coolant level in minimum seems thermostat leaking

[super s]

hello everyone..

help needed in this situation...

today i was cheking the plenum and the alarm horn because its not playing loud its souding the alarm but very low... didn t solved, dont know whats the problema with it...

while that i saw what make me very worried, a small track of pink in what i think is the thermostat, next i went to see the level and te cup was marked in the minimum...

never hapened to me so my question is if the stat can loose coolant and why..???

the temperature of the car never passed the normal 9 oclock, yeasterday i made 300 kms journey in speeds near the 170 kms per hour...

any relation?

should i be very worried or is it usual?

thanks for answering..

[T-Cut]

The diesel thermostat is prone to leakage fromthe o-ring seal. It's also tends to give low running temperature after a few years service. The 'normal' position on the temperature gauge means 75-115C, so it tells you very little. Check the running temperature accuratly using the Diagnostic Mode method. You need at least 88C for good efficiency.

See: http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=55585

Loss of coolant is not a good thing for any engine. The diesel will overheat if coolant inventory gets too low. I'd suggest having the thermostat replaced with one of the '3rd generation' type from DMGRS. Thermostat replacement in the diesel is a slow job.

TC

[Astraeus]

the temperature of the car never passed the normal 9 oclock, yeasterday i made 300 kms journey in speeds near the 170 kms per hour


:eek:

Really :duh: not sure I would be posting that...

[super s]

astraeus i dont really undertand why you say that but,dont think it was a long journey to push a bit by the car...

t cut thank you for your help, i will top the collant and be chnging it next days, really seemed from the stat that coolant escape...

i will put here the after work..

[super s]

ok... so trip to work with diagnotics in obc marked in maximum 84 in trip of 28 kms...

so i presume like you have said stat always open, so not the better economy, but my preocupation goes to the leak that seemed from the seal of the stat like you said, top the coolant to his maximum it was in minimum,tomorrow it will to go the garage to revision oil, filters and in this case to take care of the leak and of course stat replacing and coolant, also thot about repalcing the manual gear oil...

its adviced or what?

hope not bringing any problems to engine, i will top the coolant till it goes to the garage so its does not reach alarming low levels...

if i do that it wont be any issue will it???

[T-Cut]

A running temperature of 84C or so suggests the thermostat is becoming 'tired' and will benefit by replacement anyway.

There is no problem in repeating the coolant top up providing you check level daily and ensure it is always visible in the header/expansion tank.

The service schedule for tese cars indicates a gearbox oil change every 105K miles or 7 years. The full schedule is shown below.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y191/waveguide/ServiceScheduleSheet.jpg

TC

[super s]

feeling much more peacefull after reading about the and that it is usual the seal to fail... and if i keep the coolant steady keeping an eye on it its ok, makes me releave in something more serious..

beside the alrme horn that plays very low and the drivers look mechanism that does not open with fob but closes i never had an issue with it in this year an a half since i bought it...

i think i will change also the brake pads and clutch oil...

[Supervinnie40]

A running temperature of 84C or so suggests the thermostat is becoming 'tired' and will benefit by replacement anyway.

There is no problem in repeating the coolant top up providing you check level daily and ensure it is always visible in the header/expansion tank.

The service schedule for tese cars indicates a gearbox oil change every 105K miles or 7 years. The full schedule is shown below.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y191/waveguide/ServiceScheduleSheet.jpg

TC

Good piece of info that sheet!
Can you recommend a certain type of gearbox fluid? Or is it different for the 1.8 to the V6 for example?

[T-Cut]

Can you recommend a certain type of gearbox fluid? Or is it different for the 1.8 to the V6 for example?

I can only suggest using what the Haynes manual specifies. It states Texaco MTF94 or Burmah MTF1067. There are no doubt updated equivalents and I believe there are threads on the subject. If you search 'MTF94' using the Google engine, you'll find lots of info.

