How toxic is your car exhaust - BBC News

[Darcydog]

Apologies for re-igniting this debate - but this BBC report makes some excellent points - and concludes that once again Government is getting it wrong.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/how-toxic-is-your-car-exhaust

It concludes:-

A diesel can be better for NOx than an older petrol car

Older diesels can beat newer ones on emission levels

The European testing regime failed

Euro 4, 5, 6 designations are misleading

The London Low Emission Zone that is to be introduced in 2019 (and likely to be emulated by other towns and city’s) will penalise Euro 4 cars and older. BUT! - at the same time it will permit the Euro 6 diesels like the Nissan Qashquai N-connecta DCI CVT to pump out NOx at 18 times the European Limit.

In summarises - “It all seems very arbitrary”

- It does indeed.....

Good article - worth a read.

[Sprinter]

Interesting reading and well explained.

Auto makers rather than trying to meet the spirit of the regulations are trying to meet the letter of the law.

The above quote from the article is the flaw in the arugment for greener vehicles.

[rustymotor]

Looks the like the link isn't working not for me anyways..

[Tim]

It needs an investigation and action, car makers build to the minimum, as mentioned in the article and its been going on for a few years.

What will happen however is the industry will try and belittle the results saying they know best, which they don't.

[Jim Jamieson]

Looks the like the link isn't working not for me anyways..


I think there’s a conspiracy to stop us reading about how low our emissions really are.

[J1MBO]

Saw the article earlier this morning, made for very interesting reading.

Search for it on the BBC website it's still on view but the interactive element seems to be causing an issue when linking.

Jim

[solarsailor]

This one works.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/how_toxic_is_your_car_exhaust

[rustymotor]

Have read the article now thanks for the link..nice read.

Interesting how the Nissan Qashqai has over taken the Fiesta as the most popular car to buy and it's a huge polluter :duh:

[Astraeus]

Let's not kid ourselves, most of these vehicle decisions are about raising money and have nothing at all to do with emissions. Just wait and see what happens to electric cars when numbers start being a problem for revenue earning. There will be a new method of taxing either the electricity ( how they will do that will be interesting) or bang, road duty will start being applied to fill the void.

As for the petrol v diesel issue I would far rather stand behind my V6 running on LPG than my pals new Renault Capture!

As for lorries.....:duh:


Like many things in life we get the information the government of the day wants us to get....not the whole truth..

Chris

[topman]

I think it's always a balancing act between which form of emissions is the least worst, making sure the economy works and tax. No one likes paying but we all need the things that it pays for.

[MSS]

I think it's always a balancing act between which form of emissions is the least worst, making sure the economy works and tax. No one likes paying but we all need the things that it pays for.

I agree. The other thing most people don't allow for is that decisions are taken on the basis of the best available information and understanding at the time. Mankind's understanding of pollutants and their effect on the human body improves each year but I suspect is still rather incomplete.

Only those who know very little ever claim to know a lot!

[roverbarmy]

Have you ever seen a diesel train start up or leave the station? :rolleyes: Environmetally friendly to take the train? Not the diesels!:getmecoat:

[championdaddy]

My 190 went through its test apparently showing ZERO CO2 emissions.

Cant be bad for a 16 year old car.

Who needs newer cars.

[rustymotor]

MG John, interesting, have you ever done anything with venturi systems?

[Darcydog]

As for the petrol v diesel issue I would far rather stand behind my V6 running on LPG than my pals new Renault Capture!


Like many things in life we get the information the government of the day wants us to get....not the whole truth..

Chris

I live in hope that the truth of how the “Green Taliban” pressured the Government of the day to scrap the the LPG Powershift Scheme in favour of tax incentives for diesel vehicles finally comes out.

When you look at what the particulate and NOx levels would be if we had LPG and CNG powered vehicles on our urban streets instead of diesels - more often than not with blocked EGR valves - it makes you realise what a monumentally stupid decision it was to enhance diesel sales by way of tax incentives when a far far cleaner option was available.

[Darcydog]

Green issues. Almost certainly, I've planted more Oaks, Elms, Willows. Birches etc than any current or past leaders of the so called Green Party.

"Green Taliban" so keen to accept without question "expert" opinion which aligns with their own biased and ignorant agenda.

For over a quarter of a century I have owned and managed my own mini Nature Reserve. Sadly the English and Wych Elms thrive until they get to a certain maturity and size when they die back. Shoots reappearing later from the underground roots. Two species of Elm in my patch are resistant and are now over forty years old. Sad that these magnificent Elms are no longer a commonplace feature of the once very Green and Pleasant. There is a magnificent Elm must be over forty foot high alongside the main entrance to Gloucester Royal Hospital. Peregrine Falcons nesting successfully in the main Hospital Tower Block for many years.

Meantime I shall continue to get about in my over penalised "Feelthy" 1.8 and 2.0 Litre Rover and MG Petrol Turbos....

Those we entrust to this Nation's and indeed the Environment's well being clearly not fit for purpose.

So very annoying.

