Cold air feed and filter upgrade

[Simon]

Hainvg discussed this in a previous (hijacked) thread between myself, M47Rman and MartinW, amoungst others I decided to create this new thread detailing exactly what I did and what the result is after I 'modified' my KV6 air feed. The previous thread was just us mostly throwing ideas around but here's what actually happened along with some quantifiable results. ;)


This morning, Mr.Postman delivered my ITG foam pannel filter which will help the car breathe a lot more easily than the standard paper filter. :D

Then came the hacking and screwing and pulling and tugging and general contorting body into strange shapes to remove the 'shannon tube' from the lower half of the airbox. This is a photo of the tube in place (borrowed from Kandyman, so I hope you don't mind :o) The tube is the woven tube with mud splattered on it.
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i112/kandyman01/Rover%2075/Headlights003.jpg

This tube is easy to remove with the bumper removed, but I managed to do it by removing the lower quarter-pannel from the underside of the car along with the headlight access pannel. Not the easiest thing to do through these holes but managable.

The next thing is to remove the blanking plate from inside the front bumper (ZT bumper, pre-facelift. Not sure about other bumpers)

A big thanks to MartinW for his original instructions on how to do this mod, so I suppose all the spoils should go to him for showing me how its done :clap: ;)

My findings are in the next post...

[Simon]

The original air feed tube pointed into a small gap just in front of the wheel arch liner. This location suffers from restricted air flow (the tube points at large metal structures) and from air that is warm and non-moving from the engine bay.

This original set up allows low-density warm air to feed the engine which is not ideal.

The new set up which draws air directly from outside via a free-flowing tube with unrestricted access allows the engine to breathe as it should - with cold, denser air.

The results from my test drive confirm it all.

Pre-mod results: Engine bay hot, coolant hot, filter box and inlet manifold all hot to touch. Engine response is as everyone knows (poor bellow 3000rpm and sometimes suffers if you put your foot down on an incline when the revs are low, even if your road-speed is high).

Post-mod results: Engine bay hot. Coolant hot. Filter box and inlet manifold are cold to touch (approximately that of outside air temperature). Engine response is improved (freer revving below 3000rpm and a much better response when you put your foot down in a high gear, regardless of road speed).

All in all, I'd say we have a conclusive result. Success! :D

The next stage is sorting the actual bumper hole out propperly. At the moment there is potential for water-ingress into the air feed. Unfortunately the shannon tube was too brittle and non-plyable to allow me to construct a U-bend in it to help stop water intake. I will continue to look into ways to make this set up a bit more weather-friendly! ;)

Once again a big thanks to M47Rman for his expert advice and to MartinW for his original idea! :clap: :lol:

[MartinW]

Simon
Glad to hear that I was not just imagining my improvements, too! Superb to hear you have found the same benefits.

Keep us posted on the upgrade and for anyone wanting to see my finished article and mods, look below my signature for the link...

[M47Rman]

The original air feed tube pointed into a small gap just in front of the wheel arch liner. This location suffers from restricted air flow (the tube points at large metal structures) and from air that is warm and non-moving from the engine bay.

This original set up allows low-density warm air to feed the engine which is not ideal.

The new set up which draws air directly from outside via a free-flowing tube with unrestricted access allows the engine to breathe as it should - with cold, denser air.

The results from my test drive confirm it all.

Pre-mod results: Engine bay hot, coolant hot, filter box and inlet manifold all hot to touch. Engine response is as everyone knows (poor bellow 3000rpm and sometimes suffers if you put your foot down on an incline when the revs are low, even if your road-speed is high).

Post-mod results: Engine bay hot. Coolant hot. Filter box and inlet manifold are cold to touch (approximately that of outside air temperature). Engine response is improved (freer revving below 3000rpm and a much better response when you put your foot down in a high gear, regardless of road speed).

All in all, I'd say we have a conclusive result. Success! :D

The next stage is sorting the actual bumper hole out propperly. At the moment there is potential for water-ingress into the air feed. Unfortunately the shannon tube was too brittle and non-plyable to allow me to construct a U-bend in it to help stop water intake. I will continue to look into ways to make this set up a bit more weather-friendly! ;)

Once again a big thanks to M47Rman for his expert advice and to MartinW for his original idea! :clap: :lol:

Thanks for the mention Simon. Very good news that you have engineered an improvement. I look forward to seeing your weather proofing improvments in the near future - particularly topical at the moment as it is persisting down with rain here!
Andy:lol:

[Simon]

Thanks for the suport guys. :lol:

Looking for some gauze now to make a debris-stop in place of the blanking plate as well as finding some suitable drain pipe (who'd have thought it would fit?! ;)) to make a labrynth. Hopefully it'll be done in a few days so I'll get some photos up of the finished product soon.

