What regulator is this?

[horsemanuk]

mrufff has VERY kindly offered to help me sort out my alternator today and he's on his way to scrap yard before heading to me to fit new brushes on the alternator.

However, I've just pulled the regulator off the car and there's two things I've noticed.

1) The brushes look fine??
2) The regulator I have doesn't look like the one in the 'how to' here. (http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=162641)

I doubt that putting new brushes on will help because these look fine? Also, it means that I don't know what's causing the lack of charging. It also means that mrufff might have a wasted journey. :(

http://flyingbuck.co.uk//20140202_110631.jpg
http://flyingbuck.co.uk//20140202_111032.jpg

[HarryM1BYT]

That (or rather the alternator) looks as if it has been damaged by a severe dunking in oil. Usually caused by mechanics not appreciating that the alternator needs to be covered when removing the oil filter on a CDT.

[horsemanuk]

I just went and checked. The alternator itself is dry. There isn't much (any?) oily residue on the outside.

[okenora]

:wot:

Check continuity of the coils across the slip rings and also the slip ring condition. wear is acceptable but dirt/pitting etc. is not so clean with very fine wet/dry paper. Clean up regulator and re-fit or fit new one and pray....

If no continuity across the slip rings then a replacement alternator is the quickest fix. Your regulator looks a bit different but I think it is the same or a very close fitting to the one in the other thread

[HarryM1BYT]

I just went and checked. The alternator itself is dry. There isn't much (any?) oily residue on the outside.

Well the regulator looks to be blathered in it.

There should be no oil at all round that area, just a bit of dry dust from the brushes.

[horsemanuk]

Firstly, a HUGE thank you to mrufff for coming to help me out today. He spent the best part of four hours or so with me and my car. :bowdown:

Having taken off the regulator we couldn't see anything wrong with it. The brushes were about half the length they should be, although plenty left to get a good contact. Still, we took the brushes out and filed them down so they were flat as well as lengthen the cable on them.

Peter suggested that we try his regulator on my car to see if that made a difference. Unfortunately, his regulator is different to mine. His are the 'standard' ones whereas mine are the ones above, so we couldn't try that.

We put the freshly tinkered with regulator back on the car and tried it. The voltage still wasn't right - hovering at about 11.9v - but the battery light wasn't coming on any more. It seemed like a partial success which would keep me mobile until I got a new regulator. However, when we notice smoke starting to come out of the alternator we turned the car off. The alternator was very hot to the touch and this was within a few minutes of starting the car.

Nothing we'd done would have caused that so we made one last ditch attempt and swapped the batteries over just in case my battery was somehow causing issues. Alas, it made no difference.

Therefore, despite our valiant efforts today it looks like a new alternator is the only way to fix the problem.

Still, I can't thank Peter enough for spending his Sunday with me looking at my car. :)

[HarryM1BYT]

However, when we notice smoke starting to come out of the alternator we turned the car off. The alternator was very hot to the touch and this was within a few minutes of starting the car.

Nothing we'd done would have caused that so we made one last ditch attempt and swapped the batteries over just in case my battery was somehow causing issues. Alas, it made no difference.

That is all due to oil damage. Dust will soak up the oil on the outside case, but once in the alternator - bye, bye alternator.

When changing the oil, or rather the filter, you must put a cloth over the alternator to protect it from oil spillage. Many mechanics don't know or just don't care.

[macafee2]

Harry, how much oil could spill? I want to change my oil and I would have made this mistake.

macafee2

[okenora]

depends how steady your hand is but worst case scenario is complete contents of the oil filter, up to half a cup full is not uncommon though. The problem is not so much the quantity but due to the placement of the oil filter, any escaping oil ends up exactly where it will do most damage to the alternator.

Damage will not be immediate but will show it's head with premature alternator failure at some stage.

[WillyHeckaslike]

Looks like a fried diode in the first pic. When ok they should physically look like the one in this link. Click (http://static.bootic.com/_pictures/41685/bmw-x5-z3-m3-2-5l-3-0l-3-2l-voltage-regulator-valeo-oem.jpg)

[okenora]

hard to tell with all the oily gunk....2 secs with a multimeter would tell you though.

[horsemanuk]

The local garage replaced my alternator for a rather reasonable £180 all in. I checked the OBD output and rather than a paltry 11.4v I'm now getting the correct 14.4v. :)

[DMGRS]

You can now replace just the regulator pack (if that's at fault) or even just the brushes or diode. Much less than the cost of new, with the benefit of it being quite a simply DIY job.

[horsemanuk]

Yeah, mrufff very kindly came to help me on Sunday. I already had the regulator off when he got here and we quickly realised that the brushes weren't at fault. They had plenty of life left in them. We had a tinker with them (filed them flat and swapped the brushes round as they were different lengths) to see if it made a difference. When we put the regulator back on and turned the car over the alternator was burning hot within about three minutes and smoking. We guessed it was unlikely this was due to the regulator and a whole new unit was needed.

[HarryM1BYT]

Harry, how much oil could spill? I want to change my oil and I would have made this mistake.

macafee2

Any oil spilled into the alternator will wreck it. It will take a few miles, but the outcome is inevitable. Always cover the alternator with some rag, before touching the filter on a CDT. I would suggest the slip rings are the most destructive place for it to end up, which was why I mentioned it earlier when I saw the photos of the regulator.

[horsemanuk]

I'm assuming that this is because the oil wrecks the contacts and therefore no more electrical generation?

[HarryM1BYT]

I'm assuming that this is because the oil wrecks the contacts and therefore no more electrical generation?

Never having examined an oil or diesel damaged alternator, I am guessing the failure mode....

I suspect what happens is that the oil is burnt onto the slip rings, causing a high resistance point of contact between slip rings and brushes. Over time, that will get worse to the point of complete failure.

I also suspect it could easily be cleaned of the slip ring in a lathe, fit new brushes and it would be as good as new.

In my opinion this is what has happened to the OP's alternator.

I had a Transit's alternator fail at Dover ferry port. The diesel pump was combined with the alternator, the pump seals disintegrated and spewed oil into the alternator. The voltage started to fall on the last bit of dual down to the port and it was dead by the time I arrived in the port.

[mrufff]

I'm glad that you're back on the road Richard

[horsemanuk]

Thanks, Peter. :)

[mrufff]

looks familiar

http://www.vehicleelectricsshop.co.uk/products/Alternators_and_Components/Alternator_Regulators_/Valeo_Type_Voltage_Regulators/VERG1050_VALEO_TYPE_12_VOLT_ALTERNATOR_VOLTAGE_REG ULATOR_FOR_RENAULT_VAUXHALL_OPEL_NISSAN.html

[horsemanuk]

It's got the right mountings but the connector is wrong. My connect has three pins, even though the old alternator had two - it had one 'missing'.

This is the only direct replacement I can find anywhere on the internet: here (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ALTERNATOR-REGULATOR-FOR-VALEO-ALTS-TO-FIT-LAND-ROVER-MG-AND-ROVER-/161007625866?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item257ccd668a)

Not that it matters now, of course. I have presumably got a 'normal' alternator now. :)