Car Won't Start

[27matt]

Hi guys,

Wondering if anyone has some smart ideas to try out! I've had an iffy battery for a while, but a charge every now and again keeps it going.

I managed to leave the ignition on whilst getting fuel on Saturday, came back from paying at it wouldn't start :mad: some kind guys helped push it so we could bump start it - a nice charge on the way to Lincolnshire and all was fine for the rest of the day (although I decided to just get a new battery!).

This morning, go to get to work, it turns, fires and dies. Then turns over slowly....dead battery.

I've replaced the battery as I had one the same size in my Mini, but now it turns over and won't fire. I'm suspected FFS but seems to be a massive coincidence. I could have flooded it, but they should have evaporated and it still won't start.

Any way I can easily diagnose FFS?
Any clever tricks to try and get it started - I've a feeling once it starts once it will be fine, else its FFS. I'm going to get a FOC anyway (or a white one from ebay as that seems to be all that is available) as it can't harm to get it fitted asap anyway.

(engine is 1800 turbo and I doubt the clip has been done before.)

All ideas welcomed!

[roverbarmy]

I would remove the spark plugs and allow the engine to fully dry out. I've used a hair dryer to dry plugs in the past. Replace and try again. I also seem to remember that trying to start repeatedly with a bad battery can cause ECU problems or some such similar thing. Someone else will no doubt be along to advise.:shrug:
Mike

[27matt]

Good idea, I'll do that for 24 hours.

I just tried to start it again, it cranks over a couple of times, fires and then that's it, just spins over :(

[T-Cut]

Any way I can easily diagnose FFS?


Other than a physical check of the filter module, I don't think there's a simple way to do it.

However, I'm told that the 1.8 fuel rail has a Schrader type valve like the KV6. If it has, then a mechnical tyre gauge on the valve may indicate low delivery pressure. It should show at least 50psi and rather less if there's FFS. You'll have to hold the pressure gauge in position while an assistant turns on the ignition - without turning the starter obviously. The pump will only run for a few seconds so it has to be quick and there could be petrol spray (!!).

TC

[27matt]

Thanks TC,

I don't think I've got a mechanical gauge, only a cheap digital one unfortunately.

There is no harm in checking for FFS and fitting the clip anyway I guess, just a pain as I'm having issues with the the car too.

I don't suppose anyone has a device for releasing/tightening the filter locking ring they want to lend me?!

[COLVERT]

I think if you spray some cold start into the air intake and it starts OK I think this indicates no fuel pressure. ( cos it won't start up on fresh air. )

[27matt]

Mystery solved!

In the second most coincidental thing of the week (the first being our 216 catching fire, which we concluded must have been a cigarette butt or something sucked up into the bonnet insulation- no harm done to the rest of the car or my wife thankfully), as soon as I replaced the battery which had been causing my starting problems, I did indeed have FFS.

Took today off work (as I still want to give the Coupe a looking over) to look at the car, got a can of easy start from the motor factor over the road and tried to start the car - it ran for half a second then died. Turned it over whilst spraying the easy start in and it ran on that, as soon as we stopped, it died - no fuel then!

I'd already suspected FFS so had already got the rear seat out (that's no fun!) but didn't want to take the filter out the tank unless necessary. I had nothing on hand to make a removal tool with so gently tapped the ring off with a hammer and chisel, marking its location so I could roughly torque it as a temporary measure.

Pulled the filter up to see this:

https://4oejqq-ch3301.files.1drv.com/y4mdv1kVsCmamvnLl8HUgG-RLyNm8N8mPiFpQXQIKT5l6RN6uY8g1hY-wC1T6FEi1vpew2Mat1hb-nftWJxodOEkhJ9EYmfendBSjXWHSaAuFlczTp-XP_S9kqqcL1KvnZXZ8g_CWKp0ksvCv6KjwNfCcAdKO0H06Fw0Q Go8yxS-9-mQ9O6HYjYY8c2lqEikw-XjFhT1w4n1iFYcn7G0bLbfg?width=660&height=371&cropmode=none

Well and truly coming apart. Took me a while to figure out that the reason I couldn't twist it back together was because i had to push it down first to close it up. Once I worked out how to get the seal back round the tank outlet it all went together nicely :}.

Unfortunatly the FOC seems to be NLA, Brown and Gammons isn't far from me and had "low stock" on the website, which turned out to be no stock when I asked them!

Have ordered this kit from ebay, so will leave the seat and carpet up and hpoefuilly fit the clip at the weekend.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/p/Rover-75-MG-ZT-Petrol-Filter-Clip-Kit-Wjc000230-With-The-Essential-Viton-Seal/649107592

Now just to check the alternator output to ensure its charging ok and I'm not swapping the battery out for now reason - it looks like the original so has had a good 11 years or so of use, but the indicator window is still green....

