V6 still won't start

[ElaineH]

Had problems recently with wet electrics which have now dried out and all wipers, etc work okay. Coinciding with this the engine would not turn over but after several attempts would and continue to start until cold again. Have checked starter on bench and replaced contacts, all fine, power is getting to the ignition to starter ( thin wire) when ignition turned but when starter back in engine the car won't fire up. Have checked fuses, swapped matching relays but nothing!
I would assume that if it is a dodgy inhibitor why do I get power to the starter?
Will need to get a diagnostics done, ideally at home, anyone in Kent Medway area? Thanks for any help,

[SD1too]

.. ... when starter back in engine the car won't fire up.
You say that the engine won't "fire". Originally it wouldn't turn over so you have succeeded in getting the starter motor to work, yes?

Unless you've been on some long journeys recently I would begin by charging your battery overnight then try again. If the engine still doesn't fire, it could be that your fuel filter casing needs tightening up (a common inconvenience which reduces fuel pressure).

Simon

[ElaineH]

Thanks Simon, but no the starter won't turn in situ but is okay on the bench and I have power to the other ignition side of the starter so wiring etc seems okay. This is why I am now thinking inhibitor switch. Calling AA to see if they can help, thanks, Elaine

[Dallas]

When you say you had a water leak, what was leaking?

Do you have a sunroof, was the water ingress from the sunroof drains. Have you checked the EWS unit that sits on driverside under the drain tube. Water poors in and soaks the EWS unit, the contacts corrode and cause all sorts of electrical problems such as windows, doors, boot and non starting issues.

Its a small white/cream box, has a silver metal casing with two security screws. Easy enough to see, just pop it out and check the wire loom plug and inside circuit board (the unit unclips to open). I had similar problem where door locks would not operated, then car failed to start, turned out to be corroded and broken pins.

I see yours is also an auto, have you checked the sensor on the gearbox?

[BRI]

Might be a daft suggestion but how about earth between engine and body

[ElaineH]

Have not checked the Ews as drivers side was not apparently wet. AA hot wired from starter to battery and it fires up. If you push the black spade back on solenoid terminal it won't start even though it it picking up 12v when left off and the ignition turned. Seems like a short somewhere. Will start it by hot wiring and taking for diagnostics. Many thanks, Elaine

[SD1too]

.. AA hot wired from starter to battery and it fires up. If you push the black spade back on solenoid terminal it won't start even though it it picking up 12v when left off and the ignition turned.
Just to be clear Elaine, did the AA connect the positive battery terminal to the heavy current terminal on the starter motor? Then you turned the ignition key normally?

Can you hear the solenoid clicking when the black spade terminal is connected and the ignition key turned to 'start'?

We should be able to diagnose this one here Elaine, with a bit of luck. :}

Simon

[ElaineH]

The starter works fine on the bench and power reaches the small black wire / terminal when the key is turned but when the spade is connected back to the solenoid it won't start. No obvious clicking Either. The AA wired from the light side direct to the battery and it starts but not via the key. They have left the black spade off the solenoid and to start to get to a garage I will touch the wire onto battery thus bypassing the ignition switch. The Ews unit has not been checked but the drivers side never got wet from what I can see. AA suspect something is shorting out hence why it won't start on the key. Baffling but hopefully diagnostics will identify the problem. Beyond the cost of diagnostics it's not worth spending hundreds on even though the car only has 31.5 k miles from new. It is a 2.5 v6 auto conn se, I love the car but it's a case of cost vs value.

[SD1too]

OK, thanks for the explanation.
... power reaches the small black wire / terminal when the key is turned ..
Are you measuring this with a multimeter?

Simon

[COLVERT]

Works with jump leads direct to the starter ????


As posted previously earlier on, EARTH STRAP to the engine from the body of the car. Is that OK ??

[ElaineH]

OK, thanks for the explanation.

Are you measuring this with a multimeter?

Simon

Yes the AA done this and was 12v apparently. very weird.

[marinabrian]

It is possible the EWS is faulty if it has been wet ;)

The EWS is mounted on the drivers side A pillar above the bonnet release, behind the light switch.

It is about the size of a packet of 20 cigarettes and is secured with two TS30 5 point security Torx bits

http://www.transpondery.com/images/EWS3_BMW.jpg

The output from this is what supplies the starter motor circuit with 12V and it is possible one of the internal components has failed.

I can supply a replacement, however I would need the original unit to be posted to me in order that the data can be transferred to the replacement unit.

A cheap set of 5 point Torx bits can be found HERE (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5-SIDED-TORX-9PC-3-8-DRV-POINT-STAR-TAMPERPROOF-BIT-SET-TS10-TS50-HOLE-SET-26-6-/131979892363?hash=item1eba9d568b:g:a0YAAOSwHMJYDOB n)

Let me know if you need any asssitance.