Next tuning stop.... exhaust system, ECU remap...? Who knows....! :D

[MartinW]

Don't forget to follow the link in my signature to see the how-to on fitting a new back-box. Moto-build is good, not sure about Xpower as I haven't heard theirs, but the M/B one certainlys bring a nice gruff growl in at 2-3000rpm.

If you want, next time I am passing Lichfield you can have a listen to mine.

My next step is the new cam belts, new brakes, new tyres... :( EXPENSIVE TIME! I was tempted at one point by the group buy elsewhere for the camshafts and vernier pulleys, but I think I shall get the MGOC w/s to try and up load the 75 map...

Good luck with the gauze and labrynth!

[Kandyman]

Martin is it worth doing the plumbers mod on mine R75 2.0L as mine is pictured above and I'm having trouble getting hold of a new one ?

The front of the 75 dosent have the the gap/blanking plate like your ZT did to mount the air intake there, any ideas ?

[MartinW]

Probably worth trying, it can only be cheaper, even if you have to make a snorkel arrangement to prevent water ingress. Agreed, you probably won't get the same benefit as the ZT gets with the vent, but no doubt you are more interested in a water-proof arrangement.

[GreyGhost]

Martin is it worth doing the plumbers mod on mine R75 2.0L as mine is pictured above and I'm having trouble getting hold of a new one ?

The front of the 75 dosent have the the gap/blanking plate like your ZT did to mount the air intake there, any ideas ?

Any pipework will do as long as it is the same cross section and takes approximately the same route. Is the original flexible one closed off in any way at the bottom end to prevent debris entering or is it open?
Failing a replacement I would be of a mind to remove it, recover the damaged sections by wrapping Gaffer tape around it. Providing it does not actually touch an overy hot components then it should last for some time, at least until a replacement comes on stream.

[Simon]

The shannon tube does not touch any hot engine components and actually points away from the engine block itself.

The tube is woven to allow air to pass through it but in reality air normally passes in through the open top (the bit that is normally sitting in front of the wheel arch liner, just behind the headlight acess plate)

Removing the shannon tube completely will leave the lower part of the air filter box open. If this is too low for your liking to risk water intake then normal drainpipe should fix onto it and allow you to construct a similar set up by having a pipe point upwards towards the wheel arch liner. Getting the pipe (especially a long one) into place is going to be the tricky part so you may have to remove the front bumper to give yourself sufficient access.

It depends on how much protection you want for your engine. The OEM set up is to provide the most protection from water/debris intake, while mine and Martin's intakes are designed for maximum cold air intake. Perhaps a comprimise between the two setups would suit yourself?

Hope this helps!

[Simon]

Just to clarify, here is the above picture with added red boxes ;)

The first box (lower left) highlights the shannon tube where it enteres the bottom of the filter box. This is the lowest point of the air feed system.

The second box (upper right) higlights where the shannon tube ends. This is the highest point in the system and is designed to stop the engine sucking in water/spray/debris.

http://www.donottumbledry.co.uk/mg_img_bin/tube001.jpg

[GreyGhost]

Ah yes now I have the full picture, some plastics could readily be made up to fit and would be generally self supporting. I presume Kandys is original and so is actually not in bad shape.

[Simon]

Kandyman originally wrote a thread saying that he wanted to replace this shannon tube because his had worn where the wires had rubbed on it. When I removed mine it also had signs of wear on. I don't think the wear is detrimental to the engine or air intake performance but obviously if the shannon tube started to dissintergrate too much then pieces of the tube could potentially be sucked into the filter causing it to become blocked much more quickly than usual.

As we've said, a bit of drainpipe and 5min later and you can construct a simple and effective subsititute that would certainly be up to the task.

[Simon]

Having got xmas over and done with! :rofl: it's now time I set about continuing with the air intake modification. For those of you who haven't read the previous posts now would be a good time to do so so you can get an idea for what I've already done.

The next stage I completed today. In order to help stop water-ingress into the airbox I've now used a cut-down length of shannon duct that points just to the side of the open vent in the bumper. This will hopefully be an improvement over the previous set up.

