Vibration Part 3

[hogweed]

With a heavy heart… car’s vibrating again, as bad as ever I reckon.

It may be worth going back over the whole story, in case anything strikes a chord with anybody out there – I know several are suffering from similar problems.

Part 1

A year or two ago, I was getting quite annoyed with the buzzing vibration I could feel in the steering wheel etc around 1800rpm. Lots of reading on here, lots of questions – people reckoned the bottom engine mount, so I got it changed.

This made a big difference, and I was happy. However, over a few weeks maybe (hard to remember now) it got worse again – but it wasn’t TOO bad, so I put off doing anything about it.

Part 2

A couple of months ago, it fairly suddenly got noticeably worse, and was really annoying – again lots of reading here, and the consensus seemed to be to replace the big hydramount, so I got that done.

Again, a big difference – I was really pleased.

Part 3

You know how you think you've sorted out some long-lasting problem in life, and gradually become aware that actually, you haven’t? At first, you refuse to acknowledge it – this is known as being in denial, or “being positive”, depending on your outlook; then, eventually, you're forced to come to terms with it.

Over the what, three weeks, since I’ve had the big mounting done, the vibration has gradually returned. I’m not sure it’s as bad as it was before I got this one replaced, but it’s certainly a lot worse than it was after the replacement.

Sigh.

Unless the forum experts tell me that the new mount has failed already, I’m going to discount that. I really don’t think this is about failed engine mounts any more – something happened when they replaced both mounts which made the vibe go away temporarily, then return.

If, for example, the bottom mount had failed again after being replaced, replacing the top one wouldn't have fixed THAT problem, albeit temporarily.

Is there anything about the process of moving the engine about or whatever to replace the mount that could temporarily stop something vibrating? Any obvious culprits?

At my wits’ end here. The chanting of my friends about “Why do you think Rover went out of business Rog… get yourself a nice little Focus, or maybe a Golf” is getting louder…

[EastPete]

I do think that disturbing the engine mounts can upset things- I had some vibration after a clutch change on my car, but I went round and slackened the bolts on the gearbox mount and lower engine mount, jiggled the engine around a bit, then retightened everything, and it did improve things (but not completely). I think some folks on here say that the alignment of the lower mount with the bracket on the subframe is important- if out of alignment, this can cause vibration. This might have been disturbed when doing the hydramount (in fact I think you may have to remove it to raise the engine to get the 'acorn' off, but I not sure about this).

It would start by checking the alignment/tightness of all engine mounts - one of them might have worked loose since the hydramount was replaced.

Other culprits might be:

- Worn gearbox mount (not replaced, I believe ?)
- Crankshaft pulley worn
- Injector problem

I sure there will be other suggestions on here- let us know how you get on.

Pete

[rich17865]

Did you replace both parts of the hydramount. The cone bit and the bit that connects to the upper inner wing?

Have you had a look at the gearbox mount?

When I had vibration on my last 1.8, I replaced all four engine mounts at the same time and all problems were gone.

How are your front lower arm rear bushes? I have found they present themselves in odd ways.

[hogweed]

It would start by checking the alignment/tightness of all engine mounts - one of them might have worked loose since the hydramount was replaced.

Other culprits might be:

- Worn gearbox mount (not replaced, I believe ?)
- Crankshaft pulley worn
- Injector problem


Thanks. It’s in for a service soon, so I’ll ask them to check the tightness etc. Regarding the other suggestions, I’m not sure how it might be any of them, as on both occasions, whatever was done fixed the problem temporarily – how could it be (eg) a worn pulley or injectors if that happens?

- yours in ignorance, Roger

[hogweed]

Did you replace both parts of the hydramount. The cone bit and the bit that connects to the upper inner wing?

Have you had a look at the gearbox mount?

When I had vibration on my last 1.8, I replaced all four engine mounts at the same time and all problems were gone.

How are your front lower arm rear bushes? I have found they present themselves in odd ways.

Thanks Rich – trouble is, I’m fairly ignorant of how modern cars are put together, so I don’t even know what those parts are.

But that notwithstanding, again, if it was (eg) gearbox mounts, or the other ones you mention, not sure how replacing the hydramount or lower mount would cure the problem for a while? Is that possible?