TC

[super s]

so tc i work in a car part house here in Portugal but its not beeing easy to find a thermostat for my zt...

how can i buy one from dgmrs if i dont find one here til thursday?

does he have a store online?

and about the temperature, which is the temperature max to be alarm and stop the car in journey?

i am asking that just to be looking to obc while driving...

but i am seeing the coolant level everytime before star trip to work...

[v-man]

how can i buy one from dgmrs if i dont find one here til thursday?

does he have a store online?

He does have online store, whether he can send to Portugal I don't know. You can always ask.

Link (http://www.dmgrs.co.uk/collections/m47r-td4-engine-parts/products/rover-75-mg-zt-cdti-thermostat-and-waterpump-kit-premium-peb102470-pel100570) to diesel thermostat kit from DMGRS.

[Supervinnie40]

I just ordered some stuff from him to The Netherlands, so I think he does ship to Portugal. But you can always ask. He replies fairly quick.

[super s]

i have been in the store online dmgrs but the thermostat only comes with the water pump,i dont think i need the water pump...

does he have only the stat for sale...???
i will send him a message to see..

thanks......

and about my question related to the max temperature that i should be very alarmed and pull over the car, does anyone know that?

[T-Cut]

does he have only the stat for sale...???

Mk3 Thermostat: http://www.dmgrs.co.uk/collections/thermostats-and-waterpumps/products/r75-mg-zt-freelander-td4-diesel-thermostat-kit-aftermarket-revised-version

and about my question related to the max temperature that I should be very alarmed and pull over the car, does anyone know that?The 'normal' temperature is limited at 115C. I think you should be getting alarmed if the engine approaches that and very alarmed if it exceeds it. Having said that, I've never read of a diesel reaching anywhere near that, but it's possible if the coolant inventory has got low and/or the cooling fan has stopped working and/or the engine is being over worked.

TC

[chipsceola]

i have been in the store online dmgrs but the thermostat only comes with the water pump,i dont think i need the water pump...

does he have only the stat for sale...???
i will send him a message to see..

thanks......

and about my question related to the max temperature that i should be very alarmed and pull over the car, does anyone know that?

:smilie_re: Cautionary tale here (http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/forum/showpost.php?p=2041200&postcount=30) about failed water pumps! // perhaps why Mat includes in his DMGRS kit?

[super s]

thanks everyone for all answers...

my zt will go to garage tomorrow to do all the revision, filters, oil, and gear box oil change...

before they start working i will talk about the coolant leak that i suspect is from the stat so they can verified...

this last day i made something like 60 kms and the coolant was exacqly in the same position that i top yeasterday, for my surprise...
any ideas why???

tomorrow i will be bringing news...

thanks

[Mike Noc]

:smilie_re: Cautionary tale here (http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/forum/showpost.php?p=2041200&postcount=30) about failed water pumps! // perhaps why Mat includes in his DMGRS kit?


Op has a diesel engine though Chips. The water pump is driven by the serpentine belt, so even a catastrophic failure like bearing collapse won't damage the engine.

And original fitment diesel water pumps seem to last far longer - they can be good for getting on for 300k miles.

If there is any play or roughness in the pulley when tested with the belt off then definitely worth replacing.








.

[super s]

left it in the garage in the morning, going to take it tomorrow at noon...

lets see if it was something else or really the stat...

thanks again everybody and tomorrow i will bring news..

[super s]

well, here i am with only a few news...

everithing went ok with the revision, oil, filters, and gearbox was watched by the mechanic and he told me the oil was in level and with good appareance so he told not to change it.. it was no need..

talking about the leak, he told that it was from the stat, probably from the seal of it...

he tould me it was a bit loosen, and gave it a push to see if it can survive after all, if not, i will have to go there again to finally change it...

lets see the next 2 or 3 days if the coolant goes down...

i ve been using this garage for some 3 years, they usually work very well but this time, when i pick the car i became a bit suspicious with their work...

they always check all the levels and wash the car in the end...

this time i had break fluids a bit below the max, the windscreen washer was not on max also and car was as dirty as i left it...

seemed they just didn t did more to work in others cars ,,,

think they care about my mg zt this time...

basically change oil filters and called me to take the car from there...