Whilst having my head wedged under the car (not a great position to be in...) I did notice that the wiring in the bumper area (although protected) was also getting wet. I intend to water proof the wiring, perhaps with liquid wax (such as waxoyl) or - even better - fixing an air-guide onto the back of the bumper vent to direct the air flow away from the wiring. I also intend replacing the shannon duct with a more suitable piping (such as aluminium ducting).

Stage 3: Well. This will be interesting. Stage three involves the ambitious task of using the drivers-side vent as a second air intake. Using more aluminiumm ducting to channel the air towards the airbox and converge the two into one just before the airbox. This obviously will require more work and possible the purchase and use of axle stands so I can get the undertray off for a propper look and play.

Watch this space....

[chris75]

There is a preventitive maintenance element to this as well . One of our European members drove through deep water and sucked in a bucketfull through the old damaged woven pipe . You may recall he wrecked his engine , but i can't locate the thread . Perhaps it was on the old site ............

[Simon]

There is a preventitive maintenance element to this as well . One of our European members drove through deep water and sucked in a bucketfull through the old damaged woven pipe . You may recall he wrecked his engine , but i can't locate the thread . Perhaps it was on the old site ............

Yeah - I remember that too. He drove through a flood after seeing someone else succesfully drive through it.

Water entering the engine results in very big badness. From what I recall it completely trashed everything from bending the crank arms to destroying the inlet manifold. Not good at all :oops: :(

Kandyman is in a similar position in that his shannon duct is damaged - his is the car in the picture above - To that extent he is looking to replace it. We have suggested (to him and others) that as an alternate to the shannon duct you can use drainpipe - it is the same diameter.

Using drainpipe as a direct replacement without altering the positioning would be the best solution for waterproofness but it would not aid engine breathing.

The modification I have done improves engine breathing but at the expense of weatherproofing. I cannot (really cannot under any circumstances) drive through a flooded road where the water level is more than a couple of inches - and even then I have to drive at less than 5mph to prevent splashing and spray. I don't even like driving in the rain :rolleyes:


Hope this helps you! :lol:

[Kandyman]

Yes it's my car in the picture :(

She is still in the same state as i have not got round to working on it yet, But now the new year is here i will be doing bits and pieces to her again.

I will make a post with pictures when i get round to doing the work :pic:

[Simon]

Looking forward to your write-up of how you get on Kandyman. It'll be particularly interesting how easy/difficult you find to get the new shannon duct in place. Are you planning on going the easy route with the front bumper off technique or are you going down the bendy-arm approach?

[mantianak]

I'm not much of a handy man so I'd be impressed if somebody can use this design and make a cyclonic separation system at the duct opening (wherever it may go)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclonic_separation

[Simon]

That's very apt you should be writing that as I too had the idea of creating such a system :eek:

The main thing a cyclonic system would have to do in a cold-air intake is remove water particles from the airflow. I already have a high-performance filter installed in the OEM airbox which on it's own increases engine breathing quite a bit. This filter does the job of removing dust and dirt from the airstream but it cannot remove exessive water vapour from the airflow (the vapour is too small to be trapped by the filter). I don't think a cyclonic system would have sufficient capabilities to remove water vapour. :(

I'll do a quick bit of research and see if it is possible to use cyclonic filtration to remove water vapour...

[Simon]

Cyclonic Filtration: Part 2.

Is it theoretically possible to filter water from air using a cyclone - Yes.
Can you do it at home - No.

It's just too darned difficult! :confused: :(

Seriously - You need to work out what the size of water vapour is (average) and then work out what dimensions and gradients should be used for the cyclone chamber plus you then need to carefully control the air flow - ie you would have to use forced-induction in order to generate sufficient airflow rates in order to sustain a cyclone. Anything less would cause the cyclone to collapse and allow all those water droplets back into the airbox. You'd also need somewhere for the water and dust partcicles trapped in the cyclone to be deposited in such away that they did not cause a blockage - but you couldn't just use a bigger vent hole as it would effect the cyclone...

... Does your brain hurt yet?

I think we can safely say this is not feasible in all reality - sorry folks! :( ;)

[mantianak]

Ditto.

The link says it's only 50% efficient, big particles are removed better than small ones. Not perfect but still reduces it some what though.
If rigged so air enters the cyclone direct or with a ram duct, the cyclone should become more efficient with speed. The faster you drive, the more particles it kicks out.
If the dirt exit was near a moving slip stream (exiting somewhere on the surface of or below the car), it may also increase the amount filter (or cycloned) out.

