Rear Brake Shoes.

[Heddy]

Can't get the handbrake to hold. Has new shoes, discs, adjusters are fine (all clean) no restriction on cable movement and a compensator is fitted. For my own satisfaction, and peace of mind, I'm changing the shoes, just in case of contamination/poor quality etc. I believe Pagid are fitted so not getting them again, even though they get good reviews on here. So, Mintex, Apec, or Borg and Beck. Not a lot of difference price wise, your recommendations please.
Cheers.

[macafee2]

when I fitted new discs and shoes my handbrake did not hold at first. even had the wheels off to re-adjust the brakes but still nowt. one day it just held and worked ever since. I think it could have been that they needed to bed in. I saw some advice somewhere that once fitted the handbrake should be just applied and the car driven forward slowly to aide the bedding in
macafee2

[kbonney88]

Saw this on here the other day.. don't automatically think that you need new shoes.. I would try the set up procedure again..

[Heddy]

when I fitted new discs and shoes my handbrake did not hold at first. even had the wheels off to re-adjust the brakes but still nowt. one day it just held and worked ever since. I think it could have been that they needed to bed in. I saw some advice somewhere that once fitted the handbrake should be just applied and the car driven forward slowly to aide the bedding in
macafee2

I saw that too Ian, I've tried it all, just feels like a lack of friction, the brakes were new last year, (not in my ownership) and the handbrake has never been good. Will try a new set of shoes, just debating what make at the mo.:}

[wuzerk]

Can't get the handbrake to hold. Has new shoes, discs, adjusters are fine (all clean) no restriction on cable movement and a compensator is fitted. For my own satisfaction, and peace of mind, I'm changing the shoes, just in case of contamination/poor quality etc. I believe Pagid are fitted so not getting them again, even though they get good reviews on here. So, Mintex, Apec, or Borg and Beck. Not a lot of difference price wise, your recommendations please.
Cheers.
Are you saying that ,with the rear wheels off of the ground you could not adjust the handbrake, at the wheels. to lock them solid?

[Heddy]

Are you saying that ,with the rear wheels off of the ground you could not adjust the handbrake, at the wheels. to lock them solid?

No mate, the adjusters work fine, and have been adjusted correctly, but the handbrake won't hold on 2-3 clicks. Even on 5 clicks, (and that needs a lot of force to pull on) car doesn't hold still that great. Just feels like a lack of friction between shoe and drum.:shrug:

[Heddy]

Saw this on here the other day.. don't automatically think that you need new shoes.. I would try the set up procedure again..

Set them up around 3 times now, even did the 6mph for 100yds thing, (even though I felt it was a little severe) must be the friction material.:shrug:

[wuzerk]

No mate, the adjusters work fine, and have been adjusted correctly, but the handbrake won't hold on 2-3 clicks. Even on 5 clicks, (and that needs a lot of force to pull on) car doesn't hold still that great. Just feels like a lack of friction between shoe and drum.:shrug:
Heddy, sorry to keep on but ignore the handbrake clicks I meant could you adjust at each wheel adjuster so that each wheel became locked solid i.e.
you were unable to turn it by hand.

[Heddy]

Yes, callipers were removed to get a better 'feel' of the drag on the shoes. I really have tried everything, as I said earlier, all adjusters are fine and will lock the wheels when over adjusted. I welcome all comments. :shrug:

[Dragrad]

As this thread has now got more "Technical"....

Thread moved to appropriate forum. Re-direct left in old.;)

[Doc Evil]

Hi Heddy
The cables could have stretched beyond the limits of the compensator or the shoe could need deglazing get some emery cloth and rub over the shoes
If you are determined to swap shoes I would normally recommend Pagids but if you don't want theese Borg are very good they do excellent clutch linnings
Doc:cool:

[Heddy]

Hi Heddy
The cables could have stretched beyond the limits of the compensator or the shoe could need deglazing get some emery cloth and rub over the shoes
If you are determined to swap shoes I would normally recommend Pagids but if you don't want theese Borg are very good they do excellent clutch linnings
Doc:cool:

Hello Doc, pretty sure the cables are fine, all working as they should, it's down to the grip of the shoes on the drum. I've de-glazed the shoes and drums so really must try a new set of shoes.
Cheers.

