Another FBH upgrade, remote control and parking heating mode

[producer]

Hi!

I have 98570B version of the FBH on my car.

I installed cheap version of FBH remote control based on some schematics and using wireless remote control, timer delay relay and toggle relay, temperature switch.

As a foundation I took webasto fitting instruction http://mgroverklub.hu/download/rover75convert.pdf

I managed how to connect it to switch on, switch off. But it doesn't switch on cabin ventilator.

FBH works 30 minutes when the circuit from Pin 4 is disconnected. It is connected, FBH stops to work and white smoke starts to come from the FBH exhaust.

Led is on when the FBH works both auxiliary heating mode and parking mode.

I would be very grateful if someone could help to find the mistakes I made, since I am not professional in electronics. So I need help to make it work with cabin ventilation and Led would light only in parking heating mode, while timer relay is switched on.

http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=42685&d=1417372694

http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=42686&d=1417372724

http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=42687&d=1417372733

Arturs

[Duotone]

Use this diagram to operate your air con panel.

http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/forum/showpost.php?p=1607819&postcount=42

Dave T

[producer]

Thank you Dave!

Will it connect in auxiliary mode, while driving, too? How can I connect it to work only while the timer relay is on? Or there is no difference?

[Duotone]

Thank you Dave!

Will it connect in auxiliary mode, while driving, too? How can I connect it to work only while the timer relay is on? Or there is no difference?

You need to connect the relay [in the circuit diagram] to an 12v output from your circuit board.

Ideally your air con panel should only operate during a warm up period, the timer on your circuit board switching off before you start the car.

There will be a drain on the battery as long as the air con panel is operated without the engine running.

Dave T

[producer]

So, I can connect the relay DPDT to the same output as to PIN1 on FBH?

If I would use the temperature switch, that would close the contacts as the temperature on pipe reaches 40C, where would be the best to connect it in the circuit? In relay's power circuit or control circuit?

[Duotone]

So, I can connect the relay DPDT to the same output as to PIN1 on FBH?

If I would use the temperature switch, that would close the contacts as the temperature on pipe reaches 40C, where would be the best to connect it in the circuit? In relay's power circuit or control circuit?

I have no experience with the circuit board you are using.

All you need to do is, with a test meter find a +12v when your circuit board is energised to switch on the FBH.

One of your circuit board relays should provide +12v.

As yours is a 98570B FBH it should operate when pin 3 is earthed and your circuit board, when operated is providing the earth switch via relay contacts.

Use another relay to switch a +12v to the DPDT to operate the air con panel.

Dave T

[Leigh_EvoIX]

Here's what I did with mine.

So... Off to maplins I went and bought the velleman 2 channel wireless remote system. I've set this up to run the FBH for 30 mins. I've used this to switch the earth on pin 3 of the FBH. When FBH fires up it gives a 12v feed from the FBH pin 4 this is then fed via a 45 degC thermal switch which I mounted on the heater matrix pipes inside a piece of pipe lagging. This 12v activates the DPDT relay as per the diagram duo tone linked to. It appears to then work well and switch on the ATC panel after about 10 mins of the FBH running.

[Dragrad]

Thumbnails enlarged to aid viewers ;)

[producer]

Thumbnails enlarged to aid viewers ;)

Thank you! :}

[producer]

Ok.

Little bit of history of this project.

At the beginning I bought Velleman kit K2579 as a timer relay. But when I tested it, the relay kept contacts closed only for 6 or 7 minutes. To make this available longer I changed the potentiometer from 1 Mohm to 4 Mohms as this was the only one available in the nearest shops.

After changing potentiometer it was able to work only 16 or 17 minutes and it was not enough for this project.

Then I was looking for another cheap solution.

I found Timer delay relay. (DC 12V 1 Channel Power Supply Adjustable Trigger NO Delay Time Relay Module), (FC-31 on PCB). When it arrived, I adjusted it for 30 minutes. But the problem remained - how to switch off the timer, since by pushing the same control button it just restarts counting time. I found solution by using remote control's second relay's Normally closed pins to power Timer delay relay. And by pressing 2nd channel button it stops powering Timer delay relay. After it receives power again, after releasing the button, it doesn't continue to work(contacts are open).

[producer]

Here's what I did with mine.

So... Off to maplins I went and bought the velleman 2 channel wireless remote system. I've set this up to run the FBH for 30 mins. I've used this to switch the earth on pin 3 of the FBH. When FBH fires up it gives a 12v feed from the FBH pin 4 this is then fed via a 45 degC thermal switch which I mounted on the heater matrix pipes inside a piece of pipe lagging. This 12v activates the DPDT relay as per the diagram duo tone linked to. It appears to then work well and switch on the ATC panel after about 10 mins of the FBH running.

Can you, please, write a model of the temperature switch or what specification does it have?

[Avulon]

Can you, please, write a model of the temperature switch or what specification does it have?

Also would like to know the source & part-no/model for the temperature switch please.

TIA.

[Leigh_EvoIX]

Bought from seller called pedgington on eBay.

Item no. 281469708607

I got a normally Open switch which latches when it's triggered at the right temp.

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb143/lthornton2/Stoof/744DDAB2-3EE7-43AB-85B3-79E114BF3DB2.png

eBay info.
KSD 9700 Temperature Switch Thermostat Thermal Protector

Activation temperatures from 40° to 150° Degrees Available

Both Normal Closed (i.e. connection is made until rated temperature at which point it is broken) and Normal Open (i.e. connection is not made until rated temperature is reached) available.

Suitable for both AC and DC use.