Problem is the ducts needed are large for a car. Might as well use a Dyson vacuum cleaner if it fits!

And by the way, can anybody think of more words in the English dictionary that have two U’s next to each other? So far I got vacuum and continuum.

[Simon]

And by the way, can anybody think of more words in the English dictionary that have two U’s next to each other? So far I got vacuum and continuum.

Uummm... ;)

[Simon]

Back to the water issue.....

The best way to stop water-ingress would be to construct a labrynth or a splash-guard to 'catch' the water and allow it to drain out (any remaining vapour should then be okay for the filter to deal with or not sufficient to cause problems with the engine)

What I'm aiming for here is a comprimise - something which will 'catch' spray and splashes but that will not necesarily prevent large volumes (eg flooded roads) from entering the ducting (this I can prevent by simply not driving through them).

I'm always thinking and trying to evolve my set-up to make it even better so any tips and information are all gratefully recieved.

The two-vent piping I am looking to install with also help prevent water ingress because if one duct becomes submerged or blocked air will simply be drawn from the other duct as it is the route of less resistance.

Also leaving a gap between the duct opening and the bumper will help stop splashes reaching the ducting.

[mantianak]

The best way to stop water-ingress would be to construct a labrynth or a splash-guard to 'catch' the water and allow it to drain out (any remaining vapour should then be okay for the filter to deal with or not sufficient to cause problems with the engine)

Maybe a large chunk of that garden pond filer sponge. Comes in various grades. The duct can be mounted at the top.

The two-vent piping I am looking to install with also help prevent water ingress because if one duct becomes submerged or blocked air will simply be drawn from the other duct as it is the route of less resistance.
The best way to avoid flood water is to have a boot scoop or hood scoop, both of which would look silly on a 75.
I doubt there's any way of doing so, but the best location (for water protection) would be central, behind the front grill at the top. No splash, no flooding, but engine heat and not enough room.

An S bend with a small drainage hole at the dip?

Some of the aluminium ducting I've on sale have lot of tiny holes. I assume this is to let drain any liquids trapped inside

[Simon]

Problem with other filter mediums is that they don't allow enough free-flow of air through them :( otherwise it would be ideal. Unfortunetely you can't have both free-flowing AND water-stopping capabilities.

I'm opting for a free-flowing system, but this is not to say my way is the right way or the only way. I'm fully aware of the need for water protection so it's up to the individual to decide which route they want to choose. :lol:

[NOCTURNAL]

Ditto.



And by the way, can anybody think of more words in the English dictionary that have two U’s next to each other? So far I got vacuum and continuum.




individuum (http://wordnavigator.com/word/individuum/)
menstruum (http://wordnavigator.com/word/menstruum/)
mutuum (http://wordnavigator.com/word/mutuum/)
paramenstruum (http://wordnavigator.com/word/paramenstruum/)
residuum (http://wordnavigator.com/word/residuum/)
triduum (http://wordnavigator.com/word/triduum/)
ultravacuum (http://wordnavigator.com/word/ultravacuum/)

forgive the OT I'm a bit bored :(

[Simon]

individuum (http://wordnavigator.com/word/individuum/)
menstruum (http://wordnavigator.com/word/menstruum/)
mutuum (http://wordnavigator.com/word/mutuum/)
paramenstruum (http://wordnavigator.com/word/paramenstruum/)
residuum (http://wordnavigator.com/word/residuum/)
triduum (http://wordnavigator.com/word/triduum/)
ultravacuum (http://wordnavigator.com/word/ultravacuum/)

forgive the OT I'm a bit bored :(

Bored?

Hadn't noticed..... ;) :laughing2:

[NOCTURNAL]

chuckle .....

I should have said...not with the topic :P with being stuck in at home with my leg up ;)

Nick

[mantianak]

individuum (http://wordnavigator.com/word/individuum/)
menstruum (http://wordnavigator.com/word/menstruum/)
mutuum (http://wordnavigator.com/word/mutuum/)
paramenstruum (http://wordnavigator.com/word/paramenstruum/)
residuum (http://wordnavigator.com/word/residuum/)
triduum (http://wordnavigator.com/word/triduum/)
ultravacuum (http://wordnavigator.com/word/ultravacuum/)

forgive the OT I'm a bit bored :(

Good idea. I didn't think of using a puzzel solving site. I think I'll be on it for hours now.

