Clutch On The Floor

[olliewarwick]

Hi All,

I've read through loads of posts regarding various clutch issues, but just interested on your views just in case I've missed something.

Yesterday morning my girlfriend jumped in our 05 diesel ZT manual to go out and the clutch was very light and not engaging any gears. I had a look last night, the master cylinder had a very small amount of fluid on the rubber cover at one end and the reservoir was (I think) pretty much empty so I topped it up and did a quick bleed. For the first three or four pumps opaque black fluid came out of the bleed from under the bonnet and now all I'm getting is air. So I topped up reservoir again and my girlfriend dutifully pushed the clutch down however, now it is down and doesn't spring back up again.

I tried this for another few goes and still nothing coming out, apart from air.

I was bleeding it in the traditional way (open nipple, foot down, close etc.) so tonight I'm going to try a one man bleed kit with a one way valve just in case air is getting back in.

My feeling is that this is in vain as either the master or slave is faulty and I reckon I'm going to end up replacing both along with clutch kit, but just in case anyone else has any thoughts before I tackle the big job.

Thanks in advance,
Ollie

[planenut]

You can lift the pedal by hand until all working, but don't fill the reservoir; leave at least a clear inch, maybe an inch and a half, that is with the seal removed.
do make sure you are closing the bleed before the pedal is allowed to rise, or be lifted.
Good luck.

[FrenchMike]

Hi Ollie,

Welcome to the club :duh:
Exactly what happened to me at only 65kmiles:

http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=45125

Good luck

Mike

[vincentfishing]

hi,so easy with the halfords easy bleed with the bonus that once you finished bleeding you can take off the bottle from the bleed pipe(leave the bleed pipe on matercylinder, squeeze bottle and screw lid back on and it will suck out the requiered amount of fluid from resevoir ready to refit condomy thing with no spillage,good luck.

[olliewarwick]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for your reply. Having taken another look I think the failure might be a little more terminal. I couldn't find the condomy looking thing in the master cylinder so someone has obviously been at this before. But further to that, it's not even pumping air through now, I didn't have an ezeebleed but I did have a similar one man bleed kit that has a one way valve on the other end and nothing was coming through at all so presumably the master has totally given up. I looked under the car and cannot see any fluid leaking so I'm hoping a replacement master cylinder will resolve, which I've now purchased from DMGRS. If that doesn't resolve it then I'll go down the path of replacing the slave and clutch kit but would obviously like to avoid that if possible as I don't really have the time for that at the moment.

I'll let you know how I get on.

Thanks,
Ollie

[olliewarwick]

Thanks Mike, I think your guide is going to be invaluable when this inevitably turns into a much bigger job than I'm hoping.

Ollie

[FrenchMike]

Thanks Mike, I think your guide is going to be invaluable when this inevitably turns into a much bigger job than I'm hoping.

Ollie

Well Ollie,the main difficulty is to rotate /align box versus engine ....so

the second time,i got a great hepl from these little Tools:

(i am 70 without companion :shrug:)

http://rovermg1.free.fr/rovermg/thumbnails/oPWQwCbZvBQkQK3ofpSM.jpg (http://rovermg1.free.fr/rovermg/images/oPWQwCbZvBQkQK3ofpSM.jpg)

http://rovermg1.free.fr/rovermg/thumbnails/3ciAcBdFJMkkv1keWZnJ.jpg (http://rovermg1.free.fr/rovermg/images/3ciAcBdFJMkkv1keWZnJ.jpg)

http://rovermg1.free.fr/rovermg/thumbnails/1IZSKzwglZuRVYJjinzJ.jpg (http://rovermg1.free.fr/rovermg/images/1IZSKzwglZuRVYJjinzJ.jpg)

Cheers !

Mike

[olliewarwick]

Looks like a great idea, I was going to use a spare jack underneath but that looks more controllable. I too am going to be tackling this on my own.

I'll let you know how I get on after fitting the new master cylinder.

