rover 75 tourer 2.Ltr CDi clutch problem

[truehoncho]

Hi All,

after replacing my clutch (twice) along with the slave and master cylinder the pedal needs pulling up everytime and if I don't pull it up my clutch pedal stays on the floor and I can't change gear.

I have bled it thoroughly and ALL the parts are new. Is there anything I am missing? Its not using fluid and I have done 5k miles in it now (I do about 1200 a week) and it just won't come right. It feels like there's no fluid in it but there is and when I bleed it, it flows with no air bubbles. Any suggestions?

thanks

[FrenchMike]

Hi All,

after replacing my clutch (twice) along with the slave and master cylinder the pedal needs pulling up everytime and if I don't pull it up my clutch pedal stays on the floor and I can't change gear.

I have bled it thoroughly and ALL the parts are new. Is there anything I am missing? Its not using fluid and I have done 5k miles in it now (I do about 1200 a week) and it just won't come right. It feels like there's no fluid in it but there is and when I bleed it, it flows with no air bubbles. Any suggestions?

thanks

Hi, welcome to the club ;sure ,you get some micro leak somewhere.

The first OEM parts where prefilled and checked ,so no problem;now it' s another story .

You can put the circuit under pressure

45989

And check these critical points

45990

Good luck

Mike

[truehoncho]

thanks.

i will try this, (except the slave!!!!). would i not be noticing some fluid loss though? It's not a subtle feel on the pedal. It just goes altogether and then when you lift it up it works fine again. This is not intermitent it is with every push on the pedal.

thanks very much for the diagram. it looks useful

[FrenchMike]

In my case,i got 3 points

-the jonction copper/tazu and the quickfit union not tighten enough .

And last but not least ,bleed nipple (not really solved so far)

[Heddy]

Is there not a return spring on a clutch pedal? please excuse my lack of knowledge:}

[FrenchMike]

Is there not a return spring on a clutch pedal? please excuse my lack of knowledge:}

No,they are the spring blades of the diaphram which push back the pedal via
the hydraulic fluid (if no leak of course :duh:)

[Heddy]

No,they are the spring blades of the diaphram which push back the pedal via
the hydraulic fluid (if no leak of course :duh:)

Ah, thank you, maybe getting close to the answer:}

[Mike Noc]

Is there not a return spring on a clutch pedal? please excuse my lack of knowledge:}

There is a pedal spring Heddy, but as Mike says the pedal is pushed back up by hydraulic force.

Looking at it the pedal spring just prevents the weight of the pedal from resting on the slave cylinder rod when the clutch isn't being used.

[truehoncho]

Disaster,

clutch just failed altogether 400 miles from home.

There is no fluid loss and reservoir is full. Pedal just goes to the floor with hardly any pressure. If i pump it makes a squishing sound but no pressure. I am assuming its the master cylinder but before I spend more money i would really appreciate some opinions.

[danbax]

Disaster,

clutch just failed altogether 400 miles from home.

There is no fluid loss and reservoir is full. Pedal just goes to the floor with hardly any pressure. If i pump it makes a squishing sound but no pressure. I am assuming its the master cylinder but before I spend more money i would really appreciate some opinions.
#not sure but i have this problem
you gotta pump it then bleed it and do it again and again(2man job) you deffo have leak squish noise is air in fluid trying to pressurise in the master
#maybe can get you going for while

[truehoncho]

Thanks Danbax,

i am going to drive the car home tomorrow night after all the traffic has gone. It is 380 motorway miles so if I get no traffic I will be fine, it can be driven without the clutch just to get me home but I may have a go at bleeding it first as well.

There is definately no leeking fluid anywhere so I can only assume its the piston seals i teh master cylinder. I have ordered one of ebay which should be there when I get home Saturday ready to be put on. It isn't much of a job.

This clutch was done under waranty 18 months ago (£600) and since then the slave has gone twice and now the slave cylinder. I am beginning to think that there is another issue somewhere.

[truehoncho]

well that's the new master cylinder fitted and seems to be doing the job. thanks for all the responses.

[FrenchMike]

If you got no fluid lost ,it could be the same as i had :

http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=192663

Mike

[Mike Noc]

And last but not least ,bleed nipple (not really solved so far)

Think I may have the same problem with the Borg and Beck slave on the Freelander Mike.

Will have a look this week. Have you tried anything else yet?

[truehoncho]

It certainly was those symptoms Mike. When I removed the master cylinder I pumped te plunger which just pumpmed air into the resevoir. Oh well, lets hope the new one lasts a few months at least:}

[FrenchMike]

Think I may have the same problem with the Borg and Beck slave on the Freelander Mike.

Will have a look this week. Have you tried anything else yet?

Sorry for you Mike,

My last and ultimate try in situ:

removed 0.5 millimetre from the bottom with a normal 6mm drill (ring limit added)
And deposit of a big drop of tin on the conical end of the screw ...

Fingers crossed :duh:

Mike

[Mike Noc]

Good luck with it. I haven't had a chance to look at mine yet, but the biting point is near the bottom so I'll need to soon. :getmecoat:

[FrenchMike]

Good luck with it. I haven't had a chance to look at mine yet, but the biting point is near the bottom so I'll need to soon. :getmecoat:

Biting point near the bottom ;effectively it's THE symptom :duh:

You'll tel us ...

[Mike Noc]

Yes I'll keep you updated.