What word has the fewest letters and has two U's next to each other?

[Simon]

chuckle .....

I should have said...not with the topic :P with being stuck in at home with my leg up ;)

Nick

Ah yes... Read about your knackered leg. Not so good there. Hope it all gets better soon so you can get back to driving ;) :lol:

[M47Rman]

Back to the water issue.....

The best way to stop water-ingress would be to construct a labrynth or a splash-guard to 'catch' the water and allow it to drain out (any remaining vapour should then be okay for the filter to deal with or not sufficient to cause problems with the engine)

What I'm aiming for here is a comprimise - something which will 'catch' spray and splashes but that will not necesarily prevent large volumes (eg flooded roads) from entering the ducting (this I can prevent by simply not driving through them).

I'm always thinking and trying to evolve my set-up to make it even better so any tips and information are all gratefully recieved.

The two-vent piping I am looking to install with also help prevent water ingress because if one duct becomes submerged or blocked air will simply be drawn from the other duct as it is the route of less resistance.

Also leaving a gap between the duct opening and the bumper will help stop splashes reaching the ducting.

Wahay!
Dual entry intake system - very Wolf! You will be telling me you are waterproofing your electrics in preparation for passing military wading specs next!
All good stuff this, keep us informed.
Incidentaly, the best place for a dry air intake is inside the cabin!
Actually thinking about it, if you put the air intake inside the car, you could regulate the air intake temperature by adjusting the heater output, AND, if you always had the air-con on full blast you could guarantee BELOW ambient air intake temperatures. But then you would have to work out the increase in engine output using cold air intake, versus the drop in engine performance due to driving with the air-con on permanently!:p:
Did someone mention brain ache??:)
Andy

[Simon]

Incidentaly, the best place for a dry air intake is inside the cabin!
Actually thinking about it, if you put the air intake inside the car, you could regulate the air intake temperature by adjusting the heater output, AND, if you always had the air-con on full blast you could guarantee BELOW ambient air intake temperatures. But then you would have to work out the increase in engine output using cold air intake, versus the drop in engine performance due to driving with the air-con on permanently!:p:
Did someone mention brain ache??:)
Andy

Not only would you freeze everywhere you went, but you're passengers may wonder what the big sucking noise was! :rofl:

At this rate I'll start talking about intercoolers :D ;)

[M47Rman]

Not only would you freeze everywhere you went, but you're passengers may wonder what the big sucking noise was! :rofl:

At this rate I'll start talking about intercoolers :D ;)

Well there is room, didn't we fit one to another engine in this car?
Hmmmm???
Now where is that turbo charger............

[Zeb]

Switchable aircon feed direct to airfilter or into car interior......:D

[Simon]

For that matter, you could use the dual-zone ATC. Set the drivers side to something comfortable and then use the feed to the passenger side (set to "Lo") to feed the filter box. Constant 5.5C, dry air. That'd be ace.... :D :D

[M47Rman]

For that matter, you could use the dual-zone ATC. Set the drivers side to something comfortable and then use the feed to the passenger side (set to "Lo") to feed the filter box. Constant 5.5C, dry air. That'd be ace.... :D :D

Can't wait to see the pictures of this one Simon.
You better phone B&Q to make sure they have enough drain pipe in stock!:D
Andy

[Countach]

Hmmm,
remember the cheap schnorkel gear you used to be able to get, with a ball in the pipe to prevent you inhaling water?
Could we adapt/ reverse the principal?
At worst the engine tries to suck a vacuum and stalls (or implodes the intake system!!)

maybe I should goto bed, my brain switched off hours ago...

[M47Rman]

Hmmm,
remember the cheap schnorkel gear you used to be able to get, with a ball in the pipe to prevent you inhaling water?
Could we adapt/ reverse the principal?
At worst the engine tries to suck a vacuum and stalls (or implodes the intake system!!)

maybe I should goto bed, my brain switched off hours ago...

So we have gone from avoiding driving through water, to puddles, to wading, to submarining in this thread!
I seem to remember a white Lotus doing this some years ago, maybe we could 'borrow' his intake system........Simon?????
Andy

[Simon]

Well.. I for one do not intend to go deep-sea diving in my Zed... but anything to stop water-ingress can only be good. Obviously, my aims were for a cold-air feed over water protection and so my designs and thinking are always to maximise airflow with as little restrictions as possible. Of course, I'm happy to help with other peoples ideas and designing a system for complete water-proofness is fine with me and I'll be happy to help. :lol: I just like my Zed to breathe free ;) :D

[mantianak]

On Saturday while driving back from Southampton I experienced some of the worse rain to drive in.
I drove on the M27 at sub 40mph in what felt like a very long shallow pond and very, very poor visibility. Suddenly I thought of this topic and about my degraded duct and became paranoid.

