ZT V6 (Poor Running) Crankcase Breather / Intake Stripdown

[Delirious]

hi guys , I'm Back On With Trying To Sort Out a problem I Have Had Now For 2 Years With No Success:mad:
Now some of you Know I've been quite Ill Over The Past Year and I've Not Been In a Position To Use The Car Never mind Fix it

Basically The Car Has a Very Low Level Misfire On Bank 1 across all 3 Cylinders, This is Only Seen By a T4 Which Bigruss was Kind Enough To Look at for me at a meet Back When I Had the Car but You Can feel The Misfire At idle and at around 1200rpm,its Underpowered, It Uses Way Too Much Fuel, I Get about 15-20 miles to a tenner, which varies dependant on journeys, but about 150-180 miles to a full tank. I have never managed 200 yet
I Do Not Get Any Kind of Fault Codes or EML
And its never got any better or any worse , its been constant from day 1

Nothing I've Done So Far Has Changed This Problem in anyway
Its had 5 Sets of plugs, coil Packs Changed, All Of The Intake manifold related gaskets and Rubber Seals replaced as we assumed an air leak but no change, Thermostat, Cam belts were Done By Andi Willi The Intake Manifold itself is in good nick no rattles, cleaned it out as well as the throttle you know all the usual suspects but no change
I checked for an Earth That Bigruss suggested and That is sound, engine loom wiring looking for corrosion etc, cant find anything out of place
so I've managed to get one of these Bluetooth readers and using the torque app I've got some o2 sensor reading id like you to look at
I don't know what they mean but I'm hoping one of you Super Humans will know and hopefully point me in the right direction
so here goes, these tested hot on idle only

02 sensor 1 bank 1 ranges from 0.08v to 0.825v(Constantly Changing)
Short Term Fuel Trim Ranges From 1.5%-4.6%

02 sensor 2 Bank 1 ranges from 0.2v to 0.4v (But This is Mainly 0.2)
Its Pretty Static)
Short Term Fuel Trim is -0.79 and this doesn't move at all

02 sensor 1 bank 2 ranges from 0.14v to 0.83v(Constantly Changing)
Short Term Fuel Trim Ranges From -13.29% to 7.6%

Now I've no idea what these What These Should Be So Any Help Would Be super, as I'm at a total loss as to what this problem is
If These Readings are Correct Then Suggestions as to What to look For Next are Very Welcome lol


Thanks Guys:D

[SD1too]

Hi Kev.,

You haven't checked your VIS actuators, power linkage and balance flap then?

Have the crankcase breather pinholes been cleared of carbon (one in each camshaft cover)?

Simon

[Delirious]

hi yes vis motors are a problem, but I was unaware they would cause this problem
and no ive not cleared out crankcase breathers, replaced the pipe work but ive not been inside the cam covers

[SD1too]

hi yes vis motors are a problem ..
Yes, when the balance flap sticks half way (usually accompanied by actuator failure) it seriously affects engine performance and doesn't do much for fuel consumption either because the driver tries to compensate by flexing the right foot. :D

It's also worth removing the power actuator to check that Mr. Previous Owner hasn't ripped out the valve linkage. Another club member has discovered this to his horror.

... and no ive not cleared out crankcase breathers, replaced the pipe work but ive not been inside the cam covers
The time to have done this was when you replaced the inlet manifold gaskets. I'd start with the VIS system and see what you find. As a subscribing member you can borrow a testing box which is easy to operate and indicates a fault (or not) in seconds.

Simon

[Delirious]

stocktake and reebs have tested the car in the past, and the first time both didn't work the seconds time 1 didn't work lol
the guts are still in the manifold and they appear to operate well, but I did have 2 motors working briefly at one point and apart from making it go faster on acceleration it didn't affect the misfire
the breather I didn't even know about so ill have to check them out, the pipes I changed and fitted a brass t piece as the original was broken, i also fitted a catch tank at that time too, but i never knew there was a filter in the cam cover
How Likely is it that these filters could be causing my problem ???
because unless im mistaken that's a complete strip down of everything ive already replaced manifold side or, as the misfire is only on the front bank is it just the front bank one i should be interested in ?