[super s]

so... i na update before the car goes to garage to change the stat...

they found a stat and called me to do the servisse, finally a good job after the last bad experience...

the stat will cost me something like 44 euros plus the service, in the garage, i saw it is na original one, however it doesn t come with the small oring,,,

they said they could use the one that is in the car, or then if it is not ok, they would find a oring to fit in the stat without any issue...

question today are...

does the stat really comes without the oring ???

and could be fitted any oring if the other is not good, doesn t need to be a original oem oring for the stat???

thanks in advance...

[super s]

could anyone please give the opinion for those questions above...

could the small oring be reffited in the new stat???

if not, any oring with the same size is ok???

and if is usual the original stat comes without the small oring???

i am making the questions so i can speak with the garage mechanic if i feel they are not doing it right...

thanks again...

[T-Cut]

The thermostat 'o-ring' is actually a shaped seal. I'd expect one to come with a new thermostat. Did you check with the supplier (DMGRS?). I don't think a standard circular o-ring will easily adapt to fit the thermostat groove. This is the seal I mean.

http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/ItemImages/Large/PET100990.jpg

This fits between the stat and the water pump flange. See Item 5 in the drawing in Post 35 here: http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=102943&page=4

EDIT:
The stat supplied by DMGRS includes the seal: http://www.dmgrs.co.uk/collections/thermostats-and-waterpumps/products/r75-mg-zt-freelander-td4-diesel-thermostat-kit-aftermarket-revised-version

TC

[super s]

oh...

ok then... that seal camed with the stat, but it didn t came separate, it came already putted in the stat...

felling better and secure now, however i was talking about the circular one that seems a weeding ring, that we can see in jules link of thermostat replace in pink color...

which is that ring then???

[DMGRS]

The O Ring you mean is this one:
STC4540 - O Ring - CDTi Thermostat to Rail (http://www.dmgrs.co.uk/collections/seals-washers-and-o-rings/products/rover-75-mg-zt-cdti-thermostat-o-ring-stc4540-thermostat-to-heater-rail)

If I remember correctly it's quite an odd size, so ideally you need to replace with the proper item.

[T-Cut]

Ah, it's the coolant pipe connector o-ring. If you need it in a hurry, I'd have thought any local seals supplier would have a suitable size. This photo may help.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y191/waveguide/Cooling_System_Stuff/Diesel_Thermostat/Housing_Post_Dimension_zpspndzja3x.jpg

The dimension of the socket gives a rough idea. The outside diameter of the ring will be 24.5mm or so. The internal diameter/thickness depends on the pipe diameter, which is 20mm by my measurement. Any decent mechanic will sort it out.

TC

[super s]

yes...

thats right ...

i think they will manage to have or find a necessary oring for that..

anyway....

like it does not come with the oring, and don t see also jules repalcing for a new one in the link above in post,,,,

is it usual to use the same oring????

thanks t-cut and mat

[T-Cut]

I'm sure many garages will reuse the existing o-ring, but in an ideal world, it would be replaced with the stat/housing.

TC

[super s]

last update and question about this tread...

so everything changed oring included because the one that was there colud not be reused, it was almost garbage...

everything went ok, they took something like 3 hours, but did a good job..

the last question that i have is...

returning home the temperatur was 90c almost all the trip, however for few moments it made 91c and 92c, then went again for 90c.

is normal to reach ocasionally and for few moments 92c???

the trip was 30 kms...

thanks everyone..

[SD1too]

returning home the temperatur was 90c almost all the trip, however for few moments it made 91c and 92c, then went again for 90c.

is normal to reach ocasionally and for few moments 92c???

Absolutely normal! In fact, your temperature in theory can rise to 100° when the radiator fan should cut-in. Check that it's working by doing the 'demist test'.

Simon

[super s]

thank you sd1too ...

feeling smoth now, the fan works, because in garage it let it work while seeing if the replacement of the stat was ok...

so can close this thread... everything ok finnaly and first real issue with the solved...

thanks everybody that help here..