Diesel MAP Sensor

[rich17865]

Very expensive new, are there any alternative parts that do the same job?

Genuine part number MHK101060 Priced around £110-£150

[Arctic]

Very expensive new, are there any alternative parts that do the same job?

Genuine part number MHK101060 Priced around £110-£150

Hi Rich.
Very rare these go or break down usualy all they need is a good clean along with the EGR and manifold, is your question because you are having trouble with yours Arctic.

[rich17865]

Lots and lots of black smoke under full throttle, I replaced it on a previous vehicle and it cured it. I have already cleaned it with no joy.

I have already done all of the usual suspects, so I am going through the less likely causes now.

The only other thing to replace that I haven't done, is the pcv housing, but I don't know if this would cause black smoke?

[lightningmark]

Perhaps somebody would swap their known good one temporarily on a meet or rolling road day??

[Arctic]

Lots and lots of black smoke under full throttle, I replaced it on a previous vehicle and it cured it. I have already cleaned it with no joy.

I have already done all of the usual suspects, so I am going through the less likely causes now.

The only other thing to replace that I haven't done, is the pcv housing, but I don't know if this would cause black smoke?


HI Rich.
So EGR is clean, O-rings ok as in not leaking or have been changed to viton ones, MAF is ok air filter clean PCV filter not cloged or as been changed in the last 12 months, have you had the manifold off and gave that a good cleaning or did you just remove the MAP and clean that, i am sure someone like Rotex (Tam ) or one of the other traders would have a MAP sensor you could purchase and change to see if it is the MAP for sure but i would double check all the other items first if you have not done so already Arctic.

[Singvogel]

Lots and lots of black smoke under full throttle, I replaced it on a previous vehicle and it cured it. I have already cleaned it with no joy.

I have already done all of the usual suspects, so I am going through the less likely causes now.

The only other thing to replace that I haven't done, is the pcv housing, but I don't know if this would cause black smoke?

Do you mean the pcv filter innerds or the housing /cover?

A dirty pcv filter, or oil-separator as BMW call it, will give you extra smoke - a blocked pcv will give you lots of smoke. It also leads to pressure build up in the engine and causes oil to escape from the dip-stick.

I am not sure what difference a faulty cover makes as the only thing there is a spring and gasket affair.

Best fit a whole new BMW uprated part. if there is any doubt.

I believe BMW fit a whole new pcv separator and cover every 60K

Singvogel

[HarryM1BYT]

Very expensive new, are there any alternative parts that do the same job?

Genuine part number MHK101060 Priced around £110-£150

Buying new parts, on a guess that the old is faulty is an expensive way to diagnose problems. The much cheaper way is to run some diagnostics on it.

You can buy USB/bluetooth diagnostic units for as little as £10 these days, which you plug into a laptop. You could even monitor the voltage output from the MAP with an ordinary multi-meter, see if the value changes and compare it to valid figures.

[Frank Incensed]

Rich, I think you and me need our injectors testing.
http://www.peemac.com/resource/fert/tips5.html
If you mess around with the system whist it's under pressure, be careful. Apparently the high pressure diesel spray can penetrate the skin and cause blood poisoning.:(

[rich17865]

Rich, I think you and me need our injectors testing.
http://www.peemac.com/resource/fert/tips5.html
If you mess around with the system whist it's under pressure, be careful. Apparently the high pressure diesel spray can penetrate the skin and cause blood poisoning.:(

I had them checked by marinabrian 2 weeks ago and while leaking a little it is within normal operating limits. :shrug:

[Frank Incensed]

There are several things that can be wrong with the injector system, as pointed out in that fault finder I placed a link to.
I think I'm going to try to find out what's wrong with Eliza Doolittle by having her take a Roschach's test in reverse.;)
She makes the patterns and someone else interprets them.:D

[vindaloo]

Good link Robert, but I don't think I'll be travelling to Islamabad to have my injectors tested:getmecoat:

[vindaloo]

There are several things that can be wrong with the injector system, as pointed out in that fault finder I placed a link to.
I think I'm going to try to find out what's wrong with Eliza Doolittle by having her take a Roschach's test in reverse.;)
She makes the patterns and someone else interprets them.:D