Just to Add the car has done around 45,000 like this its never got any worse not has it got any better during that time
the only thing that has been a constant repair is the catalytic converter, which im now on my 4th as the unburnt fuel is burning them out other than that it runs the same as it did day 1

[SD1too]

... the only thing that has been a constant repair is the catalytic converter, which im now on my 4th as the unburnt fuel is burning them out ...
:eek: Crikey Kev., that's serious. Sorry, when you originally said this:
Basically The Car Has a Very Low Level Misfire On Bank 1 across all 3 Cylinders ...
I thought that "low level" meant insignificant. It's now apparent that you've got a real problem.

At least you've narrowed it down to the left hand bank. I'm afraid that I don't have a quick answer for you. I guess you're going to have to rely on basic fault-finding logic with this one.

You've ruled out the sparking plugs and the ignition coils. A valve timing error is possible on one bank only. I suppsoe you could try a compression gauge on each cylinder to see if that produces a clue.

Regarding my advice on the crankcase breather system, the left-hand bank is easy to check so why not do it. There are two wire mesh filters in the cam cover. They'll be discoloured, but if they're choked with gunge then clean them in a suitable solvent or renew them. The pinhole is between the filter and the smaller diameter tube to the intake system. When replacing the cam cover, observe the torque setting for the screws. There are about sixteen of them, and there's a specified tightening sequence.

If you do decide to go down this route, please let us know how you get on. Good luck.

Simon

[Delirious]

ill have a go with the breathers tomorrow, its deffo worth a look, to be honest the misfire feels and sounds insignificant but it ******s my cat up real quick lol
as goes for coming back, yes I will be letting everyone know the outcome of this problem, cause I suspect theres more than me out there with this problem, ive found a few posts that mirror my problems, all have no conclusion, I hate that
so ill be as informative as I can
thanks for having a read and ill post up my results tomorrow

[Delirious]

Hi just thought id let you know, ive not had chance to get out to fix the car yet, the weathers been terrible and ive had some silly things to sort out like my shed roof flying off lol,so im gonna clear out those filters at the weekend instead and ill report back then��

[Steve42]

must admit never come across a low level misfire .

[Delirious]

yeah i've noticed it doesn't seem to be a common problem, which is typical for me lol, but its gotta be sorted out i cant carry on with it like this no more, i love my car and i've no intentions of getting rid of it, but the costs involved in running it are huge, so much more than it should be, i no longer work due to ill health, the mrs has a part time job in a pre-school and were ticking over financially till i can get myself sorted long term and get back into work, so in the meantime were not really using the car much due to costs
so as you can imagine getting the car 100% is now essential, so every little bit of help i can get is very much appreciated

[Delirious]

Hi Guys Just to Let you Know I Will Be finally Doing The Crankcase Gauzes From Tomorrow along with the clip for the fuel pump and replacing all the fuel rail seals
Would it be of any use to you guys if i took some photos of what im doing and posting them over the next few days as im doing the jobs ??
let me know what you think
cheers kev

[dattrike]

Hi Guys Just to Let you Know I Will Be finally Doing The Crankcase Gauzes From Tomorrow along with the clip for the fuel pump and replacing all the fuel rail seals
Would it be of any use to you guys if i took some photos of what im doing and posting them over the next few days as im doing the jobs ??
let me know what you think
cheers kev

Yes please :D any information like this can be turned into a "How To"
for us who want to but are scared to try. :bowdown:

[Delirious]

ok I'm going to post up everything I'm going to be doing this year, which is quite a bit lol
I'm no writing genius and this isnt a how to, i just thought that i have a lot to strip down and if a bit of an explanation and a few pics, may help someone out who may be doing a completley different job, just to be able to see whats really under that cover lol, so apologies if its not very fluent :DD
Anyway the first job is going to be crankcase breathers and a slight coolant leak from what i believe is the coolant sensor
which is only 6 months old i may add, so here goes :
45358

ok so started stripping down, removed the engine cover to reveal this
45359

bit of tape on the breather pipe so ill get a replacement, removed all breathers and the Airbox, very easy to do just hold down the red clip and pull the pipe, the airbox was just a couple of screws and undo the intake pipe with a screwdriver and pull the pipe and the top of airbox away as one
45360

removed the fuel line and removed the wiring for the throttle, idle and purge valve
disconnected the accelerator cable and the rear support bar for the wiring from the black part of the intake manifold
disconected vis motors(both faulty)will be replacing these with stocktakes fancy all singing all dancing ones at the end of the month
undid an 8mm bolt that secures the pressure test pipe for the fuel rail and removed the 4 bolts securing the Black Manifold
45361
then proceeded to remove the manifold, to be honest it was pretty tight on and did require a lot of pressure to pull off
45362

More to Follow

[Delirious]

Ok so manifold removed
45369

45370

45371
You will notice ive also removed the the front bank wiring, injector wiring and coil packs, coils are held in with a 8mm bolt undo that and pull them out, injector wiring is just plug and play

45372

45373

ok so thats it for today more to follow :D

[Delirious]

Ok mini update, ill post some pics later, i've removed the front bank injectors, only to find one has been broken and pathetically glued back in!!! also a funny glue like substance (im unfamilar with this substance) around all injector seals and to be honest their pretty shot, i'm a little unclear as to why they felt the need to remove these in the first place but they've definatley been bodged back in so i'm on the hunt for another injector to replace the broken one and i'm about to go and strip off the rear bank, ill do a better write up tonight

[carguy143]

You've got some good pictures there which should go a long way to helping other v6 owners.

As for your injector seals, if you're referring to the upper seals that fit in to the fuel rail they're readily available on eBay and it is very easy to trap and damage these seals when refitting the fuel rail.

Rik.

[Delirious]

Thanks, ive already got the seal kit, ive just ordered the injector, ive got manifold seals and gaskets coming from dmgrs so parts wise im now pretty good, or rather will be when they turn up next week lol

[dattrike]

Good pictures, thanks for taking the time to show us :D

[carguy143]

Thanks, ive already got the seal kit, ive just ordered the injector, ive got manifold seals and gaskets coming from dmgrs so parts wise im now pretty good, or rather will be when they turn up next week lol
If you've removed the fuel rail from the injectors I find using a small smearing of engine oil over the seals and the inside surfaces of the fuel rail certainly does help reassembly.

[SD1too]

As for your injector seals, if you're referring to the upper seals that fit in to the fuel rail they're readily available on eBay ..
And Land Rover dealers too, if there's one nearby. :}

Part number is MKD 000 010L

Simon

[Delirious]

yeah i reckon your right mr malcolm, these seals im sure are the cause plus obviously the broken injector
no ht leads on mine, just pencil coils though, when i put the pics up in a min you will see this glueish stuff (technical love it ), plugs have been changed numerous times, and coils all the obvious stuff, so as Sd1 suggested crankcase breathers which i can now confirm ARE blocked, the rocker covers are now in my shed awaiting cleaning and unblocking (Sunday)

[SD1too]

... as Sd1 suggested crankcase breathers which i can now confirm ARE blocked, the rocker covers are now in my shed awaiting cleaning and unblocking (Sunday)
Good plan Kev. When it's all reassembled and you go for a test drive, don't forget to report back on any performance improvements will you? :D

Simon

[Delirious]

yeah will do, im expecting quite a difference to be honest, it was pretty slow if im honest 1.8 ford focus slow lol, anyway im gonna do a bit of a write up on todays events and chuck some pics on again for you guys

[Delirious]

Disconnected the front bank fuel rail from the rear by removing the 2 plates on the left hand side of the rail, they just pulled off, then undid the 2x10mm bolts securing the rail and lifted the fuel rail off the injectors, very little or no resistance which i thought was odd i also found evidence of a fuel leak from the rear bank link pipe which is fine as i have all new seals for the fuel rail

Then carefully pulled each of the fuel injectors out of the manifold, again little or no resistance which i'm pretty sure is wrong, they should be super tight in there

to find this !