[Mike Noc]

Quick update: Bled the clutch system and there was a bit of air in it but the level was OK and no leakage at the bleed nipple.

Will see how it goes.

[FrenchMike]

Mike,

Today,after 20 miles ,nearly impossible to pass first gear .:duh:

Happily ,being aware of the risk ,i carry the two spanners with me ..

Bleed nipple dry but I have got a slight shoo showing some air have enterered into the system....

But By Where ?:shrug:

Most annoying for if i maintain Under pressure one day or two ,all stay normal !!

BTW, what master have you now ?

Mike

[Mike Noc]

That doesn't sound good Mike. Had you lost any fluid?

For the first time I bought a new master cylinder for the Freelander. They are a different design to the Rover ones, and far easier to change as a result because there are no bolts - they just twist lock a quarter turn into place through the bulkhead.

[FrenchMike]

That doesn't sound good Mike. Had you lost any fluid?

For the first time I bought a new master cylinder for the Freelander. They are a different design to the Rover ones, and far easier to change as a result because there are no bolts - they just twist lock a quarter turn into place through the bulkhead.

No Mike,"Unfortunately" no significant loss .
As you know the slave is a B&B and the master a Tazu Mark1.

I don't understand how air can enter the circuit ,how a depression is possible ??

I'll re check the quick fit connector

Mike

[Mike Noc]

Strange indeed that air is getting in but fluid isn't leaking out. :shrug:

Do you still have the original master cylinder? If so might be worth putting it back in to narrow down where the air is entering the circuit?

[FrenchMike]

Strange indeed that air is getting in but fluid isn't leaking out. :shrug:

Do you still have the original master cylinder? If so might be worth putting it back in to narrow down where the air is entering the circuit?

Yes ,exactly what i project to do ;i have kept the original for i discovered
that the cause was the valve dirty ,only :duh:

[Mike Noc]

Keep us posted Mike, it will be interesting to see where the air is coming from.

I've yet to buy a new master cylinder for my 75. Over the years I've had two used ones and after cleaning them up and swapping the seals around got a good working one.

Hopefully the new Tazu slave cylinder, when it becomes available, will be more reliable and last longer than the current offerings, and if it does they will be on to a winner.










.

[FrenchMike]

Keep us posted Mike, it will be interesting to see where the air is coming from.

I've yet to buy a new master cylinder for my 75. Over the years I've had two used ones and after cleaning them up and swapping the seals around got a good working one.

Hopefully the new Tazu slave cylinder, when it becomes available, will be more reliable and last longer than the current offerings, and if it does they will be on to a winner.










.

The only important thing is to know if the slave is implied or not !!!

I guess you know why ...:}

[bubs]

You may remember I had the same issue Mike, I stumbled onto a possible answer (sort of lol) Every few days I was having to release air from the system due to the pedal hitting the floor. I went to do this at work one day, had someone sitting inside holding the pdeal down and I undid the nipple and while doing this I dropped the spanner as I went to do the nipple back up, this meant for a couple of seconds the nipple was open. The guy kept the pedal down and when I finally got the spanner back and did the nipple up I had obviously lost a small trickle of fluid. Luckily the pedal felt ok so as I was at work I thought I would see how it behaves on the way home

The result was that 3 months on I still have a clutch pedal that works and I haven't had to touch the system since!! I don't know the cause but my theory is possible over-pressurisation of the system causing fluid to seep out from the nipple or slave housing which in turn meant air got sucked back in? I think what i know have is a very small air bubble in the system but as the clutch works and i don't have the bleed it every few days that's fine by me.

[FrenchMike]

Glad you're sorted ..:}

As for me ,here is my last attempt to rule out the genuine needle valve screw ...:duh:

47532

With the cooperation of a needle screw from a home radiator.

The amont of options diminishes ...

Could everyone confirm that this kind of issue arises preferably with Tazu master AND B&B slave ?

Mike

[bubs]

I forget, did you try fitting a complete new bleed nipple? That was going to be my next option. I thought trying one of these tools ebay link (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Copper-Brake-Pipe-Line-Flaring-Tool-Professional-In-situ-3-16-SAE-Hand-Held-/261734862516?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3cf09d0eb4) that it would have been small enough to get down there while in place but still strong enough to bend the steel pipe. That would be a last resort though, cause after that you've got no pipe left to work with.

Mine is an LUK slave, my problems started shortly after fitting the new master (OEM). I was getting the sinking pedal so had a look and noticed the replacement master had started leaking. Thinking this the cause i got a refund on that and got the Tazu mk1. But the problem continued, that's when i noticed the air lock getting into the slave nipple end and my weekly air release schedule started.

[FrenchMike]

I forget, did you try fitting a complete new bleed nipple? That was going to be my next option. I thought trying one of these tools ebay link (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Copper-Brake-Pipe-Line-Flaring-Tool-Professional-In-situ-3-16-SAE-Hand-Held-/261734862516?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3cf09d0eb4) that it would have been small enough to get down there while in place but still strong enough to bend the steel pipe. That would be a last resort though, cause after that you've got no pipe left to work with.

Mine is an LUK slave, my problems started shortly after fitting the new master (OEM). I was getting the sinking pedal so had a look and noticed the replacement master had started leaking. Thinking this the cause i got a refund on that and got the Tazu mk1. But the problem continued, that's when i noticed the air lock getting into the slave nipple end and my weekly air release schedule started.

Thanks for the link ,that will be my last resort before replacing the slave again

But this time,i think i'll test it before fitting !