Rear Brake Pipe dropping Tank

[Best_of_British]

Hi

As tittle suggests I am about to have a look at replacing rear brake pipe, I have done a fair bit of research on here and have the parts ready to go. My only concern is the cheap Sealey flaring tool may not be up to the job, some say they will be others say I will end up buying another, I will conclude the thread with picture of tool and a appraisal.

I hope to drop the tank slightly and ease the old pipe out in one piece to use as a template, but I cant find much information on dropping the fuel tank.

As far as I can see the craddle straps are held on by 4 bolts that I currently have soaked in plus gas along with the bleed nipples. The bit im unsure of is the top of the tank, what needs to be done under the seat squab to allow the tank to be safely lowered a little without damaging the pump and pipes?

[MSS]

Excellent question about dropping the tank. I've often wondered but never got around to researching.

[T-Cut]

Unless you must have the same pipe configuration, there's no particular reason to run the new pipes over the tank. It's perfectly satisfactory to trace them around it following an easier accessible route The essential thing is the pipework must be securely attached to the body with no possibility of being fouled by the suspension, etc. It will pass MOT whatever the routing.

TC

[Best_of_British]

Unless you must have the same pipe configuration, there's no particular reason to run the new pipes over the tank. It's perfectly satisfactory to trace them around it following an easier accessible route The essential thing is the pipework must be securely attached to the body with no possibility of being fouled by the suspension, etc. It will pass MOT whatever the routing.

TC

This will be plan B, but if possible I wanted to have a go at keeping it original and using the original clips and run. Its good to know there are alternative routes, I will have a look and see if I can find some pics of alternative routes.

[T-Cut]

I will have a look and see if I can find some pics of alternative routes.

i've never seen any myself, but basically you invent your own.

TC

[marinabrian]

Just take them off in one piece ;)

Run the tank down to the knockers, then when you are ready to replace the pipework, the tank can be dropped down and rested on the exhaust.

This will leave more than enough room to unclip the pipework, and remove to use as a template.

Then the new pipework can be installed using the same clips and same routing, avoiding the spaghetti look as seen in many "oh you don't need to take the tank off" just re-route it jobs ;)

Brian :D

[Mg guy]

I've dropped a tank on my last car as I thought the same thing use the old clips and same route. What a mistake it was the tank drop was a nightmare as the bolts on the brackets had rusted so more time spent there. Then most of the clips broke as they was very brittle after 10 years as they are only plastic.

In the end I just made my own route and cable tied it every foot or so which in the end took less time than dropping the tank. There was no problems with regards to MOT as long as they wont get caught on anything or drop down your all good.

[marinabrian]

I've dropped a tank on my last car as I thought the same thing use the old clips and same route. What a mistake it was the tank drop was a nightmare as the bolts on the brackets had rusted so more time spent there. Then most of the clips broke as they was very brittle after 10 years as they are only plastic.

In the end I just made my own route and cable tied it every foot or so which in the end took less time than dropping the tank. There was no problems with regards to MOT as long as they wont get caught on anything or drop down your all good.
Cable tied eh? remind me never to buy a car from you :eek:

The trick to releasing the brake pipes without wrecking the plastic clips, requires a little bit of thought......manufactured using an old bean tin, or similar thin sheet steel, fashion a U shaped tool about an inch tall and six or seven millimeters at the closed end.

Then you push the "U" over the brake pipe where it enters the clip thus compressing simultaneously both sides of the plastic clip, and the pipe can be levered gently out.

So no rive tear damage break, and easy refitting of the replacement pipes ;)

Also saves money on cable ties ;)

Brian :D

[Best_of_British]

Parts ordered and arrived:

http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz202/are_u_on_drugs/Brake%20Pipes/th_20150711_124433_zps9mmop55s.jpg (http://s828.photobucket.com/user/are_u_on_drugs/media/Brake%20Pipes/20150711_124433_zps9mmop55s.jpg.html)

Bleed nipples cleaned and sprayed with plus-gas. Good quality german spanner made easy work of them:

http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz202/are_u_on_drugs/Brake%20Pipes/th_20150711_131016_zpssdrqxxmk.jpg (http://s828.photobucket.com/user/are_u_on_drugs/media/Brake%20Pipes/20150711_131016_zpssdrqxxmk.jpg.html)