45428

45429

the end was badly glued on and just fell apart in my hands
the others has had some sort of sealant over the seals, very varnish looking but were all really badly misshapen and looked like they had been in and out a few times, so again good job i had already got hold of a new seal kit

looking into the holes for the injectors, quite a bit of **** in them and engine oil in the first one

45430

45431

then i removed the 7 bolts that hold on the front bank manifold and removed it to then reveal this

45432

funnily enough not coming from the thermostat but actually coming from the coolant sensor
so ill clean that and seal it, however just to be sure i think im actually going to change the thermostat irrespective of condition while im there

ill post some more on sunday regarding the the rocker cover removal

[carguy143]

That's a lot of glue there! No wonder you've had issues. You may aswell do the stat whilst you're in there as it'll more than likely need doing sooner or later anyway. It's just as certain as me growing older each day!

I'm looking forward to seeing your work on the rocker covers. With 180k on the clocks, I guess mine could do with a good clean!

Rik.

[Delirious]

seriously if mine are anything to go buy then yes yours deffo need doing, ive only done 98000, mind you its not been looked after and looks to have been bodged everywhere, still ****** the previous owners, shes finally going to get evreything needed

[SD1too]

... funnily enough not coming from the thermostat but actually coming from the coolant sensor ...
What you have there Kev is a classic case of a leaking 'O' ring at the base of the thermostat housing and/or at the joint with the straight pipe. It won't be the coolant sensor; my advice is to leave that alone.

Simon

[Delirious]

Good enough for me, ill order a new one to be safe

[Delirious]

Question ! now the pipe work to my oil cooler has been bypassed, is it more likely that the steel pipework is rotten hence the disconnection or more likely the the oil cooler itself is shot ????
i was thinking about replacing the steel pipes which i know are common with some rubber ones so i can reconnect the cooler

[Delirious]

Ok Here We Go Again lol,
As the weather has been pretty British Today, I've spent some time in the shed
now i missed off a bit of the process the other day which as removing the rocker covers off the engine, there is a sequence for undo and tighten, so removed all the bolts and tapped the cover with a mallet and they came free

45491
45492
and now to the rear bank manifold which required stripping down
45493
45494
45495
i Noticed that the injectors were at different heights, the worst being the 3rd one, these also had the gunk round them same as the front bank, so i removed the injectors which again basically fell out

[Delirious]

so time to start cleaning them, used some paraffin and a toothbrush and a blunt knife to remove the oil and hylomar and just general dirt and grime
buffed up with a wire brush and a mini air wire brush and job done
45496
45497
45498
next the rocker covers
45499
45500
used the same to clean, bit of paraffin and a toothbrush
but i also ran a very small drill into the small breather hole on each cover to make sure they had been cleared

[Delirious]

ok this 5 pics a time thing is a pain lol

45501

everything cleaned and ready to be refitted now, so I'm just waiting for some parts to turn up before i can refit
to be honest I'm quite dissapointed in how bodged up all of this was, and id love to know why they felt it necessary to remove all of this, manifolds and injector etc in the past
still in a way I'm glad i found these problems and I'm hoping the car will be much more like it when refitted

[SD1too]

:D Excellent work Kev., especially your cleaned camshaft covers. :bowdown: I'm ashamed to say that I didn't clean mine, but I will next time. Your inlet manifold gaskets looked in good condition too. The elastomer hadn't been breached.
... in a way I'm glad i found these problems and I'm hoping the car will be much more like it when refitted
:iagree:

