Fan

[xant14]

Sorry, I know you heard it before, but I have searched for 3 nights until my eyes have gotten heavy.
My fan doesnt seem to work. Car is a 54 plate diesel contemporary saloon.
The fan I assume is a two speed. It had a silver resistor, I have changed this to a gold one, twice to hopefully rule out that side.
I have stuck a paper clip in the trinary swittch, nothing!
I have checked a 10A fuse in the engine bay, changed the relay with a fan pic on.
What next?

I had the aircon re-gassed, and it works, but cuts out when standing still. Works fantastic when driving a decent speed.
The car has never overheated, I am yet to try out the diagnostics ipk or wip thing t-cut posted.

Again sorry if this has been posted numerous times.

Rob

[NigelOBB]

Possible the relay has stuck

[stocktake]

If it were the slow speed relay that had stuck/failed then the high speed should pulse on and off at around 20 sec intervals. This is not happening. Assuming you have proved the fan motor?? then the next step would be the pcb in the relay box ( Replacements available from Jules ( member) if that fails to solve the problem you are looking at checking the signal from the ECU.

[xant14]

Thanks for the replies Nigel and Dave.
I have not proved the fan motor yet, I will take off my front tomorrow depending on weather. So just stick 12V on it to see if it runs?
Nigel, as I say I have tried the relays, first I changed the heated rear window relay (I assume) with the Fan (I assume) in the engine bay. Then I bought another from the scrapyard.

[stocktake]

The relays in question are in the relay box next to the fan itself in the fan shroud.

With the back off the relay box you will see the relays. Ign on ( no need for engine running) bridge across the heavy duty connections of the relays. one should provide high speed, the other low speed, keep you fingers away from the fan and make sure you have your foot or something on the fan shroud to stop it from going walkabout :) :o

[xant14]

The relays in question are in the relay box next to the fan itself in the fan shroud.

With the back off the relay box you will see the relays. Ign on ( no need for engine running) bridge across the heavy duty connections of the relays. one should provide high speed, the other low speed, keep you fingers away from the fan and make sure you have your foot or something on the fan shroud to stop it from going walkabout :) :o

Ahh, nice one. I was looking at the wrong relays. I will try that tomorrow. Thanks again.
Carboot time... see if there are any Rover parts..

[xant14]

stripped down a bit. still cant see the relay or shrouds.
I can hear a click when I put a wire between the trinary switch, but no fan movement.
I need to remove other bits now to access the relays...

[lovema75]

stripped down a bit. still cant see the relay or shrouds.
I can hear a click when I put a wire between the trinary switch, but no fan movement.
I need to remove other bits now to access the relays...

You will need to remove the front bumper to access the fan.
http://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s485/lovema75/carfront004.jpg

Once you have done this the fan shroud in in view, and has to be removed to get acess to the fan and relay block which is built into the shroud. It will look something like this inside...
http://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s485/lovema75/controlbox002.jpg

To remove the shroud you will need to cut around the aircon pipes,using something like this...
http://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s485/lovema75/inletmanifold072.jpg

The job is not really difficult,and while the front bumper is off,you can use the opportunity to do other jobs, such as replacing the shannon tube!:)

[xant14]

Hi Lovema75
I have the bumper off,also the aluminium crash bar thing. Never heard of a shannon tube until now. After a google look, will check that myself. Do I need to remove the slam panel?
I have removed the bolts on top, but realise it is connected to other things, bonnet release, and a 'U' pipe at the bottom for instance.
At the moment all I see is the fan. Not sure where to cut yet, I have a dremmelly thing so should be no problem.

[alan richard]

Hi Rob.

This may give some clues

http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=21388

It's for repositioning the fan relay box which you may not want - but there are links there for getting the fan off etc.

Shannon tube is only for petrol or V6's AFAIK

-a

[Trophy Blue Tourer]

Also the inside of the relay box WON'T look like the pic posted!! That's for a petrol engine!! -And you don't have a shannon tube!! - again petrol only!!