Thanks,
Ollie

[mechnophobe]

Hi Ollie.
I had same problem with my slave a couple of weeks back, I had persevered with topping up the master for a few weeks and noticed that it was becoming more frequent, with you saying that on the first bleed the fluid was dark would suggest that the slave is on the way out, when you say that nothing is coming out at all now, is your master reservoir empty or full after pumping the pedal, if it is empty then your fluid is going straight through to bell housing, if you look under the car beneath the gearbox you will see it leaking out of the drainhole,if it is still full could be a problem with master cylinder piston. Anyway just let you know I changed the clutch and slave myself following the excellent instructions from French Mike, as you may have guessed from my avatar name I do not profess to be expert in all things mechanical, but it only took me 2 days taking it very steady ensuring all instructions were followed encountered only a few minor problems, created by myself may I add, I have done 350 miles on the new one now feels great fingers crossed, if I were to do another one I reckon it would take me a day. Good luck with it.

[andy willi]

you could just call me as i have a job in your area soon and would combine the two to keep costs down easy job to do for me


andy

[smeegol]

i had a problem with car not going into gear so i did a reverse bleed (put it on here somewhere )
It is so much easier than a normal bleed as it forces all the air upwards.

[olliewarwick]

Hi All,

Thanks for your responses. I tried the bleed again and started getting fluid through so I'd obviously made a mistake somewhere. Anyway, the clutch is working again now so clearly a problem with the master or slave. I'm getting a very small amount of weeping from the master, and nothing from the slave (nothing under the car, finger in the drainage holes in the bottom of the bell housing only shows clutch dust residue) however, in my experience when dealing with things like these not doing a full job is a false economy. I've received the new master cylinder from DMGRS so will fit that shortly, and then plan the rest.

Andy, many thanks for your offer. When do you think you'll be down? Depending if I get the time I'll do this myself but time is quickly running out (baby due in just over a week).

Thanks All.
Ollie

[Ennine]

Looks like a great idea, I was going to use a spare jack underneath but that looks more controllable. I too am going to be tackling this on my own.

I'll let you know how I get on after fitting the new master cylinder.

Thanks,
Ollie
Jacks are a nightmare. Been there, done that. If I ever get involved in another one I would look for suspending. I used jacks with shaped blocks and my experience (with a second pair of hands) was one of fighting with it every inch of the way.

Nige

[olliewarwick]

Thanks for all the advice. I bit the bullet and renewed the clutch, master, pipe and slave and effectively did the job twice. DMGRS supplied all except the pipe, with exemplary service I must say. I got the new input seal and o ring from Rimmer bro at a later point.

There have been a few comments about the copper pipe supplied with the master. Using customhoses.co.uk I created my own using the following spec which worked perfectly:

Fitting 1: Swivel Male - M10x1.00mm - 70 degrees. Fitting 2: Swivel Male - M10x1.00mm - Straight. Hose length = 925mm.


I wasn't convinced by the copper pipe only because there was no allowance for the vibration from the engine so logic told me that fatigue will ensue after a period of time. Further to that I did get engine noise through the cabin when using the new master cylinder with the copper pipe so a translucent purple replacement (my girlfriend chose the colour) did the trick. This noise disappeared when using the new flexi pipe and she points it out every time I open the bonnet now.

I also had another issue with the clutch, when I replaced the clutch first time round I obviously nicked the input shaft seal as it was dripping oil, so had to do the whole job again with a new seal and o ring. I put grease on the shaft this time, which I had missed before and that resolved the issue. The clutch hadn't gotten contaminated with gearbox oil otherwise the swearing would probably have offended the neighbours.

In my opinion I would say the clutch is a doable job with the right tools and patience.

Hope the above is useful to someone in future.

Ollie

[FrenchMike]

Congrats then ,and happy motoring :}

Mike

[olliewarwick]

I wouldn't like to have attempted it without your guide mind you.

Ollie

[hamster19]

Well done; happy motoring. :}

[cbr1100xx]

hi , exactly the same as what happened to mine , just finished changing the clutch/slave and master . it took me 5 days laying on a gravel drive and stopping for constant rain showers , the hardest parts of the job i found were lining the gearbox up after , and shaping the copper pipe where it goes through the bulkhead , time and patience is the answer , if having problems walk away for a while and then come back and it tends to go back straight away , good luck