Simon

[Delirious]

thanks SD1, i hope its all worth it and i'm not boring you all to death, ill be on the car tomorrow cleaning the faces off ready for all this stuff top be refitted, im also checking the engine number prefix too make sure its a 190 in there and its not been swapped out at some point(gut feeling), and then im kinda stuffed till my new parts arrive, im waiting for the fuel injector thermostat kit my gaskets and seals for the manifolds, if i an get the basics back in by the weekend ill be happy

[Stag>75]

Basically The Car Has a Very Low Level Misfire On Bank 1 across all 3 Cylinders, This is Only Seen By a T4 Which Bigruss was Kind Enough To Look at for me at a meet Back When I Had the Car but You Can feel The Misfire At idle and at around 1200rpm,its Underpowered, It Uses Way Too Much Fuel, I Get about 15-20 miles to a tenner, which varies dependant on journeys, but about 150-180 miles to a full tank. I have never managed 200 yet

Just a thought. I see your signature shows you have done the cam belts and I assume that includes the rear ones. Was it misfiring before that? I'm wondering if it's not actually a misfire but a case of timing being out. Perhaps the symptoms would be more severe and as no one else has suggested it then perhaps I'm completely off track but just a thought.

[Delirious]

no your right this was a good point, but all 3 belts and the water pump were done by our very own god of the clutch andy
the misfire was apparent from day 1 however i never noticed it till i got home
the belt change did not affect it, and to be honest neither has anything else i've done over the last 2 years, its been so long now that i'm so in tune with the misfire i can feel nothing else when i'm driving that said i'm pretty sure a broken injector and bodged seals will be the culprit
once i've got this stuff back on ill know, if it is still doing it then i can see me heading up to Doncaster to see Andy to get the timing checked so we can rule that out

[Delirious]

ok was able to get out today and check the engine number prefix

p58 is whats on the block now according to everything i can find this would mean that my engine is not a 190 engine
can someone confirm this please
as you can imagine right now im really not happy at all, im hoping that im wrong

[beinet1]

Hi,

Just want to say that the "gunk" on your injector seals seems to be the same as I found on mine while doing my belts and inlet gaskets:

http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=204919&page=5

[Delirious]

yes i must admit they do,, ive never come across that before, a see through tainted brown varnish type looking sealer or something, i see weve done the same jobs, there must be something in the air this year lol

[Bluemoon Typhoon]

p58 is whats on the block now according to everything i can find this would mean that my engine is not a 190 engine
can someone confirm this please
as you can imagine right now im really not happy at all, im hoping that im wrong

Kev I have a 54 plate project 190 ZT-T. That has a P58 2500cc engine, so don't think that is a problem.

It is the head/cams that give the 190 it's extra oomph so I believe.

[Delirious]

thats good to hear, the engine prefix details are pretty vague to be honest thanks for letting me know

[Delirious]

Hi Guys, so my remaining parts have turned up today, so thanks goes to Mat at DMGRS for sending them out so quickly
I Have Been Working on it Today and i'm About Halfway through refitting everything
so ill finish it off tomorrow weather permitting and ill carry on my write up tomorrow night

[Greeners]

Hi Guys, so my remaining parts have turned up today, so thanks goes to Mat at DMGRS for sending them out so quickly
I Have Been Working on it Today and i'm About Halfway through refitting everything
so ill finish it off tomorrow weather permitting and ill carry on my write up tomorrow night

Whats wrong with carrying on now, my neighbour is with his drilling and banging :duh::duh:

[Delirious]

oh no my days of standing out in the dark freezing repairing cars is long gone lol

[stocktake]

Your motors should arrive Monday Kev ;)

[Delirious]

Really thats sweeet, I wasnt expecting them for a while cheers dave

[bl52krz]

I think you are carrying out a good job Kevin, and I think that you have found the cause of the misfire with the state of the injectors. Will be interesting to hear what the results are when you have finished.

[Anon3]

Doctor, I'm finding this one intruiging. Thanks for the pics, they're always useful :}

Can you confirm that when you've changed the plugs, they've been filthy black as you'd expect?