The Diesel models have a totally different control system from the petrol models which includes a pcb board and relays - still in the control box though!!

Best advice have a word with Artic who has done a fair bit of sorting on the fan systems on these cars or even quicker a short chat with Jules (a member on here) to get some advice and who will be able to supply any parts you need!! - he's very helpful our Jules but can be a busy man!!

Be aware that the fans are always live and are controlled by switching the EARTH !!! - IIRC!!;)

HTH?

Andy

P.S Jules shop page I believe has a list of the other DIESEL jobs to do while the front is off!!

[xant14]

Thanks for the replies.. what a mess. Wish I had given Jules a bag of money and let him do his thing.. horses for courses n all that.
Anyway, thanks for getting me to this stage, cowling cut, fan off.
With demist on I am getting 12V to the smaller terminals on the relay (pictured). Both of them. But there is no power on the heavier wires. So is the relay duff?

[xant14]

Think I have narrowed down the fault!!!
These are the wires to the fan.
Wondering why this has happened? A bad solder? it is between the brown and red connection.
My next job is connecting the wires. Any reasons I should be doubtful of doing this?

[SD1too]

With demist on I am getting 12V to the smaller terminals on the relay (pictured). Both of them. But there is no power on the heavier wires. So is the relay duff?
Rob,

You're looking at the wrong relay. Place your voltmeter across the PCB terminals of the smaller relay (low speed) instead, with 'demist' selected and ignition on. Do you see 12v?

Simon

[FrenchMike]

One of the smaller terminal is effectively 12 v ;
and the other is returned to earth via the ECU when action is demanded...:}

[SD1too]

Wondering why this has happened? A bad solder? it is between the brown and red connection.
The brown wire is the main 12v supply to the motor so, yes, remove the length of discoloured conductor and reconnect. Disconnect the car's negative battery terminal before you start work (but not before the sat. nav. disc drive has shut down).

Simon

[Arctic]

Think I have narrowed down the fault!!!
These are the wires to the fan.
Wondering why this has happened? A bad solder? it is between the brown and red connection.
My next job is connecting the wires. Any reasons I should be doubtful of doing this?

Hi Rob
You have found the reason why the fan is not working cut back the wires crimp or solder the back together but remember to use shrink wrap also to stop this happening again water as got at it and corroed the joints, found this on another members fan early in the year after he bouight a new fan and came to mine so i could look at it, i asked him before he bought a new one to check all the wires even those behind the fan shroud where you ahve found your fault.

Also check the this wires nesxto the plug in the last pics belwo they can chaff there too Arctic.

[Arctic]

The brown wire is the main 12v supply to the motor so, yes, remove the length of discoloured conductor and reconnect. Disconnect the car's negative battery terminal before you start work (but not before the sat. nav. disc drive has shut down).

Simon

AS Simons says above or just unplug the fan from the main loom then you do not have to disconnect the battery

[xant14]

Again, thanks to all. Sadly I still have no fan. I soldered a piece of wire in place. I am getting 12V across both relays, but not across the PCB contacts.
Fan burnt out? wish I had tested it when I had bared the wires now.

[lovema75]

Sorry for misleading anyone, my pictures were meant in a general sense only, didnt mean to muddy the waters.:getmecoat::getmecoat:

[xant14]

Rob,

You're looking at the wrong relay. Place your voltmeter across the PCB terminals of the smaller relay (low speed) instead, with 'demist' selected and ignition on. Do you see 12v?

Simon

Sorry... Again measuring the wrong place.
I am NOT getting 12V on the PCB terminals.. either of them.. with demist on..

[Arctic]

Sorry... Again measuring the wrong place.
I am NOT getting 12V on the PCB terminals.. either of them.. with demist on..

