A question for the experts.

[wuzerk]

A question about diesel engine Hydramount linkage. The first pic is of a spare linkage I have, the second is of my 03 diesel. The first pic has a solid, heavy, block of metal welded to it (marked with an 'X') which is not present on my car. I assume it was fitted on the earlier models as additional damping for the linkage between the rubber 'Acorn' and the secondary engine mount which is bolted to the O/S wing? Anyone know the history?

http://imageshack.com/a/img661/4959/5a9526.jpghttp://imageshack.com/a/img537/7122/4473ab.jpg

[Avulon]

I don't know the history but can confirm that my 03 diesel also has the block.

[klarzy]

looks like a stiffener... is it welded at the bottom?

[wuzerk]

I don't know the history but can confirm that my 03 diesel also has the block.
Thanks, is your diesel vibration free by any chance?

[wuzerk]

looks like a stiffener... is it welded at the bottom?
It is welded on three sides and is too heavy and solid for a stiffener, a simple plate would have done that job. Looks like a damper to me. They might have deleted it because, with it fitted, it is nigh on impossible to release the nut on the top of the rubber acorn in order to raise the engine without straining the
rubber.

[Avulon]

Thanks, is your diesel vibration free by any chance?

No, I do suspect that the engine mounts are starting to need replacement at 147k miles vibration around 2000 rpm under load has become more apparent over the last few months.

[wuzerk]

No, I do suspect that the engine mounts are starting to need replacement at 147k miles vibration around 2000 rpm under load has become more apparent over the last few months.
Well, if you are happy that the Lower Engine mount is ok and the vibration is felt through the steering wheel and maybe the seats I would suspect the
rubber 'acorn' Hydramount (the one the engine actually sits on). I have just had a good result by changing it. The cheapest supplier I found for it (diesel) is:
http://www.allcarpartsfast.co.uk/mg-rover/mg-rover-kkb101923-mounting-assembly-engine-rubber/ (http://www.allcarpartsfast.co.uk/mg-rover/mg-rover-kkb101923-mounting-assembly-engine-rubber/)
part No. KKB101923

[DMGRS]

I need to change my Hydramount, as does my friend in his ZT. We've both got a bit of vibration when accelerating, and inspection has found they're both quite badly cracked with age.
Both cars are on 131,000 miles.

[wuzerk]

I need to change my Hydramount, as does my friend in his ZT. We've both got a bit of vibration when accelerating, and inspection has found they're both quite badly cracked with age.
Both cars are on 131,000 miles.
Well, my car has only done 74000 miles but the new 'acorn' has transformed it.I couldn't even see any cracking until I removed it.

[DMGRS]

Well, my car has only done 74000 miles but the new 'acorn' has transformed it.I couldn't even see any cracking until I removed it.

Mine must be bad - I can see it while in situ. Time to save pennies, it seems!
Thanks for bringing it to my attention, I'll be glad to get rid of the constant vibration. The lower mount is a brand new OEM item.

[peelaaa]

I need to change my Hydramount, as does my friend in his ZT. We've both got a bit of vibration when accelerating, and inspection has found they're both quite badly cracked with age.
Both cars are on 131,000 miles.

My car on 162k gets a vibration only when accelerating at about 1500-2000rpm.
Vibration noise is heard more than felt behind the dashboard.

Is that the vibration you are getting?

[First_damned]

My car on 162k gets a vibration only when accelerating at about 1500-2000rpm.
Vibration noise is heard more than felt behind the dashboard.

Is that the vibration you are getting?

Mine does this also

[wuzerk]

My car on 162k gets a vibration only when accelerating at about 1500-2000rpm.
Vibration noise is heard more than felt behind the dashboard.

Is that the vibration you are getting?
This sounds more like something vibrating in sympathy. If it was my kind of vibration you would feel it through the steering wheel and possibly the seats.
(Before I changed the Hydramount).