I presume you mean a RORSCHACH (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rorschach_test) test;)

[Frank Incensed]

I presume you mean a RORSCHACH (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rorschach_test) test;)

Yes, that's the fellow. Herman... who couldn't even spell his own name (first or last:D)
You'd be amazed at how many people get my name wrong! (or maybe not:D:D:D)

[Frank Incensed]

Good link Robert, but I don't think I'll be travelling to Islamabad to have my injectors tested:getmecoat:

And I had you down as being a bit of a travelling man, Jim!:D

[vindaloo]

And I had you down as being a bit of a travelling man, Jim!:D

Within reason Robert........within reason:D

[rich17865]

So what figures should I be getting from the map sensor?

I have torque pro so I should be able to check its output

[Frank Incensed]

So what figures should I be getting from the map sensor?

I have torque pro so I should be able to check its output

I'll check tonight if it says in the M47R manual, Rich. Unless someone beats me to it. Not sure if it gives details.:shrug: All I think I can remember is that it's a non-linear analogue readout and if it ceases to function, the ECM defaults to pretending it's something like 900 millibars absolute and disables the EGR.
Meanwhile here's some info on MAP sensors, their outputs, their use in other manufacturers engines and what happens when they fail. I really don't think you have the symptoms of MAP sensor malfunction and I think you're barking.... (up the the wrong tree):D

http://www.aa1car.com/library/map_sensors.htm

Robert

[Arctic]

I'll check tonight if it says in the M47R manual, Rich. Unless someone beats me to it. Not sure if it gives details.:shrug: All I think I can remember is that it's a non-linear analogue readout and if it ceases to function, the ECM defaults to pretending it's something like 900 millibars absolute and disables the EGR.
Meanwhile here's some info on MAP sensors, their outputs, their use in other manufacturers engines and what happens when they fail. I really don't think you have the symptoms of MAP sensor malfunction and I think you're barking.... (up the the wrong tree):D

http://www.aa1car.com/library/map_sensors.htm

Robert

Hi Robert
If it ceases to function and the ECM pretends its 900 millibars absolute and disables the EGR how do those whom have bypassed the EGR get on with a reading and working of the MAP just a thought

[Frank Incensed]

So what figures should I be getting from the map sensor?

Hi Rich

More links to give you technical overload. The youtube clip shows how to test a MAP sensor and the items from Bosch describe how their MAP sensors are constructed, how they work and give their specifications.
Hope this is of some use and helps you eliminate the MAP sensor as being the culprit

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8EVhFc5Yqw&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8EVhFc5Yqw&feature=related)

http://www.bosch.com.au/content/language1/downloads/Map_Sensor_Purpose_and_Function.pdf (http://www.bosch.com.au/content/language1/downloads/Map_Sensor_Purpose_and_Function.pdf)

http://www.bosch.com.au/content/language1/downloads/Map_Sensor_Technical_Specification.pdf (http://www.bosch.com.au/content/language1/downloads/Map_Sensor_Technical_Specification.pdf)


Robert

[Frank Incensed]

Hi Robert
If it ceases to function and the ECM pretends its 900 millibars absoluteand disables the EGR how do those whom have bypassed the EGR get on with a reading and working of the MAP just a thought



Hi Arctic

I’m afraid I don’t know the answer to your question.:(
However, I can now quote from the M47R manual and you’ll have to interpret it, as I haven’t got a clue.:shrug:
"The boost pressure sensor signal is a non-linear analogue signal. It is dependent on the absolute pressure and air temperature in the intake manifold to calculate volume air flow into the engine. If this sensor fails, a substitute value of 900 millibars is used by the ECM producing a reduction in power due to a fuel quantity limiting and EGR shut off."
This is the same manual that says of the MAF: "If the ECM detects that the mass airflow / temperature sensor has failed, the instrument pack warning lamp will be illuminated and the ECM will not attempt to operate EGR."
Well, I’ve never heard anyone say they’ve had a warning light go on when they’re MAF failed.:shrug: I certainly didn’t get one when mine packed up.
The more I find out about all the sensors and anti-pollution devices modern engines use, the more sceptical I become about their alleged purpose. I’m really beginning to think that they don’t make the engine any more environmentally friendly if the engine is functioning as it should. What they seem to do is effectively stop an engine being used, if the sensor / valve indicates there’s something wrong, or if the sensor / valve itself fails. Basically, if the ECM thinks the car isn't running right or if the PCV or the EGR gets too mucky, it tries to make you do something about it, rather than leaving you to carry on regardless. Is this to save the environment, or simply a way of generating revenue?:shrug::(