[rich17865]

I suspect, the new mounts are absorbing more vibration during the 'Honeymoon Period' then as they wear in, the vibration returns to normal.

There is a how to, for the gearbox mount in my signature :)

EDIT: No there isn't :D

[rich17865]

Here is it :D :duh:

http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=161522

[rich17865]

The third picture in this thread appears to be a kind of vibration damper for the hydramount, the bit I referred to earlier as the bit that connects to the wing.

http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=185009

[oldcarguy]

I jacked the engine up to change my thermostat last week and for a few days it seemed to run smoother, but its back to normal again now, would be nice to find out what causes it as it spoils the perfect drive.

[hogweed]

I suspect, the new mounts are absorbing more vibration during the 'Honeymoon Period' then as they wear in, the vibration returns to normal.

Yeah :(

Trouble is, I keep chucking money at this motor in the hope that things will work, and I suppose after all that it might turn out to be something completely different, like the exhaust or something… I'm really not competent to check these things myself, so I have to keep leaving it in...

[hogweed]

I jacked the engine up to change my thermostat last week and for a few days it seemed to run smoother, but its back to normal again now, would be nice to find out what causes it as it spoils the perfect drive.

YEAH! THAT'S exactly what I mean. Any ideas anybody???

[rich17865]

Yeah :(

Trouble is, I keep chucking money at this motor in the hope that things will work, and I suppose after all that it might turn out to be something completely different, like the exhaust or something… I'm really not competent to check these things myself, so I have to keep leaving it in...

Would it not be better for you to take it to someone like Jules? Granted it is a fair distance for you, but at least someone who knows these cars can fix it properly for you.

As for spending money on it, it is still cheaper than the losses of a new car, or the forking out mountains of money on repairing a newer one. That's how I look at it anyway.

[hogweed]

Would it not be better for you to take it to someone like Jules? Granted it is a fair distance for you, but at least someone who knows these cars can fix it properly for you.

You’re probably right, and it's a good suggestion – but am I desperate enough to go all that way, and hang around for a couple of days or whatever till he fixes it… probably not quite yet!

As for spending money on it, it is still cheaper than the losses of a new car, or the forking out mountains of money on repairing a newer one. That's how I look at it anyway.

In my better days, I agree completely – and not sure what other kind of car I could afford that would give me anything like the spec either.

PS I believe I only replaced the rubber doughnut bit of the hydramount – didn’t even know there was another part :(

[Vossy]

I am having the exact same problem, changed whatever has been needed to be changed and still it persists, roof lining is all okay as are all fixings under the bonnet, suspension components are all good but still this annoying buzz/vibration along the dash persists. I have virtually removed the dash and put foam behind everything I can unbolt, still the same. It is engine/trans related I am convinced because it happens while the car is at standstill.

On the other car issue - on Tuesday I test drove a 56 plate Volvo S60 D5SE auto, over 180 bhp in standard form, I have to say I came within an inch of buying it there and then, those big leather seats are soooo comfy and every gadget you could want, I drove about 50 miles in it and it was almost silent, no squeaks or vibrations anywhere, for a car with 155k on it impressed doesn't do it justice, the problematic DPF had been modded by a Volvo pro so it looks standard but no engine light so no future problems. The performance was incredible so unless my Maggie starts to behave herself I know where I am going.

[Richard1978]

If you can feel the vibration through the wheel, is something touching the steering column or the rack. Maybe exhaust but I'm not familiar with the routing of the exhaust under car.
Is it at 1800 RPM stationary or driving?
If it is when stationary then it is not driveshaft or gearbox related except maybe the mounts. But if you can feel it up through the column something is most likely touching your rack or steering column. Maybe it is steering pump related?

[wuzerk]

If you can feel the vibration through the wheel, is something touching the steering column or the rack. Maybe exhaust but I'm not familiar with the routing of the exhaust under car.
Is it at 1800 RPM stationary or driving?
If it is when stationary then it is not driveshaft or gearbox related except maybe the mounts. But if you can feel it up through the column something is most likely touching your rack or steering column. Maybe it is steering pump related?
I think you are mistaken there. My diesel vibration was felt, at tickover, through the steering wheel and the seats. The cure, after many many attempts to cure it was to fit a new Hydramount (Acorn) which transformed the car. It was splitting on the top rubber section and allowed so much engine movement that a secondary resonance was set up which transmitted through the car to the column and the seats. The Hydramounts are different for petrol and diesel models.

