Auto Gearbox Fail - Advice Sought

[TimLawman]

Auto Gearbox Fail - Advice Sought

Hi To All.

I have just bought a Y reg Auto Diesel Rover 75 (3rd one but my first auto) with 58,000 miles on the clock (seems genuine as I have the old mot's)

After 11 miles the gearbox started to play up, it seemed that 4th and 5th gear was slipping (as a manual box would) letting it over rev but without any pulling power, but the gear changes were not jerky.

Going up a small hill it lost power and eventually stopped pulling at all. After turning off and restarting the car the box started to work again.

I nursed the car home very slowly and on the final 500 yards (3.5 miles), the gearbox total stopped working.

I can put the stick into all diffrent postions with nothing happens to the car at all.

So it got towed home in neutral.

I have looked for an answer here in the forums but I can not find one for unresponsive box.

I wonder if there is anyone out there in Rover land that may have come accross / had this problem?

If so I would greatly appreciate any help, no matter how small it may be. :}

Regards,

Tim

[TimLawman]

Thanks for the help.

Tim

[Ennine]

Have you checked for fluid loss?

N

[mh007]

First thing that needs to be checked is fluid level (specific procedure, info available on this forum)
If top-up required, the correct fluid only must be used.
To be honest, loss of drive is usually down to a fractured reverse piston.
A faulty reverse piston will affect all gears with eventual complete loss of drive.

[TimLawman]

Hi,

Thanks a lot for the advice, I have been trying to piece together some information on the subject from this forum (which is very good) and I had started to look at the reverse piston subject.

Now I have a hard piece of advice such as yours I will research the replacement of it.

Thanks Tim

GOOD GOD ! Looking at the excellent and clear instructions posted in the how to section, I think this is a little out of my league !!!

I wonder what I would be looking at if I asked a garage to do this for me? any ideas on possible cost / quotes so when I ring around I will know who is being fair.

[crofts]

I would agree with this original diagnosis.
Nearly every auto box fault has been down to cracked reverse piston or solenoids.
The cracked piston was fairly common on cars pre mid 2003.
One big advantage is that both above problems can be fixed without removal of the box though many auto specialists will not tell you this OR are not capable of doing it. You could ask on here if any member can assist, for payment.
If not, and you wish to repair, suggest you ask some pointed questions before deciding on a repairer
Parts and labour for the piston should not exceed about £300 (if no other damage has occured) less than the common problem of clutches on manual cars which requires removal of the box.
Solenoids can be tested with a meter (I think 8) and are not hugely expensive and rarely if ever need more than 1 or 2.
Just make absolutely sure the correct fluid is used in the box. Do not accept anyone telling you Dextron is O.K.

[beinet1]

AS mentioned, you first synptoms points in the direction of a cracked reverse piston. I guess the complete loss of drive is the result when the system sets the autobox in "emergnecy mode" to prevent further damage due to the reverse psiton fault.

There is a lot of information found here if you bother reading:

http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=122171

[TimLawman]

AS mentioned, you first synptoms points in the direction of a cracked reverse piston. I guess the complete loss of drive is the result when the system sets the autobox in "emergnecy mode" to prevent further damage due to the reverse psiton fault.

There is a lot of information found here if you bother reading:

http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=122171

Hi thanks for that.

I did get the EP when it first cut out, but after turning the car off and on, it "disappeared" and has not / is not on now

[SD1too]

Tim,

I think we should clear up a few basic points before you go any further with this.

I have just bought a Y reg Auto Diesel Rover 75 ...
Did you buy it from a dealer? If so, it is legally responsible for this fault.
... with 58,000 miles on the clock (seems genuine as I have the old mot's)
I wonder if the car has been standing for long periods without use? Do you have any garage receipts for service? Did you test drive the car before purchase?
After 11 miles the gearbox started to play up
Hmmmm. I'd be tempted to check the transmission fluid level. A previous owner may have been meddling. To give you an idea of how straightforward this is, add a litre via the filler plug on top of the casing, run the engine at idle whilst moving the gear selector through all positions, then remove the level plug on the base of the gearbox. If no fluid drains out then your gearbox is underfilled. If the fluid is black it needs changing. This is only a rough guide. If you choose to do this Tim I can give you the detailed MG Rover procedure. Only ATF to specification "N402" should be used. For checking, you'll be able to get a litre bottle from any Land Rover dealer.

If this doesn't reveal any problems then it will reinforce the reverse piston diagnosis already expressed.

Simon

[TimLawman]

Hi Simon,

I bought the privately and of course of had total denials so I think that's the end of that one.

It would make total sense to do what you are suggesting.