[rich17865]

The reason I suspect a map sensor is because of the overfuelling. I had mountains of black smoke from my Mercedes van. I cleaned the map sensor with little result. But a new one completely transformed it and stopped the black smoke.

I think it is a good guess, but will plug it in and check.

[vindaloo]

Isn't the over fuelling because of the re-map?

[rich17865]

Isn't the over fuelling because of the re-map?

Yes, but everything has to be 100% when using a remap or the problems are made bigger.

Other marinabrian remap owners do not report smoke like mine.

[vindaloo]

Yes, but everything has to be 100% when using a remap or the problems are made bigger.

Other marinabrian remap owners do not report smoke like mine.

Are they Auto or Manual?

[rich17865]

Ah yes, manuals, damn it, that puts play to my ideas.

[Frank Incensed]

Ah yes, manuals, damn it, that puts play to my ideas.

I've read posts from people claiming the brand of diesel they use affects the amount of smoke produced. And some who've said that the less expensive brands smoke less in their cars.:shrug:
Try different fuels. Anyway, we might have something more to go on after Saturday.:D

[Froggy-Mk2]

Europarts have them for £50, with club discount :D

[. hammer]

Europarts have them for £50, with club discount :D

I can't find it!

[wuzerk]

Having watched the recommended video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8EVhFc5Yqw&feature=related
I tried to check my Map sensor since I am now suffering surging on tickover.
I got as far as the following: Three contacts. BLUE/WHITE, GREEN/BROWN,
and WHITE. GREEN/BROWN= chassis
BLUE/WHITE = 56.9 Ohms to GREEN/BROWN
WHITE =1.1 Ohms to GREEN/BROWN
Those are the readings with the plug disconnected from the sensor.
With the ignition on position 2 but the plug still disconnected I read
GREEN/BROWN to WHITE 4.94V
I was unable to check with the engine running and the plug reconnected as I found it impossible to attach my test clip with a pin soldered to it! Has anyone got the readings for the next stage please?

[lightningmark]

Europarts have them for £50, with club discount :D

I found one listed for year 2000 M47 engine BMW, euro part number 420110020
price £58.20 less 25% club discount so £43.65
Not sure if it`s this one or the one listed for same engine but years 2002-2004 part number 420110010 price £67.20 less our discount £50.40

[James.uk]

I have been told that my cars smokes when given some welly, but it can't be detected from the drivers position... :shrug: :D:D:D

Bearing in mind how the diesels work = to gain power add fuel. I fail to see how smoke can be avoided unless you apply all extra fuel gently as the engine revs increase. Any sudden input will temporarily overfuel the engine innit??

My first encounters with diesel engines were marine diesels in boats, and any sudden input of fuel always resulted in a big cloud of smoke. That was half the reason for putting the exhaust outlet under water innit.. .. :shrug:
...

[Jakg]

Other marinabrian remap owners do not report smoke like mine.
http://youtu.be/c_9zWYxf9X4

A little contrived, admittedly (only smokes like that full throttle off boost)

[Dave the rave]

Gutted i havent dropped on this meeting sooner , makes more sense than trolling around for maf sensor prices !!

[. hammer]

Mine's been smoking bad and totally gutless under load. Recent jobs include new maf sensor and viton intercooler o-rings. Minimal improvement. BG244 made a significant improvement to smooth running but smoke and power loss were still a problem.
A couple of days ago I unplugged the map sensor plug - massive improvement! I'll remove the sensor and try cleaning it. If that doesn't work I'll be shopping for a new one.
I know the map sensor is generally regarded as a less-likely cause when such problems occur but I honestly believe it should be moved up the list of checks to make when trying to rectify smoke/power issues.
I'll also be removing the inlet manifold for a thorough clean when the weather improves!