[David Lawrence]

Hello Doc, pretty sure the cables are fine, all working as they should, it's down to the grip of the shoes on the drum. I've de-glazed the shoes and drums so really must try a new set of shoes.
Cheers.



I've been through this, and as others have said, the new shoes take longer than you might think to bed in. I had to do mine 3 times and as you said they felt like i was trying to stop the car with a greased drum, but then after the 3rd time they just started working.

I think that the handbrake linings must be very hard, because they take so long to bed in to the drum. When I say long, in my case it took 3 weeks of adjusting till I got back to where I was before I changed the shoes. Bizarrely this was only on one wheel, the other side worked straight away.

The Rover procedure doesn't get the brake good enough, you need to have the shoes dragging at the hub while the handbrake adjuster under the lever is slacked right off. Then tighten up the lever till you get to the 3 click stage.

[Heddy]

Hi David, I looked back to the 'progress thread' for the car made by the previous owner. The shoes were fitted 14 mths ago so should be fine now, I've ordered a new set of shoes. Have removed, checked and adjusted many times now, with no effect, so this seems the way to go.

[Doc Evil]

Try a nice new set of Borgs then Heddy and let us know how you get on
You may find the Pagids have a lot of metal in them and this is causing the problem
Good luck
Doc:cool:

[Heddy]

Try a nice new set of Borgs then Heddy and let us know how you get on
You may find the Pagids have a lot of metal in them and this is causing the problem
Good luck
Doc:cool:

B & B on order, will post results :}

[DMGRS]

Please let me know how you get on - I'm soon to be stocking B&B braking items. :)

[HarryM1BYT]

Reading this, I think the adjustment procedure is at fault - the copy of the book page as pasted above is certainly wrong.

It should be impossible to get anywhere near 6 clicks on a properly adjusted hand brake, supposing the compensator mod has been done.

Slacken of the front adjuster almost completely, then do the two drum adjustments. Take up all of the play so as to cause the drum to be fully locked, then back off one maybe two clicks. You are not looking for no rub at all from the shoes, just enough freedom to turn easily.

Then adjust at the front just enough to ensure all the play in the cable is taken up. On the flat you should be able to push the car, apply the brake one click and you should not be able to push it. If necessary, adjust at the front a little more to get like that. Two clicks should then hold it easily on a hill, three will hold on any hill.

You are saying 6 clicks, which convinces me that the adjustment is very wrong, rather than the shoes or anything else. At 6 clicks the leverage you can apply and the pressure falls off rapidly.

[Heddy]

Thanks for the post Harry. Handbrake really is adjusted correctly, it has been adjusted correctly many times now. Problem is, there's not enough friction from the shoe material to hold the drum. Maybe the shoes have become contaminated at some time, this isn't always visible, and I didn't fit them. For the cost of new shoes I feel this is the way to go.:shrug:

[David Lawrence]

Thanks for the post Harry. Handbrake really is adjusted correctly, it has been adjusted correctly many times now. Problem is, there's not enough friction from the shoe material to hold the drum. Maybe the shoes have become contaminated at some time, this isn't always visible, and I didn't fit them. For the cost of new shoes I feel this is the way to go.:shrug:

Has this car had the compensator mod? Spurred on by your troubles went and tested mine on a steep hill again as I adjusted it for the last time 2 weeks ago, and it holds on 3. I was worried how long the new shoes took to bed in, but they have finally done so. I can't actually pull it up any more than 4. To be able to get 6 there must be gaps somewhere along the line. New shoes will be the same until the tension issue is addressed.

[HarryM1BYT]

Has this car had the compensator mod? Spurred on by your troubles went and tested mine on a steep hill again as I adjusted it for the last time 2 weeks ago, and it holds on 3. I was worried how long the new shoes took to bed in, but they have finally done so. I can't actually pull it up any more than 4. To be able to get 6 there must be gaps somewhere along the line. New shoes will be the same until the tension issue is addressed.