I know you said you've burnt Cats out but I find it puzzling that you don't get an EML or even a code with 3 misfires? :shrug:
It just strikes me the Lambda should definitely be picking that sort of mixture up.

And am just checking it's major over-fuelling and not a pinhole fuel leak somewhere (although you'd expect to smell the petrol, tbh).

[Delirious]

Ok ill try to answer, firstly if im honest the plugs were ok, a slight bit of black but nothing bad, but these were changed 6 months ago and if im honest its only done about 800 miles on them so this would be why,......normally they are seriously black and sooty, I usually change them every 6 months because of this
the cats are due to unburntfuel and no I dont get an eml, well not untill the cat has had it, then I get a cat code, change the cat and jobs a goodun untill it goes again
the t4 picks up the misfire and counts them up,(t4 ops will know what im on about lol) which is constant throughout the rev range, the best way to describe it is it runs a little rough at idle and again at about 1100, however the t4 displays constant misfires
and as goes for a fuel leak, there was 1 small leak on the fuel rail interconnecting pipe which i found on the strip down and this has now been repaired

Anyway I have now completed the jobs and ill do a write up and finish this tomorrow and let you guys know the results

[Anon3]

I'm confused even more now :shrug:

You say the plugs aren't bad, but given your chronic fuel consumption and the fact that you're burning cats out, I'd suggest they ought to be totally black or even wet because the fuel can't be burnt off, after just a few miles.

Physics suggests to me that there's something else wrong.

You've replaced the electricals loads of times.
To me this is a waste of money, as plugs are super reliable these days, although you might get the odd failure.
It's the same with leads and coils etc.

And as for leaky injectors, I can't see them causing what seems like over fuelling either. My thinking is that you might cause a lean mixture because of air being sucked in, resulting in you having to use more throttle to compensate.
But that still shouldn't lead to burning cats out, imo.

Perhaps people who know the cars better can advise/correct me here?

Can I ask what is making you say you're burning the cats out, the EML apart?

Sorry if any of this sounds critical; it's really not meant to be.
But things are not adding up and you have to ask all the questions to try and get an answer :}

[Anon3]

Doctor, I forgot.

I've tried the (free/lite version) Torque app with a cheap reader and when it came to anything more than the very basic OBD2 stuff, I quite frankly didn't trust it at all.
I'm not saying it's automatically wrong, but it threw out stuff that wasn't consistent, imo.

[Delirious]

lol, thats easy to answer lol, their usually it begins rattling then they get broken up badly or end up empty, plus bear in mind once ive replaced it cat problem related codes are gone, till next time.....
So thats self explanitory but its obviously an end result not a cause
Personally I belive its a combination of a lot of engine issues and I feel sure im going to end up doing much much more to eventually get this fixed properly, the stuff here that im playing witn atm is just the begining and im pretty sure the engine is incorectly timed too but thats for another day
Oh and as goes for the torque app, I have the paid for version and ive used it a lot recently and if im honest I cant really see a problem, its not 100% but it gives you a fair idea as to what is going on and for what it cost im not complaining
but the car is now back together again and it will be on the t4 at the thryberg meet on the 21st (asuming someone is there with one lol) where I can confirm things better and get a more up to date version of events

[Anon3]

lol, thats easy to answer lol, their usually it begins rattling then they get broken up badly or end up empty, plus bear in mind once ive replaced it cat problem related codes are gone, till next time.....
So thats self explanitory but its obviously an end result not a cause
Personally I belive its a combination of a lot of engine issues and I feel sure im going to end up doing much much more to eventually get this fixed properly, the stuff here that im playing witn atm is just the begining and im pretty sure the engine is incorectly timed too but thats for another day

This makes more sense, although I wouldn't dare doubt anyone's work from what I've read here.
But, even then, the ECU should be picking this up and throwing more than low level misfires, imo.