[FrenchMike]

Hi,

Very interesting!

Rave says :
In the event of a BP sensor failure,the ECM assumes a default pressure of 0.9 bar (13lbf/in2).

Waiting for the result

Mike

[Arctic]

Mine's been smoking bad and totally gutless under load. Recent jobs include new maf sensor and viton intercooler o-rings. Minimal improvement. BG244 made a significant improvement to smooth running but smoke and power loss were still a problem.
A couple of days ago I unplugged the map sensor plug - massive improvement! I'll remove the sensor and try cleaning it. If that doesn't work I'll be shopping for a new one.
I know the map sensor is generally regarded as a less-likely cause when such problems occur but I honestly believe it should be moved up the list of checks to make when trying to rectify smoke/power issues.
I'll also be removing the inlet manifold for a thorough clean when the weather improves!

Hi Steve.
I think you may have hit upon something ;) which i agree with you on take a look at the link below
http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=104733

[. hammer]

Arctic, it was actually your thread which prompted my investigations to take that direction so...... thank you, sir!

[Arctic]

Arctic, it was actually your thread which prompted my investigations to take that direction so...... thank you, sir!

Hi Steve.
I have two manifolds and two EGR's also two MAP sensors so if a member came to my house or to one of the midland meets and wanted to change the manifold EGR for a clean one i swap them over but i also swap the MAP over or clean theirs with some carb cleaner but do not spray directly onto the little hole on the map just make sure it is not blocked completely with crud

http://i46.tinypic.com/1zly9nk.jpg

http://i48.tinypic.com/2hciakn.jpg

http://i46.tinypic.com/30cnerl.jpg

as you can see from this pic the difference from a diesel car being driven round town and one from being driven daily up and down the motorway crud can build up really bad and looks like a mixture of fluff from a drier with oil mixed into it carbon build up
http://i49.tinypic.com/k4azw1.jpg

this also clogs up the small ports to the engine
http://i49.tinypic.com/1ewbc3.jpg

keep the EGR clean once cleaned it doe's not take much hard work every six months to check and clean again if you have to depending on how the build up is ;)
http://i46.tinypic.com/erx4py.jpg

[FrenchMike]

Having watched the recommended video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8EVhFc5Yqw&feature=related
I tried to check my Map sensor since I am now suffering surging on tickover.
I got as far as the following: Three contacts. BLUE/WHITE, GREEN/BROWN,
and WHITE. GREEN/BROWN= chassis
BLUE/WHITE = 56.9 Ohms to GREEN/BROWN
WHITE =1.1 Ohms to GREEN/BROWN
Those are the readings with the plug disconnected from the sensor.
With the ignition on position 2 but the plug still disconnected I read
GREEN/BROWN to WHITE 4.94V
I was unable to check with the engine running and the plug reconnected as I found it impossible to attach my test clip with a pin soldered to it! Has anyone got the readings for the next stage please?

Hi,

After cleaning:

http://rovermg1.free.fr/rovermg/thumbnails/i28CoQt7kL2AwV9Auafb.jpg (http://rovermg1.free.fr/rovermg/images/i28CoQt7kL2AwV9Auafb.jpg)

I have had the opportunity to test my MAP sensor dynamically:

Ign on 1.74 volt
Tickover 1.74
1000 rpm 1.76
2000 rpm 1.80
2500 rpm 2.07
3000 rpm 2.36 volt

i have in addition tested separately the sensor ,the output voltage rises to 5 volt
when 1.5 bar is applied ,so i don't think the item faulty.

Mike

[FrenchMike]

Some measurements on road :

http://rovermg1.free.fr/rovermg/thumbnails/fAzUB90DnytVOwcdu5ek.jpg (http://rovermg1.free.fr/rovermg/images/fAzUB90DnytVOwcdu5ek.jpg)

Mike