Rover KV6 death rattle???

[mrdoofa]

Me and my nephew went to view a 2.0 V6 Connie SE today. On test drive we found a couple of concerns.

When we opened the bonnet there was a definite rattling sound from the inlet manifold area, you could hear it clearly with bonnet open but hardly at all with bonnet closed. The car seemed to drive fine. Is this the dreaded death rattle and if so how hard and expensive is it to get it fixed? Is it really terminal or is it just a noise you can live with?

Also, the engine cooling fan isn't working therefore once you stop the air con stops working. The dealer said this would be sorted. He seemed to think it was just the fan switch. Does this sound correct?

Another issue is that after about 10 mins driving, we parked up and left it idling whilst we listened to the inlet manifold, when I got back in the car I noticed the temperature gauge creeping up towards the red until it actually went in the red with the red engine overheating message on the display. Once we moved the car again it soon dropped back to the normal half way point. Is this down to the cooling fan not cutting in or something more serious.

The car is a 2002 2.0 V6 with 70k, 10 stamps in service book with cam belts changed at 40k, MOT June 2016. It is £1500. One thing we did like it is just about been all in project driven even down to the embossed headrests.

Here is a link to it:

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201507185309447?search-target=usedcars&onesearchad=used%2Cnearlynew%2Cnew&page=1&channel=cars&model=75&make=rover&sort=locasc&postcode=ls211dg&radius=1500&logcode=p

Cheers guys.

[T-Cut]

When we opened the bonnet there was a definite rattling sound from the inlet manifold area, you could hear it clearly with bonnet open but hardly at all with bonnet closed. The car seemed to drive fine. Is this the dreaded death rattle and if so how hard and expensive is it to get it fixed? Is it really terminal or is it just a noise you can live with?

Hardly a death rattle from the VIS. very common and usually fixable.

Also, the engine cooling fan isn't working therefore once you stop the air con stops working. The dealer said this would be sorted. He seemed to think it was just the fan switch. Does this sound correct?

No, but it will be fixable.

Another issue is that after about 10 mins driving, we parked up and left it idling whilst we listened to the inlet manifold, when I got back in the car I noticed the temperature gauge creeping up towards the red until it actually went in the red with the red engine overheating message on the display. Once we moved the car again it soon dropped back to the normal half way point. Is this down to the cooling fan not cutting in or something more serious.

Again probably fixable. Typical of coolant loss from a leaking thermostat housing probably.

It's most likely needing a bit of informed TLC. You'll find all about that around here.

TC

[minimutly]

Are you nuts?
What do you expect the coolant temperature to do when you leave the thing running with the fan off? Cool down?
A little common sense might go a long way, the peeps on this forum are a helpful bunch, but some thought before posting might go a long way.
Cue loads of hate mail for me....

[clf]

personally, I would expect the temperature to rise, and then the fan kick in. certainly in the cdti, that's what would happen, maybe the v6 has a constant running fan? then as it hit the red, I would switch off, for a short wile, until it cooled before moving off to allow airflow to cool further, and maybe inspect the coolant if not check before setting off. if the drive failed, I would inspect the coolant, in more depth. however, as the op has come here looking for advice, after wisely (in my view ) giving the car and good going over and work out, I would be inclined to suggest, depending on the fan fitted, that the resistor has likely failed. suggest to offer the dealer £1000 instead, and take the repairs on myself, less than £100 perhaps? but that's just me. :)

[Wayne2015]

Me and my nephew went to view a 2.0 V6 Connie SE today. On test drive we found a couple of concerns.

When we opened the bonnet there was a definite rattling sound from the inlet manifold area, you could hear it clearly with bonnet open but hardly at all with bonnet closed. The car seemed to drive fine. Is this the dreaded death rattle and if so how hard and expensive is it to get it fixed? Is it really terminal or is it just a noise you can live with?

Also, the engine cooling fan isn't working therefore once you stop the air con stops working. The dealer said this would be sorted. He seemed to think it was just the fan switch. Does this sound correct?

Another issue is that after about 10 mins driving, we parked up and left it idling whilst we listened to the inlet manifold, when I got back in the car I noticed the temperature gauge creeping up towards the red until it actually went in the red with the red engine overheating message on the display. Once we moved the car again it soon dropped back to the normal half way point. Is this down to the cooling fan not cutting in or something more serious.

The car is a 2002 2.0 V6 with 70k, 10 stamps in service book with cam belts changed at 40k, MOT June 2016. It is £1500. One thing we did like it is just about been all in project driven even down to the embossed headrests.