Thanks for your help!

[T-Cut]

You will find the relevant parts of this HowTo useful.
HowTo: http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=9108

TC

[COLVERT]

Mystery solved!

In the second most coincidental thing of the week (the first being our 216 catching fire, which we concluded must have been a cigarette butt or something sucked up into the bonnet insulation- no harm done to the rest of the car or my wife thankfully), as soon as I replaced the battery which had been causing my starting problems, I did indeed have FFS.

Took today off work (as I still want to give the Coupe a looking over) to look at the car, got a can of easy start from the motor factor over the road and tried to start the car - it ran for half a second then died. Turned it over whilst spraying the easy start in and it ran on that, as soon as we stopped, it died - no fuel then!

I'd already suspected FFS so had already got the rear seat out (that's no fun!) but didn't want to take the filter out the tank unless necessary. I had nothing on hand to make a removal tool with so gently tapped the ring off with a hammer and chisel, marking its location so I could roughly torque it as a temporary measure.

Pulled the filter up to see this:

https://4oejqq-ch3301.files.1drv.com/y4mdv1kVsCmamvnLl8HUgG-RLyNm8N8mPiFpQXQIKT5l6RN6uY8g1hY-wC1T6FEi1vpew2Mat1hb-nftWJxodOEkhJ9EYmfendBSjXWHSaAuFlczTp-XP_S9kqqcL1KvnZXZ8g_CWKp0ksvCv6KjwNfCcAdKO0H06Fw0Q Go8yxS-9-mQ9O6HYjYY8c2lqEikw-XjFhT1w4n1iFYcn7G0bLbfg?width=660&height=371&cropmode=none

Well and truly coming apart. Took me a while to figure out that the reason I couldn't twist it back together was because i had to push it down first to close it up. Once I worked out how to get the seal back round the tank outlet it all went together nicely :}.

Unfortunatly the FOC seems to be NLA, Brown and Gammons isn't far from me and had "low stock" on the website, which turned out to be no stock when I asked them!

Have ordered this kit from ebay, so will leave the seat and carpet up and hpoefuilly fit the clip at the weekend.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/p/Rover-75-MG-ZT-Petrol-Filter-Clip-Kit-Wjc000230-With-The-Essential-Viton-Seal/649107592

Now just to check the alternator output to ensure its charging ok and I'm not swapping the battery out for now reason - it looks like the original so has had a good 11 years or so of use, but the indicator window is still green....

Thanks for your help!

That GREEN indicator window is telling you that the cell the window is in is OK.

That doesn't necessarily mean the rest of the battery is working correctly though.----:eek:

[27matt]

Everything finished off now.

Changed the battery and car has been running fine for a few days.

Clip for fuel filter turned up very quickly, so fitting that was first job this morning.

Ebay kit included a new O ring, I was going to keep this spare as the filter was clearly working fine, but filter was in the below position and I was struggling to tighten it further. Decided to take it apart and replace the O ring in case that was causing problems.

https://spwj5q-ch3301.files.1drv.com/y4mqzM6kV88owYH3ziyWF77I83grqc_-WtBK9kCla7ZYVWFu4_LHQrlBQsv7WkzziufiTMW8WcHqa00EIE g5MCd1pFxYJiA_kzYd8sx9B0Y6FBG3J8NHzL-7a1WJVuUlWcKG2huEhuEmQd4xtwlA2DHIAxNEDqksCyDZiGvv0 jaUQ8f6vC_krw2nhh3RN-P1p3JoLdrEV1aNGdkEE3Hyh6gug?width=660&height=372&cropmode=none

O ring was quickly replaced, old one was a bit floppy but OK. Filter back together, still couldn't get it passed the above position! Looks like there a small ridge in the plastic to get it past to (supposedly) lock it in place. Enlisted the help of my wife and some water pump pliers whilst also trying to ensure we didn't damage anything....after too much time, success!

https://tloxia-ch3301.files.1drv.com/y4m4ivq7OOBOiAzLLyFf_Oh_bWt4njALekhkRXwo54Fs6yilU2 Atk6414lw97sxiKrKe4vIa6ooJaBY2utryfL7TAR5QfPJZXo3u fcucrwSGovjK83kx4zBJyn1CPP52RN-Q94_BL09z6loNnCEqoMCfpBCo6dGKc880c7QEg20uW9YlNhTUv nYObfSOOgbU_ycY-lukTMjINYkikCdK7LASA?width=660&height=371&cropmode=none

All back together, seat back in place much quicker than it came out...on to the next job!