I stopped at the first service station and popped the bonnet. I have a sealed inline filter (heat shielded carbon encased), I’ve still not got around to finishing the ducting system and this gave me the idea.

Before realising my existing duct had degraded, I set up the aluminium duct to slot into the shanon duct. This now seemed to be a good design. While I pulled over to look if water was being sucked in, I pulled out the aluminium duct from the shanon and allowed it to the air within the engine bay. Warm air yes, wet air no.

A bit of a unrefined system but on very bad rainy days popping the bonnet and un-slotting the duct could be a engine saver.

[Simon]

A bit of a unrefined system but on very bad rainy days popping the bonnet and un-slotting the duct could be a engine saver.

We could have a dual-set up in that - as you suggest - allowing the airbox to take air from under the bonnet during winter would be a good preventative measure and then during the summer months allowing a better cold-air feed into the filter box simply by moving some piping around in the engine bay. You could, perhaps, set up a switchable pipe using some sort of valve thingy.

Getting a tad more complicated now but as you say - it can be an engine saver in this bl**dy awful weather of late.

[Countach]

, but you're passengers may wonder what the big sucking noise was! :rofl:

:D ;)
Oh Err missus
Personally I like to hear sucking noises...:drool4:

Ok Mr moderator, I accept that this may not get posted!:getmecoat:

Edit by GG (I take it we are talking about the sharp intake of breath as you are presented with the bill for your super duper induction kit)

[bad-head-day]

Cyclonic Filtration: Part 2.

Is it theoretically possible to filter water from air using a cyclone - Yes.
Can you do it at home - No.

It's just too darned difficult! :confused: :(

Hello mate. The first thing you need to know is the volume flow rate of the air that the engine is sucking in. Go with the minimum & design the cyclone filter from that. A cyclone filter is designed to have enough inlet velocity so that particles in the gas stream have enough momentum to impact against the filter wall & fall to the bottom of the chamber (i.e. the particle leaves the gas stream). The size of the cyclone filter is governed by the mass flow rate, because this is dependent on the gas velocity & inlet area. The biggest headache is how to release any trapped particles & water, plus there's not that much room to play with judging by the photos. Also, if the filter inlet/outlet is a much smaller diameter than the shannon pipe (or hole where it went)(likely) then the engine is going to use power drawing air through the narrow section & the excercise isn't worthwhile.

[Simon]

Hello mate. The first thing you need to know is the volume flow rate of the air that the engine is sucking in. Go with the minimum & design the cyclone filter from that. A cyclone filter is designed to have enough inlet velocity so that particles in the gas stream have enough momentum to impact against the filter wall & fall to the bottom of the chamber (i.e. the particle leaves the gas stream). The size of the cyclone filter is governed by the mass flow rate, because this is dependent on the gas velocity & inlet area. The biggest headache is how to release any trapped particles & water, plus there's not that much room to play with judging by the photos. Also, if the filter inlet/outlet is a much smaller diameter than the shannon pipe (or hole where it went)(likely) then the engine is going to use power drawing air through the narrow section & the excercise isn't worthwhile.

In a word. Yes.
Hence my acknowledgement of it being a bit ambitious to achieve correctly.

Problem #1: I cannot find reference to the minimum air flow rate of the KV6.
Problem #2: How would you engineer a precise conical filter AND container within the confines of the engineering requirements for cyclonic filtration to work?
Problem #3: Would you car look cool with a Dyson under the bonnet?! :rofl:
Problem #4: Cyclonic filtration is, at best, 50% efficient. It probably wont filter out enough particulates like a good foam filter does. Plus you have the problem of removing the particulates/water vapour from the cyclone without comprimising the cyclone.