Here is a link to it:

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201507185309447?search-target=usedcars&onesearchad=used%2Cnearlynew%2Cnew&page=1&channel=cars&model=75&make=rover&sort=locasc&postcode=ls211dg&radius=1500&logcode=p

Cheers guys.


View this one instead - its an auto too! :D

http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=221788




Also
Look at this thread where a couple of Leeds members will inspect a potential buy for u! :bowdown:

http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=63839

[mrdoofa]

Are you nuts?
What do you expect the coolant temperature to do when you leave the thing running with the fan off? Cool down?
A little common sense might go a long way, the peeps on this forum are a helpful bunch, but some thought before posting might go a long way.
Cue loads of hate mail for me....

No I don't expect it to cool down and no I'm not nuts. I was wanting to see if it's solely the cooling fan to blame or possibly another issue. It just didn't seem to take long to overheat or to cool back down again. If you are expecting hate mail, joking or not then maybe you should apply some thought before posting.

[stocktake]

If the car is overheating then the fan has failed on all speeds, it is highly unlikely to be a simple switch, regardless of what has failed its a front bumper off etc. The rattle could be many things but if it is the manifold it can be changed. New ones are a tad expensive at around £550 plus fitting but used ones can be picked up.
I would be wary of a KV6 that has shown signs of overheating and has not been looked at. THe engine is robust but not bullet proof.

I would keep looking

D...

[marinabrian]

Walk away from this one, there are far better examples to be had for similar sort of money.

If the car was a £500 "doer upper" then fair enough, but it's not so it isn't.

Anyway if it were me, I would buy a 2.5 litre if going for a V6, the 2.0 is pretty underpowered, if not marginally smoother.

The search continues ;)

Brian :D

[SD1too]

I was wanting to see if it's solely the cooling fan to blame or possibly another issue.
It could easily be just the fan Martin. A DIY repair would be manageable at reasonable cost, but a dealer would be facing expediture of around £400 for the parts alone. The worrying thing is that this won't be the first time that the engine has overheated so other problems may be lurking. :o

You should also allow £500 for a new inlet manifold chamber if it is the power valve linkage which is missing or broken. Without this working properly you will find the V6 feels very sluggish and unrewarding. A second-hand part may or may not be in good condition.

So, with those things in mind, either follow clf's advice and offer the dealer £1,000 maximum and fix it yourself, or follow Stocktake's and Marinabrian's and keep looking.

Simon

[maxxpump]

There are many more fine examples of our cars, for similar pricing. So I would personally hold out for another car which may cost less than having to stick in a new fan and potentially deal with other problems that may have occurred while the fan has been in this state i.e: engine damage and problems with seals.

I'm not saying it will have problems, but do consider a better car which will give you the same joy, but without so much hassle!

[mrdoofa]

Thank you very much for all your advice.

I do remember that the temp needle was acting quite erratically, it would be at 3/4 then jump up to the end stop then jump back down again. This would all take place in a few seconds. When I set off to take the car back to the dealer the needle went back to 1/2 within about 100yards. Could it maybe be a sender issue in combination with the fan??

I am actually starting to think you guys could be right and am best leaving this one, it's a real shame though because the rest of the car is immaculate.

[stocktake]

Thank you very much for all your advice.

I do remember that the temp needle was acting quite erratically, it would be at 3/4 then jump up to the end stop then jump back down again. This would all take place in a few seconds. When I set off to take the car back to the dealer the needle went back to 1/2 within about 100yards. Could it maybe be a sender issue in combination with the fan??

I am actually starting to think you guys could be right and am best leaving this one, it's a real shame though because the rest of the car is immaculate.

The temp gauge is a known issue by design to give the driver the appearance of all is well. It remains in the mid position at anything from 75 to 115 if I remember correctly. It is not a good indicator of a steady temperature, merely one that is within tolerances.

If you want to know accurate water temp there is an on board diagnostics system that all 75's zt's have built in and it will display exact temp. ;).

See here (http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=184514&highlight=obd)

[chipsceola]

Thank you very much for all your advice.

I do remember that the temp needle was acting quite erratically, it would be at 3/4 then jump up to the end stop then jump back down again. This would all take place in a few seconds. When I set off to take the car back to the dealer the needle went back to 1/2 within about 100yards. Could it maybe be a sender issue in combination with the fan??

I am actually starting to think you guys could be right and am best leaving this one, it's a real shame though because the rest of the car is immaculate.