Rob PM sent Arctic

[SD1too]

Sadly I still have no fan. I soldered a piece of wire in place. I am getting 12V across both relays, but not across the PCB contacts.

If the PCB isn't triggering the relays then a working motor will not run!

Do you have 12v between the thin yellow wire and the thin black wire connected to the PCB terminals?

Simon

[xant14]

Rob PM sent Arctic

Replied Arctic... Thanks

[xant14]

If the PCB isn't triggering the relays then a working motor will not run!

Do you have 12v between the thin yellow wire and the thin black wire connected to the PCB terminals?

Simon

Yes, I have 12v between those two.. thin yellow to thin black
Oh, the fan runs if I short the heavy wires out.

[SD1too]

So the PCB is getting +12v (yellow wire) and an earth connection (thin black).
When you by-pass the relay contacts (thick wires) the motor runs.
If you remove the relays, identify the PCB contacts, and place a 12v battery across them, do the relays operate? If they do, it's looking like a PCB electronics fault. It's happened before with the diesel.

Simon

[xant14]

Righto.. scrap yard then? or is there anywhere else?

[xant14]

I have extended my fan wires so that I can put the car back together, yet still be able to work on the relays and PCB. I know Jules extended some and mounted it in the engine bay, but where did he mount the relay box?

[alan richard]

I think he put 'em -

. . . Block off the gap where box used to be (I used an old relay case)
6. Position the control box next to the fuse box
(there is a threaded stud below the fuse box that the control box clip fits straight on to) . . .


-a

[SD1too]

Righto.. scrap yard then? or is there anywhere else?
Contact Arctic and/or Jules.

Simon

[xant14]

I think he put 'em -

. . . Block off the gap where box used to be (I used an old relay case)
6. Position the control box next to the fuse box
(there is a threaded stud below the fuse box that the control box clip fits straight on to) . . .


-a

Cheers Al, probably need to drill my box or something, theres no way for it fit straight to. tie wraps and black sticky tape, the bodge it way.

[Arctic]

I have extended my fan wires so that I can put the car back together, yet still be able to work on the relays and PCB. I know Jules extended some and mounted it in the engine bay, but where did he mount the relay box?

I mounted mine here as below ;) and Jules is your man for a new PCB board

[xant14]

I mounted mine here as below ;) and Jules is your man for a new PCB board

Nice one Arctic.
Thats where mine will go too.
Thanks for all the help from the forum. Will pm Jules hoping he has a board.

[xant14]

Well I finally fitted the PCB that Jules supplied, Thanks :bowdown: (arrived the day after left for work) so was almost two weeks before fitting.
Tried the demist function... wheyy heyyy!!! it works!
Thank you all for the input, and thanks Jules for the PCB.

[Arctic]

Well I finally fitted the PCB that Jules supplied, Thanks :bowdown: (arrived the day after left for work) so was almost two weeks before fitting.
Tried the demist function... wheyy heyyy!!! it works!
Thank you all for the input, and thanks Jules for the PCB.

HI Rob.
Glad to hear you got it sorted in the end, did you manage to move the control box into the engine bay for future relay or PCB problems hoping that you do not get none of cause cheers Arctic ;)

[SD1too]

Well I finally fitted the PCB ...
Tried the demist function... wheyy heyyy!!! it works!
Rob,

Thanks for taking the trouble to report the successful outcome. It's very helpful to us all.

Simon

[xant14]

HI Rob.
Glad to hear you got it sorted in the end, did you manage to move the control box into the engine bay for future relay or PCB problems hoping that you do not get none of cause cheers Arctic ;)

Hi Arctic, yes I moved it to the location you suggested. Certainly made life easier for changing the PCB. Hopefully I don't need to touch it now it is easily accessible;

Rob,

Thanks for taking the trouble to report the successful outcome. It's very helpful to us all.

Simon

It is the least I can do after receiving quality information from knowledgeable members on here. Yourself VERY much included in that statement.