Synergy 2 - What is it called for insurance purposes?

[rik007]

Hi, I have a Synergy2 on my Rover 75 CDT tourer. Churchill want £448 this year. But they added over £150 last year when I delared it.

Can anyone tell me what is acutally referred to for the purposes of insurance quotes? There is a list of mods on each insurance website but I'm never quite sure what its really called.

Any reccomends for 'sensible' insurance companies who wont blow their lids at a slightly better peforming diesel? After all my mates Vauxhall 1.9CDTi Estate easily outperforms my lovely smooth Rover, but I know what I'd rather drive.

Cheers,

Rich.

[2Diesels]

Hing urn til next week when mine's is selt:D

[2Diesels]

Digital tuning module by the way:}

[rik007]

Easy one Rich, ditch the Synergy (free listing on ebay this weekend), and I will sort you out with an insurance friendly alternative, for less than the proposed hike in cover costs ;)
Brian :D

Thanks for the offer Brian, I need the Synergy as I pull a 4 berth caravan. The extra power means I can pull it at a sensible speed. So it will have to stay .... unless of course I dtich the caravan, some say that may also be a good idea!

Rich

[rik007]

Digital tuning module by the way:}

Geat thanks :bowdown:

[markvh]

Thanks for the offer Brian, I need the Synergy as I pull a 4 berth caravan. The extra power means I can pull it at a sensible speed. So it will have to stay .... unless of course I dtich the caravan, some say that may also be a good idea!

Rich

I think Brian is offering to look at remapping your car, same or better results than synergy, and invisible.......

[pbry]

If you call Adrain Flux Insurance 0800 369 8590 and mention Dan Clark ( A rover 75 forum member ) you will not only get a club discount but also this company are familiar with all the diesel engine mods on the Rover 75.
I have told them I have the Synergy and EGR bypass and they didn't bat an eyelid and offered me cover with no additional premium cost.
Good Luck.
Paul.

[rik007]

Easy one Rich, ditch the Synergy (free listing on ebay this weekend), and I will sort you out with an insurance friendly alternative, for less than the proposed hike in cover costs ;)
Brian :D

Brian, sorry I got the wrong end of the stick there. So I can remove the synergy and you a better solution to the power issue. How does that work roughly? I'm up in Cumbria now so can it be a solution delivered to the NW Lakes?

Rich

[Roverron]

Easy one Rich, ditch the Synergy (free listing on ebay this weekend), and I will sort you out with an insurance friendly alternative, for less than the proposed hike in cover costs ;)
Brian :D

I beg to differ..

If you don't mind, stop your 'ditch the Synergy' advice - I don 't slag your products off....

Ron

[Jakg]

I beg to differ..

If you don't mind, stop your 'ditch the Synergy' advice - I don 't slag your products off....

Ron

I'm sorry Ron, but for once a competing product has proof to back up it's claims - yours has advantages (removable, resale-able, can use PB MAF's etc), but in headline power figures the 160 map delivers more.

[Roverron]

I'm sorry Ron, but for once a competing product has proof to back up it's claims - yours has advantages (removable, resale-able, can use PB MAF's etc), but in headline power figures the 160 map delivers more.

I'm not arguing about power figures - I never have.

But it is not acceptable for one trader to denigrate another's product by using phrases such as "ditch.." It smacks of desperation to get a sale.

By all means use words to the effect "if you want 160bhp" then I can remap it".

However, in reality only a small percentage of owners want to max out their engine..

Finally, the OP was asking about describing the Synergy, so Marinabrian had no right to jump in touting for business.

I'm sure he'd not appreciate me monitoring all his replies and trying to put owners off his remaps. Infact I do now offer either a Synergy 2a or a remap for the same price (£189.95) though not a 160bhp one - around 145 in fact.

So let's have a bit of respect please.

Ron

[pete75]

I've had first class service from Ron. His Synergy for our cars is a wonderful bit of kit. :bowdown:
Pete

[Roverron]

Whilst I'm on my high horse!

Anyone trying to tell you that a remap is undetectable is not being honest.

Insurance companies assessors are not stupid and if they can see the vehicle is non standard (eg has an egr bypass and / or other mods - non standard wheels and tryes etc ) they are quite likely to have the ecu firmware checked.

Its hardly rocket science comparing a factory ecu file with the one in your ecu and any experienced remapping company will be able to confirm to them that the file in the ecu has been modified.

Fortunately, insurers do not usually go to these lengths unless trying to reduce the size of a large claim. I certainly know of two cases where they did - one a Ferrari or similar and one an Audi that made the TV news last year.

So if you are responsible for a collision involving several vehicles, especially some expensive ones, watch out. At least with a Synergy fitted, you can remove it if you forgot to notify them about it.

Just to be totally up front, any tuning box even after removal is also detectable by viewing the ecu fuel pressure regulator duty cycle log.
Proving that the non standard data was due to the use of a tuning box however, is more difficult and of interest mainly to vehicle manufacturers investigating warranty claims.

Ron
Ron

[pbry]

I've had first class service from Ron. His Synergy for our cars is a wonderful bit of kit. :bowdown:
Pete

I will second that emotion, the Synergy is a great bit of kit and easy for the do it yourself-er to fit with the added benefit of being able to use the Pierburg Maf
replacement. I have the Synergy fitted to my cdt (116 hp) and the difference is amazingly good, like driving a different car.

Thanks,

Paul.

[rik007]

Interesting conversation here ...

Sure I'd say I support Roverron, the Synergy2 does indeed work well for me. Especially so as my wife drives the car to work every day but doesn’t need the car in a high performance mode. We just leave it on the lower setting most of the time. Then flick the switch if were pulling the caravan
or need extra zip on a long drive south.

However, the education about a remap is interesting to hear about. So I've actually learnt a little as well.

Whether the post could have been worded more commercially aware is certainly a fair point.

As I have the Synergy even if I did move to a remap I'd have spent my money at both ports of call so both would have been treated fairly I guess. But only from where I stand!

I'll be keeping the synergy I think. It does do all we need it to do and there is sufficient power for what we need.

Thanks everyone, I did get the help I needed re insurance quotes so will pursue that with the info provided.

Cheers everyone,

Rich

[chrislloydie]

Yep, synergy 2 fan here too. Always had great service and advice from Ron. And now im selling my zt, Ive been able to remove the synergy 2 and sell it on to another member. Was always very happy with the synergy units on our zt and 75 tourer.

I also think its a bit wrong for someone to suggest you having the remap done so you dont have to declare it to your insurance companies. :shrug:

[grivas]

If you call Adrain Flux Insurance 0800 369 8590 and mention Dan Clark ( A rover 75 forum member ) you will not only get a club discount but also this company are familiar with all the diesel engine mods on the Rover 75.
I have told them I have the Synergy and EGR bypass and they didn't bat an eyelid and offered me cover with no additional premium cost.
Good Luck.
Paul.

I phone these lot a few years ago, and they were not at all interested.!!

[Roverron]

I phone these lot a few years ago, and they were not at all interested.!!

I have used Adrian Flux but I've always found it pays to shop around after a year or two.

These companies cover power upgrades although some may charge a mid-term admin fee.

NB the % is the power increase not the cost increase!

SHIELA’S WHEELS 30% max

DIRECT LINE 20% max

ELEPHANT/ADMIRAL 5-10% & 10-25%

ADRIAN FLUX haggle

SAGA - ask as the cost varies.

TESCO - same as Elephant

NU/Aviva usually will, often at no extra cost apart from mid term admin fee.

There are probably others that will offer cover due to the intense competition.
ron

[Reebs]

Gents if I may, I think that both points of view have been expressed quite openly, and perhaps it's all food for thought moving forward.

There is room, and a demand for both types of upgrade, so no reason why the two approaches, and indeed the providers of said should not work together in 'Synergy' if I can use the vernacular :o for the good of us all, with respect and mutual understanding.