[Mike Noc]

A question about diesel engine Hydramount linkage. The first pic is of a spare linkage I have, the second is of my 03 diesel. The first pic has a solid, heavy, block of metal welded to it (marked with an 'X') which is not present on my car. I assume it was fitted on the earlier models as additional damping for the linkage between the rubber 'Acorn' and the secondary engine mount which is bolted to the O/S wing? Anyone know the history?

http://imageshack.com/a/img661/4959/5a9526.jpghttp://imageshack.com/a/img537/7122/4473ab.jpg

My earlier CDT has the damper, and my later one doesn't, but the later one is an automatic so could it be that the autos were never fitted with them? :shrug:

[Snagger]

Interesting Mr Wuzerk.

My 02 diesel manual does not have this additional linkage component.

At 142k I've no doubt my hydromount could do with replacing as at tick over, vibration via the steering wheel is slowly becoming more pronounced, more noticeably from cold.

But then don't most diesel engines until warmish.

Have you weighed the difference between the two ?

It would be interesting to see what weight they came up with.


Snagger.

[wuzerk]

Interesting Mr Wuzerk.

My 02 diesel manual does not have this additional linkage component.

At 142k I've no doubt my hydromount could do with replacing as at tick over, vibration via the steering wheel is slowly becoming more pronounced, more noticeably from cold.

But then don't most diesel engines until warmish.

Have you weighed the difference between the two ?

It would be interesting to see what weight they came up with.


Snagger.
Yes, a good idea, but unfortunately I cannot remove the linkage on my auto without jacking up the engine so that the large bolt (visible in the picture with the weight attached) clears the inner wing. What I can do is weigh the heavier linkage and perhaps somebody with the lighter assembly handy can weigh that? If I know the difference I can strap that on to my cars link and see if it makes any difference whatsoever without taking anything apart.
EDIT: The link with the weight weighs 840grams, not far off of 2 lbs!
REQUEST: If any owner has to change the secondary engine mount (the one bolted to the O/S wing with three bolts) because the rubber is split
I would like to buy it please. Keep me in mind.wuzerk

[wuzerk]

Yes, a good idea, but unfortunately I cannot remove the linkage on my auto without jacking up the engine so that the large bolt (visible in the picture with the weight attached) clears the inner wing. What I can do is weigh the heavier linkage and perhaps somebody with the lighter assembly handy can weigh that? If I know the difference I can strap that on to my cars link and see if it makes any difference whatsoever without taking anything apart.
EDIT: The link with the weight weighs 840grams, not far off of 2 lbs!
REQUEST: If any owner has to change the secondary engine mount (the one bolted to the O/S wing with three bolts) because the rubber is split
I would like to buy it please. Keep me in mind.wuzerk
No posting for the weight so I decided to strap the complete heavier linkage
on to my linkage to see if I could detect any difference at the steering wheel.
I found no noticeable difference.

[hog-man80]

Does this mount have any influence on clutch problems?
Paul.

[wuzerk]

Does this mount have any influence on clutch problems?
Paul.
Extremely unlikely IMO. The LOWER engine mount is much more likely to have some influence during gear changes.

[thomas 75 connie]

My 51 plate diesel auto doesnt have that middle bit

[wuzerk]

My 51 plate diesel auto doesn't have that middle bit
So we have both manual and auto cars with the weight fitted so it is still a mystery.

[Mike Noc]

Think we need a bit more feedback on what is fitted where - could be a manual/auto difference in design with a few being fitted or replaced incorrectly, or maybe yet another result of Project Drive? :shrug:

So Your Forum Needs You! How old is your car, which type of mount do you have and is it a manual or automatic?

[brgcdti]

My last '03 manual saloon had the extra part to the mount, whereas my '03 auto Tourer does not. :shrug:

and a friends '01 auto Tourer is the same as mine.

[peelaaa]

2005 tourer diesel manual, has the extra black weight

[Mike Noc]

Thanks for the replies. Looks like it may be an auto/manual difference then.

Just checked Rimmer Bros, and they do list two alternatives for the mount. Only one picture though but it is of the automatic mount and without the damper weight.

The other mount is a bit more expensive, so could be because it has the damper weight. Shame they don't show a picture of it.

Item 5 here: http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-GRID001744

[wuzerk]

Thanks for the replies. Looks like it may be an auto/manual difference then.