As you can see. Many problems and not many answers. Which is why I kinda gave up on this one... :pillow:


If you want to have a crack at it, then by all means! I'll be interested in hearing your results. In the meantime, I'm sticking to my ITG filter and looking at increasing the breathing efficiency through a couple of other ideas.... :)

[bad-head-day]

It's totally impractical I know but there are so-called "classical dimensions" for cyclone filters. I thought you modders were after something to remove water from the inlet, not a full replacement :)

You can improve the overall efficiency by connecting more filters in series, then you'd have a bunch of cyclone filters trailing along the floor ;) Get 7 cyclone filters of 50% collection efficiency in a row to achieve +99% total collection efficiency. You could stick them up the A post, you couldn't use the front window but the Mrs. sits there anyway :)

[Simon]

It's totally impractical I know but there are so-called "classical dimensions" for cyclone filters. I thought you modders were after something to remove water from the inlet, not a full replacement :)

You can improve the overall efficiency by connecting more filters in series, then you'd have a bunch of cyclone filters trailing along the floor ;) Get 7 cyclone filters of 50% collection efficiency in a row to achieve +99% total collection efficiency. You could stick them up the A post, you couldn't use the front window but the Mrs. sits there anyway :)

:laughing2: :laughing2:

I think the answer to remove water from the inlet is to stop all this bleeding rain we keep having. :mood:

Currently, I have a short section of shanon tube attached the down-pipe from the filter box. This aims a couple of inches away from the outside edge of the bumper. Combined with the removal of the blanking plate from the lower section of the bumper in my Mk1 Zed, it provides a cold air source yet is protected from the majority of rain/splashes etc. It's not perfect, but it's better than nothing.

I'm currently weighing up the idea of removing the OEM filterbox and fitting an aftermarket filter/cold air feed or going with modding the filterbox by way of attaching a large bore inlet pipe to it to aid breathing. Hmmm... decisions decisions (and cost!)...

[JohnDotCom]

No Good up Here then with all the Flooded Roads, Streams, Fords & even what I can only describe as Weirs over some damaged Roads. I find following the Lorries through closely in their clear wake is best but risky. Its when the depth signs say 3FT or more I start to Panic. The Waters regularily wash away the Railway Track foundations!

[Simon]

No Good up Here then with all the Flooded Roads, Streams, Fords & even what I can only describe as Weirs over some damaged Roads. I find following the Lorries through closely in their clear wake is best but risky. Its when the depth signs say 3FT or more I start to Panic. The Waters regularily wash away the Railway Track foundations!

Blimey! You'll be investing an a boat soon then John! Maybe even the worlds first Aqua-75! :rofl:

[JohnDotCom]

Blimey! You'll be investing an a boat soon then John! Maybe even the worlds first Aqua-75! :rofl:
Not far off there, Don't forget 12 Years ago we (Towyn) was nearly destroyed by the sea coming straight through leaving people living in Tempory Caravans for up to 2 years! Granada TV virtually moved in for their National Coverage over 450 homes mainly bungalows under several feet of sea water and contents of the Sewerage Farm!
We are at Sea Level, Perfectly Flat, but we do now have the Protection of a sea Wall Built. Better late than never.

[baxlin]

We could have a dual-set up in that - as you suggest - allowing the airbox to take air from under the bonnet during winter would be a good preventative measure and then during the summer months allowing a better cold-air feed into the filter box simply by moving some piping around in the engine bay. You could, perhaps, set up a switchable pipe using some sort of valve thingy.



Didn't this used to be normal on a lot of cars (BMC inline A-Series - A35, minor, A40 etc), you just had to turn the air filter "spout" thingy through 90 degs ish so it pointed to the grille in summer, and to the engine in winter?

Malcolm

[MartinW]

Come on, Simon, fit an induction kit! I got the £89 Pipe-X one to fit mine and now I have more problem wetting myself in the car listening to it!

[JohnDotCom]

Didn't this used to be normal on a lot of cars (BMC inline A-Series - A35, minor, A40 etc), you just had to turn the air filter "spout" thingy through 90 degs ish so it pointed to the grille in summer, and to the engine in winter?

Malcolm


Ah! I remember them well on my old A40, well I was told about them...:getmecoat: :)

[HOMER]

Come on, Simon, fit an induction kit! I got the £89 Pipe-X one to fit mine and now I have more problem wetting myself in the car listening to it!

:clap: That did make me chuckle

[Simon]

Come on, Simon, fit an induction kit! I got the £89 Pipe-X one to fit mine and now I have more problem wetting myself in the car listening to it!

It's very tempting yes... :drool4:

I do like the ITG filters though, trouble is the Maxoxygen range is a tad on the expensive side... :eek: I wonder if I could just fit one there filters onto some regular ducting... :unlucky: