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Steven.walsh
14th July 2014, 09:02
Hi,
Hope one and all doing well.

Was thinking about buying MG ZT CDTI advertised as spares or repair, huge spec,
sat nav, sunroof, FHB, black alacantara leather, rear sun blind, electric seats, zenons etc.
Few wks ago posted problem regarding this car about extreme difficulty in starting MG ZT CDTI from cold and once hot, problem having got progressively worse over about 6 mth period until now not drive-able as so difficult to start.

So thought I'd update folk.

Have actually bought the car for £650.
Any thoughts or further advice would be much appreciated.

Car done 165000 FSH.
Previous owner had local garage fit new glow plugs and reconditioned HP Pump in attempt to fix starting issue, to no avail.

I am hoping it is faulty injectors.

Yesterday carried out a diesel fuel injector leakback check,
thanks MarinaBrian for the how to.

With car running for 3 and half mins injectors 1,2&4 produced 50ml whilst injector 3 produced 55ml.

36959
http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=36959&d=1405328194

I assume this is ok or is this excessive and in fact all four injectors are faulty.???


Just for clarity:-
1). With engine off I clamped fuel return pipe after injector No.1. This to prevent diesel spewing out.
2). I pulled off all 4 clips around top of injector and carefully prized of the black plastic plug stuck into injectors.
3). I connected my leak back tester pipes into where the fuel leakback black plugs went into the top of the injectors pushing clips back on to ensure secure fitment.
4). Started car and left running until containers full, approx 3 and half mins.

Question:
Have read by removing return fuel pipes from injectors, clamping return fuel pipe after injector No.1, then disconnecting all 4 electrical plugs from injectors and at this point crank the car over I should see no diesel in tops of injectors and if I do then injectors are goosed.
Could someone clarify if this is the definitive test????

Some info on once started how car runs so folk get a better picture of my issue and hopefully some potential causes:-
Car takes over half an hour to fire up from cold. Needs fully charged battery and my other MG ZT Running with battery jump leads connected to get car turning over as fast as possible.
Lots of grey smoke during the half hours attempts and when eventually chuggs into life huge cloud of black smoke.
Once going is chuggy when first rev it but once revving does so freely.
Lots of grey smoke.
If leave idling for awhile then rev again black smoke and as said before initially chuggy until revs get up.
No power when driving until 2000 or so revs then pulls like a train,
Mixture of grey and black smoke when driving, not masses of it but none the less it's there.
MAF is disconnected.
When driving there is a whooshing whistling sound from under bonnet at about 2200 revs through to 2500 revs.
Car will start when hot but turns over for a good 30 secs then slowly splutters into life.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Take care
Steve

wizzo337
17th July 2014, 05:11
This sounds very similar to my issues, mine had injectors that's were not properly sealed in the head. This caused the compression to drop low enough at idle to prevent the charge from igniting and producing grey smoke, the idle was very lumpy but once at 2000 rpm all was improved.
I would suggest pop the injectors and change the sealing washers, they are only cheap.
Good luck and let us know how you get on.
Wizzo337

Steven.walsh
17th July 2014, 07:01
Cheers Wizzo,
Much appreciated,
Am actually this morning trying to source the rubber O RING seal near head of injector and copper seal at tip of injector, where did you source yours from?
Looking into specs and having confirmation off French Mike permitted levels of leak back are 20ml in 2 mins so 50ml ish in 3.5 mins is 42% out of spec, hope my maths correct.
Have from a running dinar car swapped injectors to proof to myself is the prob as sending off to Lynx diesels is £90 each for refurb.
Sadly car still didn't start but this time no masses of grey smoke out of exhaust whilst turning over, injectors 1 and 2 bouncing up and down ever so slightly with oil and diesel mix spitting up from engine passed seal so suspect as you had this latter set up has poorly fitting injectors.
Once got new seals will re-fit and hopefully satisfy myself is original injectors at fault before I spend the pennies.
Toodleloo
Stevie

klarzy
17th July 2014, 07:29
Slowly failing cam sensor...

wizzo337
18th July 2014, 03:11
Cheers Wizzo,
Much appreciated,
Am actually this morning trying to source the rubber O RING seal near head of injector and copper seal at tip of injector, where did you source yours from?
Looking into specs and having confirmation off French Mike permitted levels of leak back are 20ml in 2 mins so 50ml ish in 3.5 mins is 42% out of spec, hope my maths correct.
Have from a running dinar car swapped injectors to proof to myself is the prob as sending off to Lynx diesels is £90 each for refurb.
Sadly car still didn't start but this time no masses of grey smoke out of exhaust whilst turning over, injectors 1 and 2 bouncing up and down ever so slightly with oil and diesel mix spitting up from engine passed seal so suspect as you had this latter set up has poorly fitting injectors.
Once got new seals will re-fit and hopefully satisfy myself is original injectors at fault before I spend the pennies.
Toodleloo
Stevie

Managed to get mine from a local motor factors in Peterborough, but you can get them off the fleabay too. Quite cheap less than a tenner for all four copper washers. Made a whole world of difference to mine.

fooman
18th July 2014, 08:22
If it is the earlier model with in tank fuel pump check this is running, the diesel is hard to start if this has failed, especially if the tank is low. You should be able to hear it with the ignition on under the back seat.

Steven.walsh
2nd September 2014, 17:37
Just found time earlier this week to do a little more investigation.
Had put injector collars back in upside down, doh. hence the bouncing injectors!!
Mmmm so with donar car injectors in my project car now with collars right way up and new seals and no leaks at all car pretty much has the same fault!!!!! A mare to start and runs rough with lots of smoke.
NOTE: Donor car (Estate CDTI 2003) injectors work perfectly, well car runs 100% so assuming they are.

Attachment below is from FrenchMike, based on this info I have made the following assumption from my results thus far:-
So you should get 20ml of leak back per injector during a 2 min period.
For my test I ran the car for 3 and a half mins so for 3 and half mins that should be 35ml,
My amount approx 50ml in 3 and a half mins
so some 15ml more than expected,
A 43% increase on expected tolerance.
MATHS NOT MY STRONG POINT HOPE THAT'S RIGHT!!!!

http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&jsonp=vglnk_jsonp_14093021094058&key=5e19687329e09ebd2a52b527fe77b775&libId=fe328d5b-37c6-4e30-a844-071686a65fab&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.mg-rover.org%2Fshowthread.php%3Fp%3D5197733%26posted% 3D1%23post5197733&v=1&out=http%3A%2F%2Frovermg1.free.fr%2Frovermg%2Fimag es%2FeuD9WHYP7ELkGLwBoHyr.jpg&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.mg-rover.org%2Fshowthread.php%3Ft%3D685330&title=2003%2075%20cdti%20auto%20wont%20start%20-%20HELP%20NEEDED%20-%20MG-Rover.org%20Forums&txt=%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0AReport%20this%20 image


So now have put the suspected faulty injectors from none running car into my Estate CDTI, expecting it not to start, once the system was primed approx x4 attempts to turn over fired up, and has fired up since from cold and hot straight away and runs perfectly. A friend is currently running it because his car has died and is still running spot on.
So now I am confused,
I will need to check the figures FrenchMike kindly passed on but am confident these will be correct.
So now at an impass,
albeit I guess from my experiences caution should be excersised before having the injectors refurbished, as at face value it appears mine seem ok even though they failed the leak back test, Mmmm slighty condradictory statement I know.......
I am going to repeat the leak back check on both cars hopefully next week but for 2 mins as per Mike's instruction just to be sure.
Then I'll try all French Mike's checks with a meter for Camshaft sensors etc,
Check all intercooler hoses etc for splits, bulging, oil spray etc.
Will update as soon as I have any further news.
Thanks to all that have posted from this forum and those from the other side very much appreciated.
Take care
Steve

Kyletrek
2nd September 2014, 19:46
Have you checked the intercooler I rings for leaks as I got a whooshing sound when these worked loose and also the pcv valve. If not could ecu be a possibility?

Dragrad
3rd September 2014, 00:42
Thread moved to appropriate forum. Re-direct left in old.