Liner Shims 2.5 KV6

[springeraust]

Has anyone tried putting shims under the liners to raise them when they are level and not protruding from the case? I can find plenty on the 4 cylinder but not the V6. If someone has done this I would be interested to hear of their experience and how successful it was.

[rrobson]

I made some for the k4 as the liners were slightly low and it worked well. However because id used a cheap gasket it still leaked but I thought the block was warped so I skipped the block.

Anyway, I'm assuming you've stripped the head off and measured the liner heights? as long as they are proud they should be ok. Obviously if theyre low some shims will correct it

[Doc Evil]

Hi
The principle of using the shims is same regardless of how many cylinders you have it will work as long as the block hasn't been annealed and you can get them the correct size fitting them is an identical process
Doc

[springeraust]

Thanks for the quick reply Fellas, Having checked and rechecked the protrusion on this motor, it appears to be .07mm (approx. .00275"). I understand it should be between .004 and .005" so if I put the shims in it will raise it too high particularly as a posting on this forum said the shims are actually .004" thick. I'm wondering if I should just try a new gasket with new head bolts and see how it goes. What are your thoughts?:shrug:

[Doc Evil]

The V6 having a shorter block doesn't suffer quite the same as the k4 and hgf is rare but not unheard of, they do however suffer from liner problems what are your symptoms have you actually confirmed that the gaskets have failed as oil/coolant mix can be caused by failed oil cooler. Have you carried out a compression test or can you clearly see a failed pathway between fire ring and waterway
Your liner protrusion would be suitable for simply replacing the gasket as I believe Rover didn't actually state that you couldn't use a liner protrusion less than three thou providing the block hasn't annealed your liners should be the same height they where when originally fitted and therefore you should get a similar mileage out of the new gaskets or more due to improvement in the gasket design
Hope this has been helpful
Doc

[springeraust]

Thanks for your reply Doc, judging from the machining on the block and the head I don't think they have had work done on them but the gasket looked strange to me, it had one thick silver layer in the centre and only one black layer either side of it. Two of my other 75,s I've taken the heads off had the usual MLS gaskets. This one has the Champion coils on all six plugs and a different oil cooler(which has checked out OK). There was oil in the water and bubbles, but thankfully no water in the oil when I got it. Being hopeful I put new gaskets on the inlet manifolds and gave it several air + water flushes after running with cleaner for some time, that didn't help and the cooling system received another dose of oil. This vehicle has done about 159,000 klms(100,000 miles) but I don't have any history for it.

[rrobson]

You could use 2 thou shims. If someone got me some accurate sizes and I can find some 2 thou material I could make some.
But I'd be tempted to try it, after all a thou is next to nothing and at least they are proud

[springeraust]

Thanks for that, I will give it a go as it's worth a try rather than taking the motor out and removing all the liners. I hope I don't have to take you up on your offer, thanks again.

[Doc Evil]

A kind offer there rrobson
By the sounds of it I would be inclined to fit good quality gaskets and go for it, if she gives you another 100000 miles you can't argue with that
Good luck and Happy Rovering
Doc

[rrobson]

I'm not 100% on this (I've never stripped a v6 down) but assuming they are similar to the k4 you wouldn't have to remove the engine, only the sump and oil rail. What I did on the 4 was remove the big ends and knock the liners and Pistons together out the block. Fit shims apply hylomar and replace.

I've had less stand up on other k4's and put hg on with no trouble

[springeraust]

Re-assuring words, I shall look into that if I have to, thanks again.

[beinet1]

Thanks for the quick reply Fellas, Having checked and rechecked the protrusion on this motor, it appears to be .07mm (approx. .00275"). I understand it should be between .004 and .005" so if I put the shims in it will raise it too high particularly as a posting on this forum said the shims are actually .004" thick. I'm wondering if I should just try a new gasket with new head bolts and see how it goes. What are your thoughts?:shrug:

Hi there,

My thoughts:

The factory specification for liner protrusion is 0-0,075mm. In your case, I would not do anything with them. Only refit with the best quality gasket available.

The rumors says the MLS gasket needs a liner protrusion of 0,075-0,1mm (0.003"-0.004"), but I have not seen any official MGR or LR documents stating this.

The KV6 is of a different design than the K4. It does not have the long through bolts for example and HGF is not common in the same way as for the K4`s, so not all of the same issues applies.

The KV6`s was factory fitted with a MLS gasket from the start, so these gaskets may look different than the typical K4 aftermarket MLS gasket.
Remember to replace the cylinder head bolts as these are of the stretch-to-yield type as commonly used on most engines.
I think the short head bolts gives a more stable clamping force of the cylinder head than the long bolts on the K4, making the KV6 more suitable for MLS gasket s than the K4.

[springeraust]

G,day Beinet1, I have started to put the heads back on today with new head gaskets and bolts, I must admit I have spent a considerable amount of time reading posts on the forum trying to find the figures you have provided during which I have read many of your in depth reports and those of others which I have found very helpful. It is obvious the 4K has more head gasket problems than the V6 just by the number of posts on the subject, (or maybe there were many more 4k than KV6 motors sold in the cars). Thank goodness for this web site which I regard as "The Living Rover 75 MGZT Encyclopedia.'

[minimutly]

There were more k4 sold than v6es, loads more. And the fact that the v6 never used an elastomer gasket that only lasts 7-10 years also has a huge bearing.
Myself I don't believe there was much wrong with the k4 1400, other than the gasket. The 1.6/1.8 should have been redesigned with a thicker liner, even with a flat on each side would have been an improvement IMHO.
When you can tune these things to 280 odd bhp there can't be much wrong with them.
Who won the manufacturers championship last yr, with a 30 year old engine design....

[Doc Evil]

Hi there,

My thoughts:

The factory specification for liner protrusion is 0-0,075mm. In your case, I would not do anything with them. Only refit with the best quality gasket available.

The rumors says the MLS gasket needs a liner protrusion of 0,075-0,1mm (0.003"-0.004"), but I have not seen any official MGR or LR documents stating this.

The KV6 is of a different design than the K4. It does not have the long through bolts for example and HGF is not common in the same way as for the K4`s, so not all of the same issues applies.

The KV6`s was factory fitted with a MLS gasket from the start, so these gaskets may look different than the typical K4 aftermarket MLS gasket.
Remember to replace the cylinder head bolts as these are of the stretch-to-yield type as commonly used on most engines.
I think the short head bolts gives a more stable clamping force of the cylinder head than the long bolts on the K4, making the KV6 more suitable for MLS gasket s than the K4.

I think you're right Einar the combination of a shorter head and block combined with the short head bolts give a vastly improved clamping force and less flexing therefore less gasket issues, however they can have issues with their liners but I have not come across this personally

Doc