Attacked the rear union to flexi hose first:


http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz202/are_u_on_drugs/Brake%20Pipes/th_20150711_141039_zpsvajwgklx.jpg (http://s828.photobucket.com/user/are_u_on_drugs/media/Brake%20Pipes/20150711_141039_zpsvajwgklx.jpg.html)

The corrosion that caused MOT failure can be seen clearly on this one:

http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz202/are_u_on_drugs/Brake%20Pipes/th_20150711_141855_zpsvtu6kdei.jpg (http://s828.photobucket.com/user/are_u_on_drugs/media/Brake%20Pipes/20150711_141855_zpsvtu6kdei.jpg.html)

Next was the front union, again soaked in plus-gas

http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz202/are_u_on_drugs/Brake%20Pipes/th_20150711_135417_zpszik9h6o2.jpg (http://s828.photobucket.com/user/are_u_on_drugs/media/Brake%20Pipes/20150711_135417_zpszik9h6o2.jpg.html)

http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz202/are_u_on_drugs/Brake%20Pipes/th_20150711_135406_zpsf3gfkycj.jpg (http://s828.photobucket.com/user/are_u_on_drugs/media/Brake%20Pipes/20150711_135406_zpsf3gfkycj.jpg.html)

http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz202/are_u_on_drugs/Brake%20Pipes/th_20150711_140631_zpsyha3hqjz.jpg (http://s828.photobucket.com/user/are_u_on_drugs/media/Brake%20Pipes/20150711_140631_zpsyha3hqjz.jpg.html)

Pipe was easy to remove with a bit of care all the clips stayed intact.

Old used as a template for new:

http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz202/are_u_on_drugs/Brake%20Pipes/th_20150711_155413_zpsirihswfg.jpg (http://s828.photobucket.com/user/are_u_on_drugs/media/Brake%20Pipes/20150711_155413_zpsirihswfg.jpg.html)

Pipe replacement was easy as it just clips back into old clips.

http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz202/are_u_on_drugs/Brake%20Pipes/th_20150712_175117_zps6ktnc7cw.jpg (http://s828.photobucket.com/user/are_u_on_drugs/media/Brake%20Pipes/20150712_175117_zps6ktnc7cw.jpg.html)

http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz202/are_u_on_drugs/Brake%20Pipes/th_20150711_180723_zpsaqggo1ok.jpg (http://s828.photobucket.com/user/are_u_on_drugs/media/Brake%20Pipes/20150711_180723_zpsaqggo1ok.jpg.html)

http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz202/are_u_on_drugs/Brake%20Pipes/th_20150711_175452_zps5o2flhvp.jpg (http://s828.photobucket.com/user/are_u_on_drugs/media/Brake%20Pipes/20150711_175452_zps5o2flhvp.jpg.html)

http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz202/are_u_on_drugs/Brake%20Pipes/th_20150711_175436_zpsfd6bxisu.jpg (http://s828.photobucket.com/user/are_u_on_drugs/media/Brake%20Pipes/20150711_175436_zpsfd6bxisu.jpg.html)

http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz202/are_u_on_drugs/Brake%20Pipes/th_20150711_175429_zpsgxffh242.jpg (http://s828.photobucket.com/user/are_u_on_drugs/media/Brake%20Pipes/20150711_175429_zpsgxffh242.jpg.html)

http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz202/are_u_on_drugs/Brake%20Pipes/th_20150711_175422_zps9vw1zbpx.jpg (http://s828.photobucket.com/user/are_u_on_drugs/media/Brake%20Pipes/20150711_175422_zps9vw1zbpx.jpg.html)

Quick bleed and all done.

http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz202/are_u_on_drugs/Brake%20Pipes/th_20150711_175354_zpsf69jwros.jpg (http://s828.photobucket.com/user/are_u_on_drugs/media/Brake%20Pipes/20150711_175354_zpsf69jwros.jpg.html)

I have done 100 miles since and checked the unions today, no leaks bone dry. So one down 2 to go, NSR will be done next.