Temperature is normal, however erratic gauge is not there is a recent thread on erratic temp gauge that may help some, it's here (http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=195267)

[dave lincs]

in my opinion having had these in both 2.0 and 2.5 the 2.5 is more powerful and more economical in auto form the 2.5 will give you 5 mpg more
a friend of mine has a 2.0 auto and says he is lucky if he gets 25 mpg on a run
the 2.0 is also very underpowered which is the main reason it was replaced with the 1.8 turbo

[MrDoodles]

To fix this car properly, it sounds like it needs a new inlet manifold, cooling fan and thermostat (all common problems on the V6) and if you use new parts, you will end up with bills for nearly £2,000! :eek:

(Trust me, I know, as I have those bills in Ed's service history!) ;)

The likelihood of the seller doing this, is zero, so as has already been posted, keep looking and if you are looking for V6, find one that's had this work done and the 2.5 will have more poke, and often use less fuel, as you don't have to drive them as hard! :}

[Anon3]

in my opinion having had these in both 2.0 and 2.5 the 2.5 is more powerful and more economical in auto form the 2.5 will give you 5 mpg more
a friend of mine has a 2.0 auto and says he is lucky if he gets 25 mpg on a run
the 2.0 is also very underpowered which is the main reason it was replaced with the 1.8 turbo

:iagree:

And I own one!

[mrdoofa]

Thanks again for all your help and input, I have let my nephew read all the information and he is being put off the idea of buying one of these cars with all the common problems. He has to be very careful as he only has so much money to spend and doesn't want to buy a money pit. He knows of the ongoing issues I had with my diesel 75 which I have now sold and rather hoped that the petrol ones might fare better.
Is there no owners who have had good experiences with these cars to encourage him a little bit as he still really loves the 75 but has been made very reluctant to get one.

What I would like to ask is with the inlet rattling, can the car still be driven without causing further damage and roughly for how long. (ie: put up and shut up until we can get it repaired). The dealer has been in touch today and says he has sorted the cooling fan problem with some a new switch and relay I think he said, we are going to give it another viewing on Sunday afternoon.

[johnnyb44]

I think you would be wise to walk away from this car. How long this car has been suffering these issues is anybody's guess. There's lots of fine examples out there for silly money at the moment as its a buyers market with our cars.. Keep your eye on here too as some very nice cars come up for sale from time to time.
Johnny

[chipsceola]

Thanks again for all your help and input, I have let my nephew read all the information and he is being put off the idea of buying one of these cars with all the common problems. He has to be very careful as he only has so much money to spend and doesn't want to buy a money pit. He knows of the ongoing issues I had with my diesel 75 which I have now sold and rather hoped that the petrol ones might fare better.
Is there no owners who have had good experiences with these cars to encourage him a little bit as he still really loves the 75 but has been made very reluctant to get one.

What I would like to ask is with the inlet rattling, can the car still be driven without causing further damage and roughly for how long. (ie: put up and shut up until we can get it repaired). The dealer has been in touch today and says he has sorted the cooling fan problem with some a new switch and relay I think he said, we are going to give it another viewing on Sunday afternoon.

Reliability, value for money, wisdom of buying a 10/15 year old car, like all things has many aspects:

1. buy cheap as possible often from on-line auction.
Beware, being sold for a reason, most often without proof of history, you'll get what you pay for, and often regret it

2. buy off forum member,
ensure good service history with receipts and look back through member posts to reveal previous faults and repairs carried out etc. Cost will be a bit higher, but a good car can be economic and a good buy.

3. Buy from a dealer, pay highest price of all,
again seek history with receipts and make sure you have a warranty to cover unexpected repairs for at least 6-months.

4. Be aware of scope and range of common problems together with cost of fixing them across the model ranges 1.8 K4, 2.0 V6 and 2.0/2.5 diesel - don't fall into trap of automatically disregarding the 1.8/1.8T due to HGF - it doesn't happen every day and is a relatively easy fix at lowish cost.

[MrDoodles]

Thanks again for all your help and input, I have let my nephew read all the information and he is being put off the idea of buying one of these cars with all the common problems. He has to be very careful as he only has so much money to spend and doesn't want to buy a money pit. He knows of the ongoing issues I had with my diesel 75 which I have now sold and rather hoped that the petrol ones might fare better.
Is there no owners who have had good experiences with these cars to encourage him a little bit as he still really loves the 75 but has been made very reluctant to get one.