If you have any information, or help on the subject i would welcome it gratefully !

Regards, Tim

[SD1too]

O.K. Tim, first of all are you going to check the ATF yourself? Have you got the necessary tools (jack, axle stands, 14mm & 24mm sockets, oil tray)?

Simon

[TimLawman]

Hi Simon,

I will have a good go at checking it myself. My skill base as far as mechanics go, go up to changing discs, pads, alternator, starter motor servicing excetra.

So i have a half reasonable toolbox, axle stands, jacks, spanners, socket set excetra.

[beinet1]

Hi Simon,

I will have a good go at checking it myself. My skill base as far as mechanics go, go up to changing discs, pads, alternator, starter motor servicing excetra.

So i have a half reasonable toolbox, axle stands, jacks, spanners, socket set excetra.

Then I think you are cabable to do a ATF change/check.

Take a looke here: http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=124816

[SD1too]

O.K. Tim, do you want to do it Beinet1's way, which drains the entire contents of the transmission, or do you want to just check the level as I described earlier?

It's not an easy decision because I'm not certain that your fluid level is low, or that it will need changing, but it's possible. It's probably more likely that you have the reverse piston fault, but it's easy to go for the complicated solution first only to find that the problem turns out to be simple! :o

Have a think about it.

Simon

[beinet1]

O.K. Tim, do you want to do it Beinet1's way, which drains the entire contents of the transmission, or do you want to just check the level as I described earlier?

It's not an easy decision because I'm not certain that your fluid level is low, or that it will need changing, but it's possible. It's probably more likely that you have the reverse piston fault, but it's easy to go for the complicated solution first only to find that the problem turns out to be simple! :o

Have a think about it.

Simon

I think a fluid level check would be the first port off call here.

Add 0,5 litre of fluid to the gearbox and then set the level according to the procedure (warm oil, engine running, remove level plug, replace plug when oil only drips out). This will also give you a picture of how the ATF in there looks/smells.

[SD1too]

I think a fluid level check would be the first port off call here.

Add 0,5 litre of fluid to the gearbox and then set the level according to the procedure (warm oil, engine running, remove level plug, replace plug when oil only drips out). This will also give you a picture of how the ATF in there looks/smells.
:iagree:

Simon

[TimLawman]

Hi to all for the advice,

I have been working away for the last few days so I have been unable to get back for an update.

While I have been away, I have taken to opportunity to call a few auto box "specialists" and have nearly been in tears.

I have been told that because my car no longer drives in any of the gears then I have missed my chance at the quick fix (reverse cylinder) and now the gear box needs to be removed "as the car (you will have to work with me on this one) has sucked in the filter and needs to be unblocked".

To be honest I really don't know what this means apart from the quote of £850 - £900, which is more than I can afford.

I have to ask two questions:-

1. does this make sense to anyone?

2. would it be cheaper (I see I can get a replacement box for approx £250 - £300) to buy one and have it fitted instead, or would this lead to its own problems?

All advice / help sought and greatly received.

Thanks, Tim (who still loves Rovers !)

[crofts]

Easy way. Phone Sussex autos Tel No 01323 848886...Mike
Ask his advice re filter and his other suggestions.
Last price i had for the reverse piston was £35.61 + VAT but you may need other small items.
'beinet1' has experience of reverse piston change and did a 'How To' I think.
(& an excellent 'How To' on doing a FULL ATF change, about 8 litres)

[crofts]

Auto Gearbox Fail - Advice Sought

Hi To All.

I have just bought a Y reg Auto Diesel Rover 75 (3rd one but my first auto) with 58,000 miles on the clock (seems genuine as I have the old mot's)

After 11 miles the gearbox started to play up, it seemed that 4th and 5th gear was slipping (as a manual box would) letting it over rev but without any pulling power, but the gear changes were not jerky.
Going up a small hill it lost power and eventually stopped pulling at all. After turning off and restarting the car the box started to work again
I nursed the car home very slowly and on the final 500 yards (3.5 miles), the gearbox total stopped working.
I can put the stick into all diffrent postions with nothing happens to the car at all.
So it got towed home in neutral.I have looked for an answer here in the forums but I can not find one for unresponsive box.
I wonder if there is anyone out there in Rover land that may have come accross / had this problem?
If so I would greatly appreciate any help, no matter how small it may be. :}
Regards,
Tim

Tim. If the box did that after only 11 miles for sure he knew the box was giving problems period.
Cars prior to approx mid 2003 were prone to suffer the cracked reverse piston problem.
Slipping initially in 4th/5th gear is usually the first sign from what I have seen from other members