[marinabrian]

Excellent, just as it should be done ;)

You may find the NSR run a little trickier, as this one requires the dropping of the tank ;)

I have in most occasions fitted an extra union midway along the run above the tank, and when removing the old pipe to use as the template, made a cut in the original pipe in the same place, meaning it can be removed from the car without distorting the shape ;)

I note you've used copper pipe, the only thing I would have done differently would be to use kunifer, but the job looks good so far :bowdown:

Brian :D

[T-Cut]

Well done.
I noticed the rear susension arm looks flaky. Is it OK?

http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz202/are_u_on_drugs/Brake%20Pipes/20150711_130136_zps9zsqwt7i.jpg

TC

[Dragrad]

I've dropped a tank on my last car as I thought the same thing use the old clips and same route. What a mistake it was the tank drop was a nightmare as the bolts on the brackets had rusted so more time spent there. Then most of the clips broke as they was very brittle after 10 years as they are only plastic.

In the end I just made my own route and cable tied it every foot or so which in the end took less time than dropping the tank. There was no problems with regards to MOT as long as they wont get caught on anything or drop down your all good.

Too true, no need to drop the tank to replace the rear brake pipes, simply re-route ;) That is what I did :D

[Best_of_British]

Just to tie up thread.

MOT passed yesterday with only advisories being low tyre tread, unfortunatly it has taken me more than 10 days to do required work so it was a full Test again, at least I have piece of mind that it has had a thorough going over and has a fresh bill of health.

Wishbone replacement turned into a trauma due to the middle peg refusing to come free of subframe, ended up borrowing a garages lift for 10 minutes and huge ball joint splitter fork with sledge hammer to beat it.

The other problem I struggled with and had to sort on the garage lift was the larger M12 union under the drivers seat bulk head refused to come undone. The problem is trying to brace the union block while you employ enough torque without twisting the pipes, the solution was a small set of quality mole grips locked on the union and braced against the bulkhead while you get a small turn to crack it, space is very limited.

Few pics of work:

http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz202/are_u_on_drugs/Brake%20Pipes/th_20150724_122132_zpscjdetg1s.jpg (http://s828.photobucket.com/user/are_u_on_drugs/media/Brake%20Pipes/20150724_122132_zpscjdetg1s.jpg.html)

OSF brake pipe, yes its wonky and not neat but it will do the job. If you want it looking good on the eye you need a small pair of pipe bending pliers to work in close quarters under the arch, I did this by hand and it shows. It follows the original run and is quite easy to get it clipped in the original clips I took battery box and air filter cover off to aid access routing pipe and found it easier to clip into the clips from underneath near the steering rack.

Next job was the dreaded NS rear, for some reason I expected this to be a ****** and expected to admit defeat and route around the tank. I can safely say it is quite easy to thread it over the top of the tank along original route, no joins needed. The old pipe had to be cut to remove and the key is to remove rear seat squab and both tanks inspection covers so you can see what is going on, also the tank has to be dropped a little, not by much just so there is a bit of give and play in it. Thanks for advising that this is possible as I would not have attempted it otherwise :D

I threaded the pipe through the inspection covers 1st as getting it accross the top of the tank is the tricky bit. I cut the pipe oversize and once it is accross the tank a bit of to-ing and fro-ing is needed to manipulate it but it is quite possible with easy to bend copper.

I know Kuniffer is preffered but I was worried that my cheap flaring tool may not be up to the task so settled for copper. I connected wheel side first then cut the long run under car to lenght and connected to splitter union.

Next task was the Inner Tie rod failure. Polish import failed to arrive so I ordered this from ECP

http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz202/are_u_on_drugs/Brake%20Pipes/th_20150724_121849_zpsm9vzenmp.jpg (http://s828.photobucket.com/user/are_u_on_drugs/media/Brake%20Pipes/20150724_121849_zpsm9vzenmp.jpg.html)

£28 including P+P and arrived in 3 days.