Rated Voltages:
DC 12V: 12A
DC 24V: 10A
AC 125V: 8A
AC 250V: 5A

Dimensions:

Plastic 40° to 110°:

Length: 21mm
Width: 8mm
Depth: 4mm
Cable Length: 70mm (except: 100° NC 110mm, 110° NO 200mm)

Metal 115° to 150° (without protective covering):

Length: 20mm
Width: 7.3mm
Depth: 3.6mm
Cable Length: 70mm

Note that for the metal enclosed switches that the metal case is connected to one of the terminals so remember to use the included plastic cover and be very careful if being used with high voltages.

Reset Temperatures are 15°± 5° less than activation temperatures. So, for example, for the 40° ± 5° switches the reset temperature is 25° ± 5°.

[Avulon]

Thanks, I'll look out for one of them, been wanting to automate the morning defrost.

Wouldn't you know it - 'out of stock'. :icon_cry:. I'll search around, I dare say they'll have them back in stock soon enough. :Holly2:

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Found one UK supply here http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/KSD-9700-Temperature-Switch-Thermal-Thermostat-40-Degrees-Normally-Open-for-PC-/171529548085?pt=UK_Computing_Other_Computing_Netwo rking&hash=item27eff53135

[Leigh_EvoIX]

There was multiple options when I got mine. Think I got 40 deg C. 35 or 45 would be fine I'd imagine.

[Leigh_EvoIX]

Also you don't need it to automate the defrost. The DPDT relay does that. The thermal switch just delays the ATC panel switching on.

[Avulon]

Also you don't need it to automate the defrost. The DPDT relay does that. The thermal switch just delays the ATC panel switching on.

Exactly: it's the delay that's important, there's no point running the ATC from FBH start up. Once it get's to 40 then it should be enough to make a difference to the frost, but not be running so long as to flatten the battery.

[Leigh_EvoIX]

Exactly: it's the delay that's important, there's no point running the ATC from FBH start up. Once it get's to 40 then it should be enough to make a difference to the frost, but not be running so long as to flatten the battery.

Mine works amazingly. The mrs has been using the ZT recently and the other mornIng we'd had a proper frost. When she got up for work I also got up early. I made a coffee and watched the windows defrost on the car. She even txt me when she got to work to say how good it was. Hahaha. Think we're both as geeky as each other.

[producer]

Thanks!

It is definitely better solution than the one in the picture I have enclosed.

I agree to the comfort the remote control makes. Even without operating ATC.
My wife has a corporate car, Fiat Punto diesel without such option. It is hard to force myself to go out and warm up the car before she had to go to work.

It is the second morning when I can push the button and after 30 minutes drive kids to school in a warm car.

[theridler]

Excellent - I've been wondering about fitting a temp switch for the last couple of weeks... I've ordered one as per Avulon above... two questions - which wire do I break into to fit this and where do I fit the switch (inside the cabin or in engine bay...)? I suppose I'd fit it in wire from FBH to ATC (which fbh wire? - I THINK its pin 4 of the 6 pin plug...) just behind ATC control panel & then find a heater matrix pipe nearby to strap it to with some pipe lagging tied around it?? Thanks for your help - Regards John
EDIT: looking at post #16 above, I need to break into the wire coming from pin 4 of 6pin connector on FBH? So... to make sure I'm on the right side of any relays fitted it would be best to break into the wire close to FBH and run wires through bulkhead to behind ATC (where my temperature switch will be...)??

[Avulon]

As Duotone posted the basic wiring diagram for using the temperature switch is here:

http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/forum/showpost.php?p=1607819&postcount=42

The temperature switch will connect between the 12v feed from the fbh as in the diagram in post one (pin 4 on the fbh) and the wire marked '12v when fbh is on' in the diagram linked above. You'll need a DPDT relay able to handle enough current for the ATC panel, ( I can't find any automotive ones like this) or two SPDT relays (one for each live feed to the ATC panel).

I'll be doing mine when my switch comes (and time and weather allow).

[theridler]

Do I need to fit this relay? I already have timer & remote setup fitted... and ATC turns on... just that it is on as soon as FBH starts up...

[Avulon]

Do I need to fit this relay? I already have timer & remote setup fitted... and ATC turns on... just that it is on as soon as FBH starts up...
Sounds like you've already got the relay for the ATC in there then. In which case you'll only need to put the temperature switch in line with the supply to the relay coil (or in the coil earth line, it doesn't matter). That will then delay the switch on of the ATC until the switch get's to the switch's trigger temperature. (the switch will have to be secured with good contact to the pipework to pick up the heat).

[theridler]

Excellent - thanks for confirming that... I'll trace back pin 4 wire into passenger compartment then break into it... I notice there are 2 types of temp. switch... one with plastic/ceramic casing & one with metal... I'll see which type turns up...would the metal case need to be protected from earthing? I suppose I could test this with a multimeter anyway! All I was going to do with switch mounting was to cable tie it to heater matrix pipe at back of ATC control unit then tie some pipe lagging around switch...

[Leigh_EvoIX]

this is the relay I used.

http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/10a-dpdt-miniature-relay-12vdc-n08aw

[theridler]

OK... have temperature switch (40deg C...) and about to fit...this breaks into wire from pin 4 on FBH ... correct (which supplies energising power to relay controlling parking heater function)? Is there a pin diagram anywhere for this connector (I take it that this is the 6 pin plug on top of the FBH)?
Thanks for any help... :-)

[theridler]

Now have nice compact T91 remote to operate FBH...lot cheaper new than trying to get an original type... will be fitting temp switch this weekend...

[theridler]

Finally fitted temp switch... got sidetracked had to get faulty pcb sorted....my temp switch seems to cut in afterabout 6 minutes or so... checked air from blower vent by drivers feet and it seemed reasonably warm... so all in alll an easy mod that works well...