Correct!

Correct adjustment (ignoring both Rave and Haynes), proper bedding in and drums free of rust is the answer.

[Heddy]

Has this car had the compensator mod? Spurred on by your troubles went and tested mine on a steep hill again as I adjusted it for the last time 2 weeks ago, and it holds on 3. I was worried how long the new shoes took to bed in, but they have finally done so. I can't actually pull it up any more than 4. To be able to get 6 there must be gaps somewhere along the line. New shoes will be the same until the tension issue is addressed.

Harry's post got me thinking, it does say in the 'progress thread' on here that a compensator was fitted. Can't even remember now whether I checked, found not, and welded it up myself (it's my age you know) will get to the bottom of this:duh:

[David Lawrence]

Harry's post got me thinking, it does say in the 'progress thread' on here that a compensator was fitted. Can't even remember now whether I checked, found not, and welded it up myself (it's my age you know) will get to the bottom of this:duh:

That's good news to be at least on the home straight now.

[Heddy]

Not a job I relished, but had to check whether a modified compensator was fitted, or not. A modified one is fitted, in fact, I now remember welding it up and spraying it black. My memory is getting worse, that was like, 6 months ago:duh: When the B & B shoes arrive and they're fitted, will post up any improvement, or not:shrug:

[HarryM1BYT]

Sorry to keep hammering away at this, but it really is your adjustment procedure which is at fault.

You are aiming for zero drag from the shoes and that has never been possible with shoes, as I learned in my youth from an ancient mechanic, when repeatedly failing to get the brakes on an all drum braked car to work properly.

This is clearly why so many fail to get there handbrake to work properly. As said - take up the adjustment at the hub, just as far as it will go so as to lock the hub, maybe apply the handbrake too, to square the shoes up, release, then back the adjustment off, 1 or 2 clicks, just enough to free the hub so there is no appreciable drag - you are really NOT aiming for zero drag, that is not achievable.

If you have concerns, take it for a drive around then feel the hubs, if the are warm - you have it set too tight. If you cannot push the car on the level, it is too tight. Correct, is a very noticeable difference between handbrake off and handbrake on 1 click, as in you should not be able to push it at all.

[Heddy]

Blimey, fancy posting in the same minute:D I know what you're saying Harry, insufficient drag means that the shoes are 'missing' the drum at the top, and when the handbrake is pulled it is holding on the bottom half of the shoe only. :}

[David Lawrence]

Not a job I relished, but had to check whether a modified compensator was fitted, or not. A modified one is fitted, in fact, I now remember welding it up and spraying it black. My memory is getting worse, that was like, 6 months ago:duh: When the B & B shoes arrive and they're fitted, will post up any improvement, or not:shrug:

The weld is still holding is it? Could it be opening up when you pull hard on it?

[Doc Evil]

Not a job I relished, but had to check whether a modified compensator was fitted, or not. A modified one is fitted, in fact, I now remember welding it up and spraying it black. My memory is getting worse, that was like, 6 months ago:duh: When the B & B shoes arrive and they're fitted, will post up any improvement, or not:shrug:

Glad to see I'm not the only one (can't remember what I'm the only one of now)

When I adjust shoes I adjust up till the hub won't move then pull up the handbrake to centralise shoes then adjust again and pull handbrake its a pain as you have to do it maybe 5-6 times then its two click tops
However I'm sure you know what your doing and its likely to be too much metal in the shoe linning make up
Doc:cool:

[Heddy]

The weld is still holding is it? Could it be opening up when you pull hard on it?

Cheeky:D Yeah, weld is fine, I put some good blobs on with enough heat:}

[HarryM1BYT]

Cheeky:D Yeah, weld is fine, I put some good blobs on with enough heat:}

The original compensator is almost strong enough. The very act of reforming the metal rod back to its original shape work hardens it and makes it strong enough for the purpose, the welding just makes absolutely sure it doesn't move.

To misquote - When all else has been eliminated, what remains has to be the source of the problem...