A few pics of job, the part to be replaced is here:

http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz202/are_u_on_drugs/Brake%20Pipes/th_20150724_122145_zpsfhw9jmlc.jpg (http://s828.photobucket.com/user/are_u_on_drugs/media/Brake%20Pipes/20150724_122145_zpsfhw9jmlc.jpg.html)

Wheel of and undo track Rod end:

http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz202/are_u_on_drugs/Brake%20Pipes/th_20150724_122152_zps9qwapxxd.jpg (http://s828.photobucket.com/user/are_u_on_drugs/media/Brake%20Pipes/20150724_122152_zps9qwapxxd.jpg.html)

This makes life much easier, not recommended without:

http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz202/are_u_on_drugs/Brake%20Pipes/th_20150724_122438_zpspqcihe8u.jpg (http://s828.photobucket.com/user/are_u_on_drugs/media/Brake%20Pipes/20150724_122438_zpspqcihe8u.jpg.html)

Pops it off with ease:

http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz202/are_u_on_drugs/Brake%20Pipes/th_20150724_122638_zpsuutovsak.jpg (http://s828.photobucket.com/user/are_u_on_drugs/media/Brake%20Pipes/20150724_122638_zpsuutovsak.jpg.html)

Track Rod now unscrews, counting the turns to retain a rough tracking, the cable tie was on the rack end of the bellows and a pain to get off:

http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz202/are_u_on_drugs/Brake%20Pipes/th_20150724_124241_zpskxqetkd4.jpg (http://s828.photobucket.com/user/are_u_on_drugs/media/Brake%20Pipes/20150724_124241_zpskxqetkd4.jpg.html)

Left with this:

http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz202/are_u_on_drugs/Brake%20Pipes/th_20150724_122836_zpsgzi06wlq.jpg (http://s828.photobucket.com/user/are_u_on_drugs/media/Brake%20Pipes/20150724_122836_zpsgzi06wlq.jpg.html)

The fubared ball joint:

http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz202/are_u_on_drugs/Brake%20Pipes/th_20150724_124324_zpsxg7oxjsh.jpg (http://s828.photobucket.com/user/are_u_on_drugs/media/Brake%20Pipes/20150724_124324_zpsxg7oxjsh.jpg.html)

The bellows really hamper you and get in the way. I had to grind the nut off to allow the bellows to slip off and out of way:

http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz202/are_u_on_drugs/Brake%20Pipes/th_20150724_150211_zps11ywjyar.jpg (http://s828.photobucket.com/user/are_u_on_drugs/media/Brake%20Pipes/20150724_150211_zps11ywjyar.jpg.html)

So far very straight forward, now I hit the brick wall. I have read they just unscrew with mole grips or water pump pliers:

http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz202/are_u_on_drugs/Brake%20Pipes/th_20150724_143424_zps4rqmchnb.jpg (http://s828.photobucket.com/user/are_u_on_drugs/media/Brake%20Pipes/20150724_143424_zps4rqmchnb.jpg.html)

Could not get it to budge, the clever Rover design of a smooth rounded body with no flats and the spot weld made it tricky.

I had to resort to grinding flats onto it to get a large spanner on it:

http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz202/are_u_on_drugs/Brake%20Pipes/th_20150724_150228_zpssxefnzk5.jpg (http://s828.photobucket.com/user/are_u_on_drugs/media/Brake%20Pipes/20150724_150228_zpssxefnzk5.jpg.html)

It took quite a lot of force to crack it off, which contradicts what some people have said. I think mine might have had a larger welding tack than most:

http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz202/are_u_on_drugs/Brake%20Pipes/th_20150724_150236_zpszrslb0lh.jpg (http://s828.photobucket.com/user/are_u_on_drugs/media/Brake%20Pipes/20150724_150236_zpszrslb0lh.jpg.html)

It took a bit of the rack with it:

http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz202/are_u_on_drugs/Brake%20Pipes/th_20150724_150534_zpswsfp6jfs.jpg (http://s828.photobucket.com/user/are_u_on_drugs/media/Brake%20Pipes/20150724_150534_zpswsfp6jfs.jpg.html)

Not good but hopefully it wont cause a problem, the new Tie Rod was screwed tight on with threadlock. Job done and the steering feels alot tighter and more positive. Once I have chased up the missing Polish import I will do the other side.

All good 12 months ticket, in reply to T-Cut yes the arms are flaky but MOT man was happy with them and they are next on the list to do. Rome wasnt built in a day. :}