Whatever, it seems obvious that there's something majorly wrong and there's no way breathers etc will be causing this, imo.

[Delirious]

ello, right here's the next part

ok so now to remove the thermostat
remove the 2 clips holding the left hand pipe and take off the 3 pipes on the right of the thermostat housing
45809
then remove the securing bolt
45810
then pull out the thermostat housing and the rear pipe
45811
as you can see SD1 was correct and the housing was leaking at the bottom seal
45812
then clean the area ready for fitting of the new one which is just reversal of removal
i used a little clean engine oil on all of the rubber seals to aid fitting
45813

[Delirious]

ok next job are the gauzes which were pretty simple
it was just a case of pushing them into their place in the rocker cover
and cleaned the faces on the cylinder head and rocker covers
45814
45815
then i used sealant on the faces ready for re-fitting
new gasket used
45816
and then refitted and re torqued the bolts down in the correct order
45817
45818
job done :}

[Delirious]

ok next was the injectors
the seal kit i bought had each seal labelled A. being the top B the center and C the bottom
45820
so really easy to set up, lubricated each seal with a little clean engine oil and pushed the injector into place in the manifold

then cleaned both the faces on the cylinder heads for the manifolds to be fitted and again used some sealant on those faces
45821
45822

fitted a new gasket
45823

And then bolted the manifolds into place
45824
all good :D

[Delirious]

Next was the Fuel Rail

The top of each injector was lubricated with a little engine oil
and the rail pushed into place
the end cap seal was replaced and the interconnecting pipe seal was also replaced, again a little engine oil to lubricate and they pushed home
45825
45826
then the clip was fitted, this was a little tricky as the end cap didnt want to fit fully in at first, but it went in the end
then i fitted the front bank fuel rail the same way
45827
tightened the 4 bolts up and checked the fitting
at this point i thought id reconnect the fuel pipe and check for leaks
45828
fortunatly for me all good :}

[Delirious]

next was reconnecting the electronics
fitted the cam sensor back onto the front bank cylinder head
45829
and laid out the main front bank wiring loom, reconnecting the crank sensor
reconnected the injector wiring and plugged the alternator back in

45830
45830

and the front bank coil packs
45831
and then the rear injector wiring and coil packs
45832
and this is the mystery earth tag that you will see mentioned lots of times on this site as it is usually accidentally missed when refitting
45833

[Delirious]

next is the black manifold
firstly fitted the 3 green seals onto the rear manifold
45836
then fitted the black seals into the black manifold
45834
45835
then its just a case of lowering the black manifold onto the metal ones and tightening
45837
then re-attach all the throttle wiring and breather pipes
45838

[Delirious]

just a case of reattaching the last few bits
so front water pipes to the radiator
45839
the coolant bottle
45841
the airbox
45840
and the breather pipework
45843
45844
top up the coolant and bleed it through using the bleed screw on the lower coolant pipe
and job done :D

[Delirious]

45845
all back in

so what happened then, well it started straight away no issues
coolant is no longer leaking and the engine is running much smoother

i have now also fitted some of Dave's sexy new VIS motors

Now the Car does run Much Much Much Better, its a lot smoother and was a lot more powerful, once the VIS motors went on it became even more powerful, however its still nowhere near 190bhp i may be cracking around 150 now instead of about 100ish before all of this

but.....
the misfire is still present and no different
So again not cured the problem i wanted, but cured loads of others

I'm Pretty Sure This Is Going To Be The Front Bank Timing
so that is next for me
i'm coming to the Thryberg meet o the 21st and ill get one of you nice chaps to confirm that the misfire is still happening like before
and its not just a bit of rough running now so T4 Needed Next
and then i'm not sure, ill have to get the timing checked

But Other Than That, Its Much Better
So that's it For now, i'm going to do the clip on the fuel filter next and the airbag wiring under the seats over the next week or so so ill post those on here too once i've done them

thanks for reading and commenting and i hope its been of some use

[Salad-Dodger]

Hi Doc. Many thanks for all that very useful information.
I've just got my 190 and I'm just about to go through all of the same and its really useful to have the pics and tech on the whole opp.
Like you, I'm going for the timing when I change the belts. Don't forget that the timing on the 190 is not the same as the other V6s. Apparently the tools are different.
I think you have a small ignition problem from where I'm sitting but the T4 session will tell it all. Good luck with it. Steve

[minimutly]

Pity you didn't check out the cam timing when you had the covers off, you could at least have compared front/back cylinders.
Certainly sounds like you have an issue.