It would be good if you could both shake hands metaphorically and buy each other a virtual pint as it were :beer2: :grouphug:

[Roverron]

Well well, I seem to have touched a raw nerve here.
The OP was annoyed at having to pay an extra £150 to a blood sucking insurer for the privilege of having a Synergy Tuning box fitted.
I was merely pointing out that there is an alternative to a box which is visible to the naked eye the moment the bonnet is opened :getmecoat:
Tell me how following the aftermath of an accident, in which you quite possibly have sustained serious injury, and your car is recovered to a secure location, you have the time to remove the quite obvious "undeclared" tuning box :shrug:
And as far a desperation to gain a sale, you don't know me from Adam and if you did, you'd realise quite quickly that money is not the motivation for me ;)

Ron if you were offended, or wished me to amend the wording of my original post, you only need have sent me a P.M. and I would have been happy to oblige.
As it is, you have made all manner of incorrect assumptions, both technically and personally so we'll leave it at that shall we.
Brian :D

Owners have been known to take off their tuning box after an accident - I recabled one just last week where the owner had cut if off.

Its up to the individual whether whether they tell their insurers about any mods, but the implication that remaps are not detectable so need not be declared is one widely put about by remappers as a selling point over a tuning box. THIS WAS THE REASON FOR YOUR POST IF NOT FOR PROFIT.

I don't have a problem with any other traders suggesting a remap instead of a box, but your snide suggestion to: "ditch the Synergy,.. its free listing on Ebay" etc is disrepectful to a fellow trader. Made all the worse by suggesting that the OP then have one of your remaps and not bother to tell his insurers.

What would you do if the OP had taken up your offer, had an accident, the insurance company took the ecu away for examination, found it had been remapped and then refused to pay out?

When you remappers stop trying to fool customers into thinking a remap is undetectable, there won't be any reason for me to be offended because your main selling point will cease to exist.

Ron

[Roverron]

Gents if I may, I think that both points of view have been expressed quite openly, and perhaps it's all food for thought moving forward.

There is room, and a demand for both types of upgrade, so no reason why the two approaches, and indeed the providers of said should not work together in 'Synergy' if I can use the vernacular :o for the good of us all, with respect and mutual understanding.

It would be good if you could both shake hands metaphorically and buy each other a virtual pint as it were :beer2: :grouphug:

With respect, you've missed the point. As I said in an earlier post, I agree that its up to the individual what type of upgrade they op for - this is not about competitors treading on my toes. The OP already has a Synergy, he wasn't asking which to have. Its disingenuous to imply that a remap is undetectable so should replace the Synergy to avoid the insurance increase.

Ron

[Reebs]

Fair comment Ron, I will but out :getmecoat:

[Roverron]

Fair comment Ron, I will but out :getmecoat:

No worries.

On a general note, there are a lot of amateurs springing up with cheap programmers off ebay. No insurance, no premises, not vat registered, cheap remap promoted with phrases like 'undetectable or insurance friendly' but then can't be contacted when something goes wrong. My colleague at Energy Tuning often ends up undoing the mess left by them.
Vehicle manufacturers are getting the upper hand (I'm surprised its taken this long) and successfully preventing tuning and the insurance industry woke up to tuning a few years ago, witness the number who do now cover mods. This means, now, more than ever, its best to inform them of any tuning mods.

Ron

[Roverron]

What, you fail to say here is unlike your glorified "resistor in a box", I will create an invisible to the naked eye job, which need not be removed where circumstances, would dictate removal of any tuning box impossible.
I've never pointed out that the only thing the tuning aspect of synergy does is to crudely "fool" the DDE4 ECM into thinking that the high pressure rail pressure is lower than it actually is, thus artificially injecting more fuel.
As to HP duty solenoid logs, no such thing exists on the three variants of DDE4 as fitted to R40.
For those who are interested, here is an enlightening read for you.
LINK (http://forums.mg-rover.org/showthread.php?t=497359&highlight=big+russ)
You can draw your own conclusions after reading ;)
Brian :D

You said 'insurance friendly' invisible to the naked eye is not necessarily invisible to a suspicious insurance assessor.....

The Synergy is once again being denigrated whilst all I have done is point out one simple fact - no remap is undetectable.

I think this post sums up your unprofessionalism quite nicely thank you.

Ron
PS I wasn't referring to the 75/ZT when I mentioned solenoid logs, I was trying to be fair by saying that tuning boxes are no longer invisible either.