Just checked Rimmer Bros, and they do list two alternatives for the mount. Only one picture though but it is of the automatic mount and without the damper weight.

The other mount is a bit more expensive, so could be because it has the damper weight. Shame they don't show a picture of it.

Item 5 here: http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-GRID001744
So, the lighter one is clearly marked auto. Intrigueing. AVULONs auto has the weight but we will never know why.

[HarryM1BYT]

Mid 2004 diesel manual and yes mine does have the weight in place.

[Steve1966]

Mike Noc contacted me for a comment so here goes:

I may be able to shed a bit of light on the subject (although it has been over a decade). All from memory so; the extra mass on the link bracket was brought in (along with the weight under the hydramount) on diesel manuals at launch to alleviate a whine eminating from the timing chain at about 2600 rpm. I assume it was also on Diesel autos when they went into production some while later. During/after Project drive various items were the subject for deletion. We would have tested to see if the mass could be deleted. I can't recall that it ever was but it could have been. You can see from the part number on Rimmers that the one with the mass is much later in the design process than the one without. I think the mass under the hydramount remained on both manuals and autos till the end. Don't forget that if the production line didn't have any brackets with masses they would fit one without to save stopping the line. The one without is common across all of the petrol models and would fit the diesel (and is stated on Rimmers as being for the automatic diesel). Not definitive but either way it probably doesn't really matter whether you have it not.

Steve.

[Mike Noc]

Thanks Steve. Wuzerk did pose the question for the experts. ;) :D

[wuzerk]

Mike Noc contacted me for a comment so here goes:

I may be able to shed a bit of light on the subject (although it has been over a decade). All from memory so; the extra mass on the link bracket was brought in (along with the weight under the hydramount) on diesel manuals at launch to alleviate a whine eminating from the timing chain at about 2600 rpm. Don't forget that if the production line didn't have any brackets with masses they would fit one without to save stopping the line. Not definitive but either way it probably doesn't really matter whether you have it not.

Steve.
Thanks Steve, some surprising points you made. 'to eliminate a whine eminating from the timing chain'! How on earth would that work?
All the work trying to eliminate a problem and then the production line
fitted whatever they had regardless! I agree that it probably doesn't
matter as I added the weighted one to my unweighted one and did not notice any difference.

[klarzy]

Thanks Steve, some surprising points you made. 'to eliminate a whine eminating from the timing chain'! How on earth would that work?


Absorbsion of sympathetic vibration

[okenora]

does this help.....

click here (http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=150454&highlight=welded+weight)

[Steve1966]

Thanks okenora. I had a feeling I had mentioned this before. I'm not getting any younger in the memory department.

Steve.

[Steve1966]

Thanks Steve, some surprising points you made.
All the work trying to eliminate a problem and then the production line
fitted whatever they had regardless! I agree that it probably doesn't
matter as I added the weighted one to my unweighted one and did not notice any difference.

I'm not saying that the line did fit unweighted link brackets in lieu of a weighted ones, but that could explain the odd anomaly. It's possible that parts supply was never an issue.

What you have to remember is that we we're trying to create the best front wheel drive in the world. Even if 95% of customers would never notice this annoying little whine at a certain engine speed we would still strive to eliminate it. Obviously there would be a cost limit eventually but if it could be fixed then it would be. The reason why the upper bush behind the hydramount has a different rubber shape between, say, diesel and 1.8, is due to another noise (boom) in the car. We could have softer rubber on the 1.8 using the same mould as the diesel but it needed to be softer in the vertical rate as well as the fore/aft torque reacting direction. Hence on the 1.8 it is of a much thinner 'X' design to give a vertical rate lower than just a softer rubber could give (and still be durable). Wherever possible parts will always be commonised due to cost / complexity. If they're different they'll always be a reason however subtle.

Steve.

[badrover]

My 2002 cdt manual has got the extra weight.

[kourgath]

As has mine - Sept 02 cdt

[wuzerk]

As has mine - Sept 02 cdt
Yes but is it a manual or an auto?

[Best_of_British]

2002 CDT manual and has the weight.

[kourgath]

Sorry, its a manual.

[tourer]

Build date, Aug 2002.
Auto CDT Tourer. NO weight.