Brian :D

[SD1too]

Colvert & MarinaBrian,

This is the very puzzling piece of evidence, don't you think:
... power reaches the small black wire / terminal when the key is turned but when the spade is connected back to the solenoid it won't start.
:shrug:

Simon

[marinabrian]

Colvert & MarinaBrian,

This is the very puzzling piece of evidence, don't you think:

:shrug:

Simon

12v is one thing but it drops to 0V upon cranking ie under load, so either an internal fault in the EWS, or a break in the wiring between the EWS and the starter motor.

Brian :D

[Dallas]

Elaine, the EWS unit is easy to locate, its worth a check.
Inform your garage to have a look, its situated just under the sunroof drain tube.

http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=60506&stc=1&d=1467733828

If faulty it may look like this.

http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=60652&stc=1&d=1468160608

[COLVERT]

Colvert & MarinaBrian,

This is the very puzzling piece of evidence, don't you think:

:shrug:

Simon

I was puzzled too. That's why I suggested the engine earth strap as the starter worked with Hot Wiring by the AA.

[murphyv310]

Hi.
It's not so weird as you might think. The small lead to the solenoid should have 12v on it when the key is turned to start the car, we all know that of course. As the OP has bench tested the starter we can rule it out, also as the starter turns OK in the car with 12v supplied directly to the solenoid then we can also rule out earths and the main feed.
So with the solenoid lead on the starter solenoid and the key turned to the start position we must then have zero volts.
It is obviously a high resistance in the circuit, it could be a badly crimped spade at the solenoid lead, high resistance inhibitor switch, high resistance mulitplug at the gearbox (crimping again) or the EWS or any other plug and socket in the circuit that has corroded by the water damage.
Happy hunting.

[SD1too]

So with the solenoid lead on the starter solenoid and the key turned to the start position we must then have zero volts.
It is obviously a high resistance in the circuit ...
Brilliant Trevor. Now why didn't I think of that? :o :getmecoat:

Simon

[COLVERT]

Sorry about this but----------

could the OP clear up one point for me ???

The AA hot wired the starter motor. Did he use TWO leads ???

The battery plus to the motor and the battery minus to the engine ??


Thanks in advance.---:icon_lol:

[ElaineH]

No just one wire to the positive battery terminal. The spade to the starter from the ignition is currently removed. The large cable to the starter motor is in place.

Thanks everyone for help, it is going for diagnostics today which will hopefully identify the problems. After that we will decide whether to spend what is likely to be too much money on it. It's a shame as the car is lovely, had it from new and only 31.5k miles! Too good to scrap but equally not worth spending hundreds on.

[Mike Noc]

Have you checked the ignition switch itself is working and the cable from the switch to the EWS is OK. Maybe the EWS isn't getting the start signal?

[SD1too]

... but equally not worth spending hundreds on.
Oh yes it is Elaine! :D ;)

When you get the result of your diagnostics, please will you report back to us before making any hasty decisions? For example, if they tell you that you need a new ECU at enormous cost, thank them for their advice, say that you'll think about it, then ask club trader MarinaBrian if he can help. He can do things which garages cannot. :}

Simon

[ElaineH]

The diagnostics from Apple MG is the EWS unit which is £205 and includes fixing the drivers side leak. Not cheap but reasonable. The alternator has also gone and this is £305 fitted, I know this is an awkward fit. We really appreciate all the help on here and special thanks to Brian who I know could have fixed the EWS for considerably less. If it was not for the alternator we would have chosen Brian but it is easier to get it all fixed under one roof.
Once the car is returned the next step will be to give it a clean and then sell it.
Thanks again to all.

[marinabrian]

The diagnostics from Apple MG is the EWS unit which is £205 and includes fixing the drivers side leak. Not cheap but reasonable. The alternator has also gone and this is £305 fitted, I know this is an awkward fit. We really appreciate all the help on here and special thanks to Brian who I know could have fixed the EWS for considerably less. If it was not for the alternator we would have chosen Brian but it is easier to get it all fixed under one roof.
Once the car is returned the next step will be to give it a clean and then sell it.
Thanks again to all.

Only cheaper by a small margin Steve........about £170 ;)

Strangely enough a YLE102330E alternator is £172.16+vat retail so about £100 to fit is reasonable.

I rather think you will be hanging on to it a little longer, as you will probably be disappointed in the level of interest in a 11 year old V6 sadly.

Still it does mean Elaine will get to enjoy her car for a bit longer ;)

Brian :D