overheated

[Ps3000]

The car has been getting progressively colder (heater lukewarm) today and then I got the overheat warning in ipk. Opened the bonnet and there is pink coolant and steam everywhere. I have summoned the RAC - I assume it's best not to limp any further, even with a coolant refill?
when I get home is thermostat favourite? Or the cap?

[klarzy]

The car has been getting progressively colder (heater lukewarm) today and then I got the overheat warning in ipk. Opened the bonnet and there is pink coolant and steam everywhere. I have summoned the RAC - I assume it's best not to limp any further, even with a coolant refill?
when I get home is thermostat favourite? Or the cap?

heater may have been getting cooler due to insufficient coolant or no pumping... could be expensive if she's blown a gasket...

at least coolant is everywhere so I can only assume she burst outward....

may have blown a hose off...

[Ps3000]

Mine's a V6 - I thought hgf was rare

[SD1too]

Mine's a V6 - I thought hgf was rare
It is John. Besides, your description indicates either a coolant leak or your radiator fan has stopped working completely. Start by doing the 'demist' test to check the fan's slow speed.

Simon

[Ps3000]

Back home now - thanks RAC. As it's snowing I didn't spend too much time checking, but I can't see any hoses blown off, the water seems to have been forced out of the cap.

I checked the level on Sunday and it was fine, although I did have a very slight loss prior to that. I guess water pump failure is a possibility.....

[Ps3000]

It is John. Besides, your description indicates either a coolant leak or your radiator fan has stopped working completely. Start by doing the 'demist' test to check the fan's slow speed.

Simon

Thanks - The fan is working (on high speed at least) - when I pulled over and switched off, it was still running full tilt.

[SD1too]

I guess water pump failure is a possibility.....
Err .... no. It won't be that.
The fan is working (on high speed at least) - when I pulled over and switched off, it was still running full tilt.
That means that the engine is getting much too hot. Do the demist test in the morning, after starting the engine from cold, and let us know the result.

Simon

[Ps3000]

Thanks Simon, much appreciated, I will do it.

[Doc Evil]

Mine's a V6 - I thought hgf was rare

Hi HGF is rare for the reasons the 1.8's fail but they can still be damaged by overheating
Your best advice is to follow Simon's advice he will put you on the right track but make sure you fill and bleed the system exactly how MGR recommend

Doc

[Ps3000]

OK did the check as out lined on here - I have no slow speed fan which I assume is due to resistor failure. I know the fast speed works.

I am planning to refill/bleed but clearly something's not right.

[Ps3000]

OK, refilled following steps -


Secondly, with a KV6 you*must*follow the MGR procedure for refilling as follows:
1. Apply Loctite 242 to first three threads of cylinder block drain plug. Tighten to 20 Nm.[I](N/A)
2. Remove bleed screw from radiator bottom hose.
3. Remove bolt securing expansion tank and raise as high as possible (approx. 125 mm).
4. Fill cooling system keeping level at expansion tank neck until a steady stream of coolant is emitted from bleed screw hole. Fit and tighten bleed screw.
5. Continue to fill expansion tank until level reaches neck and remains static. Refit tank to body, tightening bolt to 5 Nm.
6. Press 'Econ' button to switch air conditioning off [this is to prevent the radiator fan from running continuously].
7. With expansion tank cap off run engine at 1,500 - 2,500 rpm, filling as necessary to keep coolant level just below expansion tank neck. When level starts to rise, fit cap.
8. Continue running engine at same speed until the radiator fan starts, then reduce to idle until it stops.

I get to setp 7 (run with cap off) but as soon as I start the engine, the level in the tank rises up into the filler neck - if I left It, I guess it would start pumping it out of the top.

Soooo it looks like I have pressure - either from engine or because thermostat is jammed shut - what's the next step? Thermostat change? - or do I just bang the cap on and carry on?

EDIT - I did carry on - results below -

[Ps3000]

OK, ran it up to 102 - even the high speed fan remained off, although when I selected demist the high speed fan cycled.

There are clouds of steam - it's hard to see, but I suspect they are coming from the radiator - cannot see any leaks from elsewhere.

[T-Cut]

The high speed fan needs more than 102C to trip for engine cooling. The slow speed should trip at 100C. Certainly the resistor has blown so that needs replacing with the uprated type (Get one from forum traders, jules, eBay, etc). But even at 102C, without the slow fan, there shouldn't be any coolant/steam release. There's a leak somewhere. Maybe the pressure cap seals should be replaced. Maybe a hose has split. It's a matter of systematic checks on every part of the coolant circuit. Look especially at the thermostat housing under the inlet manifold.

TC

[Ps3000]

Thanks T-cut - I have looked all over -

- No sign of steam/leaks from the Thermostat housing area (although not the easiest to see)
- Can't see anything coming from the hoses.
- I don't think it's the cap - the steam doesn't appear to be coming from there.


It looks as if it's the rad - it's as if the fan was blowing through from the front (when the fan's off) - steam seems to be coming out "through" the rad if you see what I mean.

Thing is, If I'm taking the front off (haven't decided whether to get a garage to do it yet) I should do the resistor too - wondering if there's anything else I should do "While I'm in there"?

Also definitive way to test rad would be good :)

[SD1too]

... If I'm taking the front off (haven't decided whether to get a garage to do it yet) I should do the resistor too ...
My advice would be to do it yourself. Taking off the front bumper is not as daunting as it sounds. Yes, you definitely need a new 'gold' resistor which club trader Jules sells. I cannot imagine any garage soldering in a new resistor. They will want to sell you a completely new fan assembly which is unnecessary.

Also definitive way to test rad would be good :)
When the engine is cold and the steam has dispersed, you should be able to see traces of antifreeze residue if it's leaking.

Simon

[suffolk boy]

also worth checking the steel coolant pipes right at the front of the engine at the bottom of the radiator these are prone to rusting .and therefore leaking.rimmers have replacments in stainless steel .or just steel which is slightly cheaper

[Ps3000]

My advice would be to do it yourself. Taking off the front bumper is not as daunting as it sounds. Yes, you definitely need a new 'gold' resistor which club trader Jules sells. I cannot imagine any garage soldering in a new resistor. They will want to sell you a completely new fan assembly which is unnecessary.


When the engine is cold and the steam has dispersed, you should be able to see traces of antifreeze residue if it's leaking.

Simon

Thanks - if what I suspect is true, then the leak is at the front of the rad and is therefore hidden by the aircon condenser.

I don't have a nearby specialist, although I do have a local garage who would almost certainly do the resistor - they do a lot of electronics and tuning mods. I'd like to do my myself for personal satisfaction as much as anything though. My only doubt is that I have a habit of making anything I touch worse (and that's despite 30+ years tinkering and the fact that I do it for fun sometimes).

Thanks to everyone who's posted, I do appreciate it.

[Ps3000]

I left the car to cool down. Upon checking coolant level, it was about right (it had lost a little). Started up again and had a really good look and am now 90% sure it's the rad that is leaking, but only when up to normal temp - up to that point everything's normal - except the prior issue I was already having with not much heat when stationary.

I've booked a hire car for tomorrow for 4 days, so now need to obtain parts - I am thinking those steel coolant pipes could do with changing whilst I'm at it, and maybe the plastic T piece just in case.

I need a gold resistor and a radiator, too.

[SD1too]

I need a gold resistor and a radiator, too.
Do these two first John, and see how you get on. Don't take on too much all at once; it could lead to confusion and difficulty diagnosing the problem.

Simon

[Ps3000]

I've ordered the stainless pipes from Rimmers - they are a lot cheaper than when I last looked.

Ordered a gold resistor and Thermostat housing kit from DMGRS (not planning on fitting the Thermostat kit but thought I should keep one handy.

Just need to source a rad and a new filler cap now. ECP has rads for £57. I will try my local factor though as I can walk there.

Because I still need to get around (and ex has banned my daughter from my 1968 AMC convertible) I have hired a Fiesta for 4 days, too.

[Ps3000]

Do these two first John, and see how you get on. Don't take on too much all at once; it could lead to confusion and difficulty diagnosing the problem.

Simon

Thanks Simon, will do.

I strongly suspect that just doing these two will get me back to where I was - heater not that great, cold air on tickover, but no overheating dramas.

From all I've read I reckon my oil cooler's blocked.

Let's see. The high speed fan did cut in at about 106 on the IPK.

[Ps3000]

I found this thread which appears to describe both the things I'm seeing -

http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=170180

Unfortunately, there's no resolution to it posted.

[SD1too]

... heater not that great ...
That's caused either by air in the cooling system or a blocked heater matrix. It shouldn't be related to the radiator or fan resistor.
... cold air on tickover ...
That suggests that the system isn't pressurising properly, which is to be expected if you're right about the radiator leaking.
From all I've read I reckon my oil cooler's blocked.
That would cause rapid overheating. The usual cause of a blocked oil cooler is Mr. Previous Owner adding that dreadful stuff K-seal. :devil:
The high speed fan did cut in at about 106 on the IPK.
Are you absolutely sure that you have a fan resistor? On that system the speed doesn't change at 106°, but on the 3 speed system (no resistor) the medium speed is triggered at that temperature. Can you check John by peering in through your radiator grille?

Simon

[Ps3000]

Are you absolutely sure that you have a fan resistor? On that system the speed doesn't change at 106°, but on the 3 speed system (no resistor) the medium speed is triggered at that temperature. Can you check John by peering in through your radiator grille?

Simon

Hi Simon, Yes I'm sure - I hadn't bothered to look before, but as I was peering through the grill to confirm fan (not) working, I noticed a silver resistor. As for the other stuff, you are 100% right - I shouldn't be jumping to conclusions about the oil cooler based on zero experience and idle googling. Thanks again. Collecting the Rad tomorrow - nice to have a Motor Factor I can walk to.

I should have been a bit clearer about the temp - I noticed the fan running and then looked at the IPK - that showed 106, but I can't guarantee precisely when the fan kicked in.

Edited to add - No idea if K-seal or similar has featured in my car's history of course - doubt it from last owner, no idea prior to that.

[SD1too]

OK John, the 2 speed fan with resistor operates as follows:

Slow speed (resistor in circuit): on at 100°, off at 96°.
Fast speed (resistor out of circuit): on at 112°, off at 106°

Simon

[Ps3000]

OK folks I need a pep talk and a bit of advice please. Just spent the first hour and a half cursing and making zero progress - I can't get the screws out of the bottom edge of the bumper.


I dosed them liberally with plus gas before starting

They are made of cheese so needless to say the insides disintegrated as soon as they were subjected to any turning force.

I can't get molegrips to stay on, I can't drill them (suddenly they aren't cheese!) and I can't grind them off with my air grinder. My electric angle grinder disintegrated when I tried to change to disc.

Not having much luck so would appreciate any tips on getting these infernal things off.

[Greeners]

DON'T undo the bib screws, undo the under tray fastners, and remove the two corner panels

[Ps3000]

DON'T undo the bib screws, undo the under tray fastners, and remove the two corner panels

DUH! Thanks - I misread the guide I was following! Undertray fasteners should be easier as there's only one in there.

EDIT - Thanks a million Greeners - got the blighter off now thanks to you - many thanks.

[Ps3000]

I hardly dare post this (don't wish to tempt fate), but after about 8-10 total hours spent over the last 4 days, it's all back together with the stainless pipes from Rimmers fitted and a new radiator and gold fan resistor.

Various fasteners didn't want to give up but I beat them into submission eventually. The replacement rad had holes that were too small for the header tank so I had to ream those out a bit. During the refilling process (which took blinking ages!) I managed to swipe the plastic bleed screw with a cleaning rag and it dropped down into the fan assembly. It resisted all attempts to fish it with various wire loops etc - so the bumper had to come off again.

I've only been out for a quick test drive, but so far (touch wood, everything crossed) it seems OK - no overheating and no clouds of steam from under the bonnet.

Just wanted to thank everyone for their input and help. I will keep an eye on the coolant levels over the next few days. It's too soon to tell if the heater's any better - but it's certainly no worse.

EDIT - Thumbs up to DMGRS and Rimmers for having the stuff I needed and getting it here quickly, too.

[marinabrian]

If I had one of these kicking about, there is no way I'd be hiring a Fiesta :eek:

http://assets.hemmings.com/story_image/132214-500-0.jpg?rev=1


Brian :drool4:

P.S. glad you got the 190 sorted ;)

[SD1too]

... it seems OK - no overheating and no clouds of steam from under the bonnet ... Just wanted to thank everyone for their input and help.
Don't mention it John. Well done you for getting stuck in and fixing it yourself. That's what we like on this forum. :ladysman:

Simon

[Ps3000]

If I had one of these kicking about, there is no way I'd be hiring a Fiesta :eek:

http://assets.hemmings.com/story_image/132214-500-0.jpg?rev=1


Brian :drool4:

P.S. glad you got the 190 sorted ;)

Thanks Brian -

:-)

My main reason for going anywhere in the car is to take my daughter to school (sadly she doesn't live with me any more), but her Mum has banned her from the AMC. It had to live outside whilst I did the 190 - or maybe I'm just a bit soft -

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7560/16133651390_45f00a6ac1.jpg

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7554/16133522648_01ffcac8e5.jpg

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7541/15698650114_e7882f359a.jpg

It did get cold though -

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8677/16133652690_b8f3090a4f.jpg

[Doc Evil]

I hardly dare post this (don't wish to tempt fate), but after about 8-10 total hours spent over the last 4 days, it's all back together with the stainless pipes from Rimmers fitted and a new radiator and gold fan resistor.

Various fasteners didn't want to give up but I beat them into submission eventually. The replacement rad had holes that were too small for the header tank so I had to ream those out a bit. During the refilling process (which took blinking ages!) I managed to swipe the plastic bleed screw with a cleaning rag and it dropped down into the fan assembly. It resisted all attempts to fish it with various wire loops etc - so the bumper had to come off again.

I've only been out for a quick test drive, but so far (touch wood, everything crossed) it seems OK - no overheating and no clouds of steam from under the bonnet.

Just wanted to thank everyone for their input and help. I will keep an eye on the coolant levels over the next few days. It's too soon to tell if the heater's any better - but it's certainly no worse.

EDIT - Thumbs up to DMGRS and Rimmers for having the stuff I needed and getting it here quickly, too.
Well done mate, it gives you a warm fuzzy feeling when you fix things your self and think how much you saved on garage misdiagnosis this is how cars get scrapped as the garage want more money than the car is worth to replace head gaskets that don't even need doing
well done
Doc