URGENT HELP NEEDED (master Cylinder)

[spawn666]

My clutch went recently and the local garage are working on it today.

They have just called to say that they think it needs a new master cylinder, they state that it's a non bleed cylinder. Is this true?

[stocktake]

The cyl has a seal in the top of it as far as I know. all that needs to be done is to remove the seal and you can refill the cyl to bleed the system, some members do it regularly, far from an easy task as it lives above the clutch pedal itself :( I believe a syringe and tubing are involved to fill the thing :(

The originals are plastic and prone to failure, much better are the TAZU replacement all metal master cyl that is supplied by some on here.

[spawn666]

He's saying, though it has a filler cap, it's not designed to be filled up.

Also, the cap is completely empty at the moment.

[d_a_n1979]

Rubbish

They are designed to be refilled; take the cap off, remove the rubber inner seal and fill it at your pleasure!

[roverbarmy]

The cyl has a seal in the top of it as far as I know. all that needs to be done is to remove the seal and you can refill the cyl to bleed the system, some members do it regularly, far from an easy task as it lives above the clutch pedal itself :( I believe a syringe and tubing are involved to fill the thing :(

The originals are plastic and prone to failure, much better are the TAZU replacement all metal master cyl that is supplied by some on here.

You can just put a cut/hole in the lower end of the condom type black seal and the fluid will flow through it, into the MC. Large syringes and plastic tube can often be bought at your local chemists. I used a cable tie to hold a bend in the end of the tube which could then be hooked into the edge of the master cylinder reservoir for topping up.

[stocktake]

Fact is that it can be filled up. (Designed to or not) It will be empty of you have had the slave fail and the master has pumped all the fluid out through it.
It is good practice to change the master in these circumstances though, many reports on here of the master failing shortly after slave changed.
Worth noting that although the guys on here have worked out how to refill these and reuse them, it may invalidate any warranty this mechanic gives regarding the clutch.

D...

[MSS]

As I mentioned in your original thread, it is unwise to replace the slave without replacing the master.

In any case, now that the garage has highlighted it, I don't see how they could warranty their work unless you do have it replaced.

[spawn666]

As I mentioned in your original thread, it is unwise to replace the slave without replacing the master.

In any case, now that the garage has highlighted it, I don't see how they could warranty their work unless you do have it replaced.

They didn't quote for this additional necessity. All the quoted for was a slave and clutch, now they want to do the master dmf.

I may as well just scrap it, I only purchased the car for £750. They are on about £1000 worth of work.

[stevestrat]

He's saying, though it has a filler cap, it's not designed to be filled up.Absolute bollox :eek: If it wasn't meant to be filled it wouldn't have a screw cap on it! I refilled mine many times between discovering a leaking slave and getting it replaced. Granted it's not an easy job, mainly due to the position of the reservoir, a syringe and tubing are essential, it can be done without them but I wouldn't fancy it.

[stocktake]

Surprised you didn't contact andy willi for a clutch he does travel. Anyway, everyone is wise after the event.



"They didn't quote for this additional necessity. All the quoted for was a slave and clutch, now they want to do the master dmf."
Note: The DMF and the master cyl are two totally different items

Fact:
The majority of DM flywheels (DMF) are within tolerance when checked and can be used again with no detriment.
It's your choice now but I would suggest if you don't have the DMF changed they will also not warranty the work, so, difficult decision to be made.

You can ask how far the DMF is outside the recommended tolerances, if they don't tell you straight away then they haven't checked it ;) What is the cost of the work they have carried out so far? maybe worth getting it back and contacting somebody on here ;)

[spawn666]

Surprised you didn't contact andy willi for a clutch he does travel. Anyway everyone is wise after the event.

Fact:
The majority of DM flywheels (DMF) are within tolerance when checked and can be used again with no detriment.
It's your choice now but I would suggest if you don't have the DMF changed they will also not warranty the work, so, difficult decision to be made.

Note: The DMF and the master cyl are two totally different items

You can ask how far the DMF is outside the recommended tolerances, if they don't tell you straight away then they haven't checked it ;) What is the cost of the work they have carried out so far? maybe worth getting it back and contacting somebody on here ;)

Thanks for that, yes I am aware, it just was a typing error (I missed the word and).

I spoke to andy willi at the time it went and he was booked for the next few weekends, then I was working the few weekends after.

[spawn666]

Ok, they are now saying that they suspect the internal seal has gone on the master cylinder.

From reading other posts about the whole clutch system, this is feasible, isn't it?