[hogweed]

I think you are mistaken there. My diesel vibration was felt, at tickover, through the steering wheel and the seats. The cure, after many many attempts to cure it was to fit a new Hydramount (Acorn) which transformed the car. It was splitting on the top rubber section and allowed so much engine movement that a secondary resonance was set up which transmitted through the car to the column and the seats. The Hydramounts are different for petrol and diesel models.

Mine's strictly around the 1800rpm mark. It is related to engine speed; not movement speed or anything else. I can feel it through the wheel and floor, but that's where my hands and feet are - no doubt I'd feel it everywhere else too if I tried.

[oldcarguy]

I was working on the car today and having removed the O/S/F wheel arch liner it appears that the hydramount is leaning over, which you don't notice from the top. The mount on the gearbox is slotted, so I think its a case of remove and refit that to try and get the hydramount upright, or replace it if necessary.
Hopefully that will ease the vibrations.

[ProfDave]

The exhaust routing and mountings and such is worth a look I think? If it goes away for a while when the car has been jacked up. My initial exhaust slowly settled after it had been jacked up and then it eventually started buzzing from underneath. Gone now as I change the entire exhaust and the mounts in the end. You should be able to see if its close to something by crawling under and giving it a waggle. Costs nowt to look!

[ProfDave]

I have also seen some posts about tourers where there is a vibration from one of the steel roof strengtheners

[Jim W]

I would check the exhaust just to be on safe side as hanger brackets tend to rot and come apart I even had a hanger snap off the back box causing vibration as it was only held on by one rubber.

[hogweed]

Thanks guys - it's going in for a service next month, and I'll get them to check the exhaust etc then.

[Anon3]

What do you expect?
It's a flaming tractor! :D

In all seriousness, I wonder if the weight of the car needs to be on the floor when you tighten the mountings?

I can't see why it would matter, but you never know.

Just a thought.

[hogweed]

It's a flaming tractor! :D

Yeah :duh:

[Vanbursta]

I had exactly these symptoms and it was an out of balance driveshaft, only cost £30.00 to get them both rebalanced.

[hogweed]

I had exactly these symptoms and it was an out of balance driveshaft, only cost £30.00 to get them both rebalanced.

Anybody think that could be temporarily cured by the procedure used to fit a new engine mount?

[wuzerk]

I was working on the car today and having removed the O/S/F wheel arch liner it appears that the hydramount is leaning over, which you don't notice from the top. The mount on the gearbox is slotted, so I think its a case of remove and refit that to try and get the hydramount upright, or replace it if necessary.
Hopefully that will ease the vibrations.
If the car was on level ground then either the Hydramount is failing or you need to loosen the two 15mm bolts which lock the black metal linkage to the
secondary mount which is connected to the O/S wing by three bolts so that the linkage can find its own position with the engine on tickover. You could mark the original position of the two bolts with a pencil before you try. (The two bolts with the black lines on them)
http://imageshack.com/a/img538/5818/H5UrKX.jpg

[oldcarguy]

If the car was on level ground then either the Hydramount is failing or you need to loosen the two 15mm bolts which lock the black metal linkage to the
secondary mount which is connected to the O/S wing by three bolts so that the linkage can find its own position with the engine on tickover. You could mark the original position of the two bolts with a pencil before you try. (The two bolts with the black lines on them)
http://imageshack.com/a/img538/5818/H5UrKX.jpg

Just had all that off to change the thermostat, I think the problem lies at the gearbox mount as when I tried to use the tensioner spanner on the belt tensioner when I changed the alternator it wouldn't fit between the chassis rail and tensioner. I did slacken the g/box mount off and try to move the engine some months back but it looks like I will need to remove/check/replace.

[minimutly]

Vanbursta I had exactly these symptoms and it was an out of balance driveshaft, only cost £30.00 to get them both rebalanced.

Well that must be an industry 1st, methinks you were conned there.

[ProfDave]

Anybody think that could be temporarily cured by the procedure used to fit a new engine mount?

your vibration is I thought rev related only not requiring drive so doubtful that its anything related to the actual drive train