[Delirious]

Naaa, ill do most stuff myself but the timing on this is deffo going to be done by someone else, apparently bigruss suggested that quite a few were incorrectly set at the factory, when I had my belts done the pullys would have been locked and the belts replaced, unfortunately we didnt check if it was correct, typical I got one of the few that was wrong, but im pretty convinced its timing as its a front bank only problem

[Delirious]

hi so quick update, ive been to the thryberg meet today and bigruss very kindly put my car on the t4
happily all the work that ive completed was not in vain as the misfire no longer shows on the t4 so problem fixed and im over the moon
im not sure exactly whats fixed it, but something did
anyway this has now spured me on to now complete the jobs on the car, so next will be the paper fuel filter seals and clip so stay tuned for that
thanks guys for all your support and ideas

[Arctic]

Hi Kev.
I have followed this with interest glad to hear you finally got it sorted and thank you for sharing the photo tutorial with us most appreciated Arctic :bowdown:

[Arctic]

Hi Kev.
I have replied to your PM hopefully I will hear from you before I go to bed, or in the morning I will check my PM and emails cheers Arctic.;)

[e30325itourer]

Why is this not in the how to section? It took me ages to search back and find it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Delirious]

hey guys

i thought i would update this thread (as i hate it when people dont come back to the forum and tell you what the fault is once they have it fixed) concerning the original fault which was the misfire and cat destruction, now it cleared after all that work was done according to the T4... so all good however the burning of cats did not change and i'm now on my 6th and its also currently rattling and im back with the cat code so no change there lol, the physical misfire rumble/feeling always remained and never improved
Until.................
i managed to get a hold of the proper engine timing tool kit with the correct 190 plates a couple of months ago
so we set out to check it and found that only the one camshaft was in the correct position
so we put that right and set it up exactly how it should be
and guess what............... the rumble the misfire etc etc has finally gone
and oh my does it shift now, massive improvement across the board in acceleration and power and i no longer feel like im sitting in a vibrating diesel motor lol
so yes i found problems but the main one was the Engine Timing being very wrong, possibly from the factory as im certainly not the first with that problem, now for those of you keen eyed who will see i had the belts changed this was not set incorrectly by Andy :bowdown:, as he cloned what was there originally so i want to stress that its NOT something he has done wrong, it was incorrect before hand
so there you have it, problem is fixed and i can now buy a cat and hopefully still have it 12 months from now lol
i hope it may help some of you out who may be scratching your heads over something similar
cheers kev

[kaiser]

It would not be the first time somebody has "cloned" the timing, only to get it wrong. So don't take anything for granted, check the timing marks.
Glad you got to the problem, eventually.

[SD1too]

... i hate it when people dont come back to the forum and tell you what the fault is once they have it fixed ...
i managed to get a hold of the proper engine timing tool kit with the correct 190 plates .... and found that only the one camshaft was in the correct position
...
Thanks for letting us know Kev. I'm rather pleased to be reminded that this possibility had crossed my mind four years ago!
A valve timing error is possible on one bank only.

Also:
... i had the belts changed this was not set incorrectly by Andy ... as he cloned what was there originally ...
This shows how important it is to use the special service tools. Whoever was there before Andy must have messed it up. I find it hard to believe that the engine was incorrectly built at the factory. Had Andy used the service tools the error would have been discovered at the belt change. So the moral is: don't copy what you find, do the job once and do it properly!

Simon :}