[Heddy]

DMF is a scary word, the Dual Mass Flywheel may have to be replaced depending on the 'run out'. If we're just talking about a new master cylinder then yes, they can be topped up, and bled. If the master is original then a new Tazu master cylinder is probably the best way to go. I read you have had a new slave, maybe it hasn't been bled quite enough to get rid of the air. Anyway, members on here sell master cylinders, DMGRS and andy willie. Do a search and decide which way to go. Personally, I'd try another bleed.:shrug:

[spawn666]

He's gone to get me a price

[spawn666]

DMF is a scary word, the Dual Mass Flywheel may have to be replaced depending on the 'run out'. If we're just talking about a new master cylinder then yes, they can be topped up, and bled. If the master is original then a new Tazu master cylinder is probably the best way to go. I read you have had a new slave, maybe it hasn't been bled quite enough to get rid of the air. Anyway, members on here sell master cylinders, DMGRS and andy willie. Do a search and decide which way to go. Personally, I'd try another bleed.:shrug:

I haven't had the slave done yet, this is what it was booked in for.

[stocktake]

Damien,

they have changed from " it cannot be refilled" to " they suspect the seal has gone".
Typical shift of fault to get the cash out of you.

Perhaps the garage thought:

How on earth do we refill that,
Tell him it cannot be filled.
He says he knows it can,
Oh tell him it has failed as well

[spawn666]

Damien,

they have changed from " it cannot be refilled" to " they suspect the seal has gone".
Typical shift of fault to get the cash out of you.

Perhaps the garage thought:

How on earth do we refill that,
Tell him it cannot be filled.
He says he knows it can,
Oh tell him it has failed as well

That's exactly what I thought.

This is seriously stressing me out, I've had more than my fair share of bad luck recently.

[spawn666]

So, the way I see it at the moment:

Option 1: I tell them to put the tools down, I pay for whatever work they have done so far and contact andy willi (though this would mean I would be without a car for some time)

Option 2: I say do the work I originally ask for (slave and clutch), which they do and risk it just being the master cylinder and looking like a plank.

Option 3: Authorise for them to do the master and walk away with a cheapish bill, or they were wrong and the slave needs to be done anyway.

[Ennine]

This may not apply to all but allow me to share the story of my experience. At the start of the year My son and I replaced the clutch and slave on his MGZT-T diesel. after a week the clutch pedal got lower and lower. He bled it a couple of times but after a day or so it was down again. I happen to have a spare used master that I picked up, so he replaced it. After a few days, same thing. I found a post my French Mike about cleaning out the master so my boy stripped it down and sure enough it had debris in it. Re-assembled and back in the car there was still no improvement. We were on the point of ordering a new master, In fact I was waiting for a reply for a price request and my boy decided to remove the master and bleed it out of the car. Having done this it was refitted to the car ready bled and filled. That was three months ago and the car has been perfect since.
I must add that the master was not wet at the seal, it simply refused to bleed properly.

Nige

[Heddy]

Sorry, thought they'd changed the slave. Is it leaking from the bottom of the gearbox? (Bell housing) That's a slave fault usually. If you have a dry gearbox but a wet carpet at the pedal then usually that means the master has failed. It has to be determined what has broken and needs fixing really:shrug:
PS If the slave has failed then there is every chance that the clutch has been sprayed with clutch fluid and contaminated it, rendering it useless.

[stevestrat]

Personally after the "tell him it's the ......" routine I'd be wary about letting them do anything!

[spawn666]

He reckons the bell housing is dry and the carpet was dry???? :shrug:

[Heddy]

He reckons the bell housing is dry and the carpet was dry???? :shrug:

So was your master cylinder, so where's the fluid gorn? Could have pumped out of a loose bleed nipple I suppose:shrug:

[planenut]

Have they started any dismantling work? if not, then I'd get it back because the comments seem to indicate they do not know what they are dealing with.

[DMGRS]

I agree with the above, the system on the 75 and ZT is something you want looked after by someone with a lot of experience.
If at all possible, get Andy on the job.
Normally if there's doubt over what needs changing it's best to inspect and if there's any doubt a component is causing problems, change it. Also worthy of note is the DMF - they rarely require replacement. Garages just tend to 'assume' they do.

The whole job including Master and Slave from Andy would be well under the £1000 mark. :)

[spawn666]

Thanks guys for all of your advice.

I've instructed the garage to do the master cylinder, I explained that I couldn't afford for all of the work to be done and the mechanic said he was certain.

I've told him that if the master doesn't fix it, then I will have to get the car towed away.

[DMGRS]

Fingers crossed for you mate, hope it's a simple fix. If it doesn't work for whatever reason, give Andy a call. He's your man. :)

[planenut]

I've instructed the garage to do the master cylinder, I explained that I couldn't afford for all of the work to be done and the mechanic said he was certain.
I've told him that if the master doesn't fix it, then I will have to get the car towed away.

I hope that's the answer, good luck.

[andy willi]

just call me .


get the master replaced and tell them to bleed it with a gunstons easy bleed remove the condom first and refit it after takes me 5 mins easy job.

if your garage cant do this give them my phone no i will tell them how then take the car away as they dont know what they are doing


andy

[spawn666]

Just literally got off the phone. Master replaced and fluid now leaking out of the bell housing :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

What a total nightmare.

[SirRustalot]

Yeah, pull it out of there and get Andy to do it for you!