 14:45

Not to mention of what quality oil they are using .."cheap bulk stuff" ?
i gave up on trusting garages years ago after being ripped off to many times

i do most of my own stuff when i can.. i then know exactly whats going in and dont ending up paying extra for the parts to

SD1too

29th July 2012, 15:30

This is an interesting thread, as I too have done all my own servicing and repairs after a garage ripped me off in my first four years of driving.
... I tell you what they have'nt forgotten to do, give you a great big invoice at the end.
:clap: Brilliant!

I did an oil and filter change, then did another oil and filter change a few hundred miles later, then did another oil and filter change a few hundred miles after that. It's improved the situation hugely.
Nothing wrong with that, but an alternative is a single use of Comma Flushing Oil available from good motor factors.

Not necessary though. Oil is designed to be able to keep soot in suspension ...
It might be, but how do you feel about all those carbon particles being in close contact with your finely engineered bearings?

... doing it every 7500 instead of the book interval of 15,000 is surely doing no harm?
You're right, and it's actually preserving your engine in the best possible condition. People kindly praise the reliability of my classic Rover's engine at 170,000 miles. I have always changed the oil at between 3,000 - 6,000 miles which I like to believe is responsible. Oh, I also don't let garages near it! :D

Getting back to the OP's point and the resulting comments, I once changed the oil & filter in a friend's Citroen diesel and was also shocked to see it turn black almost immediately. I'd never seen such a thing with any petrol engine.

Simon.

Dorset Bob

29th July 2012, 15:46

My old Dad was an engineer and a stickler for cleanliness with engines. I guess he drummed it into me.

I remember being horrified to see at a garage a funnel, used for filling oil, on the floor amongst the dirt and grit. It was obviously used for everything else too, that happened to be fluid.
The cross contamination doesn’t bear thinking about.
I now use disposable oil funnels that I came across in the aviation industry, even on small top ups, like these :smilie_re: http://www.fastfunnel.co.uk

As an investment in my engine, I also use high quality synthetic oils, as I believe that it is a small price to pay, compared to a tank of petrol these days.

rathlindri

29th July 2012, 16:08

capese21

29th July 2012, 19:00

My 2.5 V6 ZTT oil after 500 miles.

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg303/capese21/OilDipStick.jpg

Still golden brown!!

I try to do all the maintenance on it.

Ed:}

SD1too

29th July 2012, 19:05

Still golden brown!!
Never a frown .... :D

Simon.

oldcarguy

29th July 2012, 19:51

With modern synthetic oils and regular changes it should stay relatively clean in a petrol engine.

capese21

29th July 2012, 19:52

Never a frown ....:D

The oil had the texture like sun
Every time I change the oil just like the last

Ed:p:

windrush

29th July 2012, 20:07

When I was an apprentice in 1948 that was one of my jobs to drain an engine and then flush it out I think that it was Red X that we used as flushing oil and this was done under supervision, I was not allowed to refill with fresh oil and as far as I can remember we only had Castrol XL and XXL

MangoMan

29th July 2012, 20:46

Well I say that it shouldn't be black - not even after 3000 miles let alone 30!

I always use an Engine Flush, (Wynn's) between changes on all the cars, always have.

http://i1110.photobucket.com/albums/h455/Rover-75-Club/Oil%20Dipstick/6f4ad86c.jpg

This is the colour of my oil after, must be at least a couple thousand miles. The photo isn't that good but it is a golden brown.

http://i1110.photobucket.com/albums/h455/Rover-75-Club/Oil%20Dipstick/3663e176.jpg

I know it's got nothing to do with it, but I just thought it looks nice, (And I was out there).....lol.... Sorry. :getmecoat:

http://i1110.photobucket.com/albums/h455/Rover-75-Club/Oil%20Dipstick/48b8bf00.jpg

But on a serious note - it shouldn't be black, no way..... :(

Topgear16

30th July 2012, 09:18

Hi Guys
thanks for all your input on this, i have been back to garage this morning, and the owner said he wasnt sure if oil had been changed but he assumed it had, he left it to a young lad to service my car and took his word that everything had been done correctly, he never checked the lads work at all, so i insisted that they change the oil and filter whilst i was there, so reluctantly they did and i stood next to my car watching, so another garage down the pan no longer will they get my custom, why cant they just do an honest days work and stop trying to rip people off they charge enough without looking for extra

rizel23

30th July 2012, 09:21

glad all has been sorted, what terrible 'service' !!!

MangoMan (http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/forum/member.php?u=12722) who did your engine cover/ Would love to have mine done in Trophy Blue!

MangoMan

30th July 2012, 10:02

glad all has been sorted, what terrible 'service' !!!

MangoMan (http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/forum/member.php?u=12722) who did your engine cover/ Would love to have mine done in Trophy Blue!

Hi, I got mine done by my Brother-in-Law a few months ago - was a bit of a 'mission' as he put it because it was covered in silicone. He eventually had to sand-blast all the covers to get it off!

Unfortunately he has moved jobs now though, sorry.

But to be honest I don't think he would undertake such a job again..... He said it was a nightmare!!!

But I do understand 'Cabbers' was doing it on here... :shrug:

Cheers.

Dorset Bob

30th July 2012, 10:59

I know it's got nothing to do with it, but I just thought it looks nice, (And I was out there).....lol.... Sorry. :getmecoat:

http://i1110.photobucket.com/albums/h455/Rover-75-Club/Oil%20Dipstick/48b8bf00.jpg

But on a serious note - it shouldn't be black, no way..... :(

The old coolant sticker is looking a bit tatty there Bill.
lol :D:getmecoat:

windrush

30th July 2012, 11:03

Most likely vanished over

Topgear16

30th July 2012, 13:55

i was under the impression this thread was about engine oil????????:confused:

MangoMan

30th July 2012, 14:15

You're quite right there TG16 - and I thought the reason for the initial inquiry was resolved, so I don't see by answering a question raised after that fact is such a big deal, after all it wasn't a big deal to go out at a quite late hour and take some photos, (for your benefit) to answer and advise on a query????????:confused:

I think you comment was un-called for, if not quite rude!

Barnowlnoddy

30th July 2012, 14:20

Sounds odd to me, even diesel engines need more than 30 miles to blacken the oil, a petrol engine's oil should be a dirty golden brown for the first couple of hundred miles at least.

Sounds like they've drained it quickly and left an amount of dirty oil in there before refilling..
I suppose Oil temperature has a bearing too - cool oil will not drain at all quickly. My diesels oil have been quite dark after changes. Doing it myself!

Topgear16

30th July 2012, 14:26

[QUOTE=MangoMan;1065603]You're quite right there TG16 - and I thought the reason for the initial inquiry was resolved, so I don't see by answering a question raised after that fact is such a big deal, after all it wasn't a big deal to go out at a quite late hour and take some photos, (for your benefit) to answer and advise on a query????????:confused: sorry if thought i was rude, but i thought each thread stuck to the subject in hand, but not to worry this is THE LAST POST i`m off bye bye