[BigRuss]

On a general note, there are a lot of amateurs springing up with cheap programmers off ebay. No insurance, no premises, not vat registered, cheap remap promoted with phrases like 'undetectable or insurance friendly' but then can't be contacted when something goes wrong. My colleague at Energy Tuning often ends up undoing the mess left by them.

Ron

I hope you are not referring to the traders on here who are offering remaps.

I like Brian use a bespoke programmer designed for use with the DDE 4.0, have insurance and more than enough ability to sort out any problem that could possibly arise.

With many tens of thousands of miles that have been done by the cars that have been remapped there hasn't been any reported problem as yet that have been attributed to the remaps we offer.

I agree that people with little knowledge or ability should not attempt to offer remapping services there are plenty of cowboys and snake oil sellers out there.

As for informing the insurance company, customers are made aware that they should, but that of course is up to them.

Russ

[guru]

Trying to bring this thread back on topic, do bear in mind that in the event of an accident the insurance company would have to prove that the modification was a contributory factor and even then they would most likely only deduct a portion of the payout not void the claim. Also bear in mind that even if they refused to pay for your car they have no choice but to pay for the other party's damage if the accident was your fault. Of course any mod should ALWAYS be declared but it's not quite the black and white situation that some posters on here seem to be making out.

With the above in mind remember that if you hit a Ferrari the insurers can't get out of their liability to the third party so the only thing they can get out of is paying for the damage to your car, now given the age and value of our cars I cannot see that any insurance company would spend very much time at all trying to analyse the car to ECU programming level to try to get out of it, much easier and cheaper just to pay a couple of grand, write the car off and move on. Also bear in mind that with the tuning box they would have to argue that the difference between 115bhp and 160bhp caused the accident, again not worth the time and effort at our level.

Of course if you owned the Ferrari and your insurance company was trying to get out of a £150k claim it would be a very different story, they would tear what remained of the car apart to try to invalidate the claim but for a £2k 75 or ZT the numbers just don't add up.

[crofts]

What brasses me off is that insurance companies seem to assume you have a tune-up box, or a remap, purely to 'rip it up' with acceleration and speed.
If funds permitted I would love to have the re-map by Brian but purely to make change up's more effortlessly and, hopefully, improve MPG
I'm probably a 74 yr old Pipe & Slippers type, not a boy racer. Having said that I don't dawdle either on the motorway and sit at a true 70 mph, in cruise, whenever I can. But around town I have disciplined myself to drive with a very light foot with possible economy in mind..........and avoid speeding tickets.
Following on from the above I'm waiting for Brian & our other Gurus to come up with a remap, or whatever, to enable the auto box to change up at 30-32mph
Well you can dream.....can't you ? ? :shrug: :bowdown:

[Mike Noc]

With the above in mind remember that if you hit a Ferrari the insurers can't get out of their liability to the third party so the only thing they can get out of is paying for the damage to your car.

Are you sure? Thought I once read in the insurance small print that although they would pay out for the other vehicles involved in an accident, they had the right to claim those costs back from the insured driver in the event of finding things like failure to disclose all facts? :shrug:

Mike

[guru]

Are you sure? Thought I once read in the insurance small print that although they would pay out for the other vehicles involved in an accident, they had the right to claim those costs back from the insured driver in the event of finding things like failure to disclose all facts? :shrug:

Mike

That is true however they would have to be able to prove in court that the undeclared mods caused or were a contributing factor in the accident. Even if you hit a Ferrari the costs of putting the case together and ensuing legal costs would probably put them off. If you were driving around drunk with 4 bald tyres and the petrol tank on fire then they might go for it however trying to argue that you should pay them back for the claim because your car had a few more gee gee's then it should have would be very tough for them to prove.
Also remember in court they can only win what you have, so even if they spent £75k putting together a watertight case if you only have £50k in assets they'll still be out of pocket. Insurance companies don't do things to prove points, they just look at the figures at the end of the day.

[guru]

I will add though that I still recommend disclosing everything to your insurance company....takes away any worry!

[rik007]

So... end of my story was, £230 from Admiral with tuning box declared. Down down from £450, which is nice!

Rich.


EDIT: Thread now closed at the request of the club director.