What I would like to ask is with the inlet rattling, can the car still be driven without causing further damage and roughly for how long. (ie: put up and shut up until we can get it repaired). The dealer has been in touch today and says he has sorted the cooling fan problem with some a new switch and relay I think he said, we are going to give it another viewing on Sunday afternoon.

To be fair, the car can be driven for as long as you want with a failing inlet manifold, however, the cars performance will be compromised and it will absolutely drink fuel.

You state that he doesn't want to buy a "money pit" well if you are looking at 10-15 year old cars, there WILL be expenditure on them, unless you are extremely lucky (as I was) and find a car with a full dealer history (including invoices) and that the previous owner has replaced all the common failure parts (as mine had) and apart from routine maintenance, Ed's not cost me a penny in nearly 4 years! :bowdown:

You also have to bear in mind that if you are buying a car of this age from a dealer, that approx 50% of the purchase price, will be profit for the Dealer, so would suggest that if he does want to go with one of our cars, then a nice car bought privately (with the proper checks done) will be better value. :}

Personally, if budget is an issue, I would have thought that something like a new Hyundai i10 (which you can buy for £69 a month on a PCP) would be better for him, or if he doesn't want to have finance, then something like a Ford Ka, can be run for pennies, providing you again buy a good one in the 1st place! ;)

[Rigginsuk]

If a person is willing to give up on these cars because they all "have problems" then you really have to question it when they say they love 75's.
My ZS was in the garage just a few days after I bought it. £2000 later and all the problems, cylinder head replaced, HGF, valves replaced, cams, thermostat, radiator, all coolant hoses, starter motor, water pump and much much more fixed and it was such a fun, lovely car to drive. I was advised to scrap it but, I love these cars. Now I have a ZT v6 and it did the same as the 75 you're looking at. Cost me £45 to replace the 3 speed fan for a 2 speed fan and uprated gold resistor.
Not every problem breaks the bank and there is nearly enough info on this forum to do anything you want to with these cars. They are 10-15 year old cars. They're likely to have issues from time to time but what 15 year old make of car doesn't? Ford, Vauxhall, Citroen.....the list could go on.
These cars are awesome. You're either dedicated to them or not. :shrug:

[mrdoofa]

If a person is willing to give up on these cars because they all "have problems" then you really have to question it when they say they love 75's.
My ZS was in the garage just a few days after I bought it. £2000 later and all the problems, cylinder head replaced, HGF, valves replaced, cams, thermostat, radiator, all coolant hoses, starter motor, water pump and much much more fixed and it was such a fun, lovely car to drive. I was advised to scrap it but, I love these cars. Now I have a ZT v6 and it did the same as the 75 you're looking at. Cost me £45 to replace the 3 speed fan for a 2 speed fan and uprated gold resistor.
Not every problem breaks the bank and there is nearly enough info on this forum to do anything you want to with these cars. They are 10-15 year old cars. They're likely to have issues from time to time but what 15 year old make of car doesn't? Ford, Vauxhall, Citroen.....the list could go on.
These cars are awesome. You're either dedicated to them or not. :shrug:


I think it'd be a tad unfair to question his dedication to the car, but maybe that's due to me having the benefit of actually knowing him. I know for instance, that he is already investing all of his savings into the car (buying the car, taxing and insuring it). He's already going to have to borrow the petrol money, so as I'm sure you can see, it takes some dedication to make that kind of investment. You see, he is only a student, and as I'm sure you can appreciate the insurance on any V6 for a student is likely to be expensive, but that hasn't made him go out and buy a 1.0 pug 107, and unlike most students he is perfectly willing to forfeit the "student lifestyle" of booze and the such like just to have the car that he has been wanting to have for many years. The reason why he doesn't want to invest £2k into the car, is because he can't, if he could, trust me he most definitely would. He's been a rover fan for years, and a 75 fan for many years also, but he has to get it right, because if it breaks, he's left without transport, and without his pride and joy.

[smallheathlad]

I have a collection of 75's my first was a 2.0l. They are fantastic cars, however some of the maintenance bill can soon mount up. The car you have looked at has issues ... That rattle you could live with for a while. The real issue is the overheating. When I purchased my first one the low speed fan was not working so driving alone traffic free roads fine in traffic it overheated. I was lucky fitted a new fan and problem solved. No other damage had been caused.
The danger you have is that it has been overheating for a while causing other issues. I would suggest that he walks away from this car. There are better one's to be found at a much lower price