Oh how I agree with you John. I consider myself to be a true “old fashioned environmentalist. And as someone very interested in environmental issues many years ago I went to see a talk by “Dr Caroline Lucas - Climate Change Expert in the Green Party.

She spoke tolal spherical objects and she and her minions trucked no dissenters!

I was shocked and checked out what she had her PhD in as I could not believe she was any sort of Scientist!

Check her out on Wikipedia !!!

She does have a Doctorate - it’s from Exeter and the Subject is Romantic Elizabethan Liturature.

Little wonder then that we have ended up where we are with people like this masquerading as Climate/environmental “experts”.

[rustymotor]

Whats happening in Sheffield is a scandal..taking down a 150 year old oak tree..

TV presenter Vernon Kay is among campaigners who have appealed to Sheffield City Council to re-think pavement resurfacing plans on Vernon Road and save the much-loved oak. Yorkshire Post (http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/our-region/south-yorkshire/campaigner-climbs-150-year-old-sheffield-vernon-oak-tree-to-save-it-from-the-chop-1-8807373)

[Darcydog]

Whats happening in Sheffield is a scandal..taking down a 150 year old oak tree..

TV presenter Vernon Kay is among campaigners who have appealed to Sheffield City Council to re-think pavement resurfacing plans on Vernon Road and save the much-loved oak. Yorkshire Post (http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/our-region/south-yorkshire/campaigner-climbs-150-year-old-sheffield-vernon-oak-tree-to-save-it-from-the-chop-1-8807373)

We had similar near here - there is a beautiful tree line road between Wimborne and Blandford. It reminds me of the lovely tree lined roads you get in France.

Some idiotic committee proposed cutting the trees down because they were too close to the road. Their fear was that a driver could leave the road and hit one of the trees..... :duh:

Thankfully common sense prevailed and nothing happened.

On a very local note - we have a wooden footbridge nearby that had chicken wire laid down on it as it was slippery when wet. This worked fine for decades - they simply replaced the wire mesh every couple of years or so.

Then - in an act of gross stupidity the Council put down large black plastic sheets that are about 1.5 cm thick with anti slip tread. They have just about covered part of the bridge.

The problem is that this holds muck and water against the wood and the wood is now riddled with mold.

You can see the white mycelial threads growing out from under the plastic.

Any surveyor will tell you wood rot sets in when damp is allowed to get into wood and good ventilation is needed to keep it at bay.

These muppets have done exactly the opposite.

[MSS]

Is it only me who feels that use of the term "Green Taliban" to describe caring fellow humans who, for genuine reasons believe something different to yourselves, is in extremely poor taste?

Strange, that it is always the few who pretend to represent the pinnacle of knowledge and wisdom that regularly use this term on the forum.

:shrug::shrug:

[Darcydog]

Is it only me who feels that use of the term "Green Taliban" to describe caring fellow humans who, for genuine reasons believe something different to yourselves, is in extremely poor taste?

Strange, that it is always the few who pretend to represent the pinnacle of knowledge and wisdom that regularly use this term on the forum.

:shrug::shrug:

It is a term that I think is very apt when dealing with a group of people who label me a “Denier” because I do not subscribe to THEIR belief that CO2 is the demon gas they, and the likes of Caroline Lucas, with all the authority of a PhD in Romantic Elizabethan Liturature try to make out that it is.

It is EXACTLY because we have had lies and pseudo science put about by those now labelled the Green Taliban that we are in the mess we are now with NOx and particulates levels as high as they are.

They may well feel that their reasons are genuine - but when you see the vitriol and bile they are capable of throwing at anyone who dares to question their beliefs - then the Green Taliban label is far more accurate than the one they use - Denier.

[rustymotor]

You could blame George Osborne for that must be Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/environment/blog/2012/oct/19/environmental-taliban-george-osborne) readers :}

[Darcydog]

He was certainly the first politician to openly use the term. It certainly became widespread after the leak of the damning email data from the UofEA CRU.

People question the data a lot more now - and as each year goes on “the pause” gets longer and the alarming predictions of the computer models ever more fanciful.

[minimutly]

I'm still waiting for someone to debunk the cat converter myth - it was proven years ago that lean burn (rather than rich/lean/rich/lean cycle required by cats) releases less pollutants.
Now we will have children grown up with issues caused by platinum or rhodium lodged in their bodies, not to mention more Co2' converted from Co by these cats....

[SD1too]

My 190 went through its test apparently showing ZERO CO2 emissions.
I don’t understand how that can be possible Paul. :shrug: Are you sure that it wasn’t CO? Did you request a print-out of the emissions test?

Simon

[minimutly]

Reply to SD1's watchamacallit - the line at the bottom of your post - recently read up on the history of the jet engine. It was originally built and developed by Rover, but they swapped the work with Rolls Royce for some lorry engines or something! What could hve been eh?

[arnosvale65]

The street where I live has three(!) Nissan quashqui'S all bought on PCP plans by young couples to "protect" their offspring. They will take absolutely no notice of this.

[SD1too]

... it was proven years ago that lean burn (rather than rich/lean/rich/lean cycle required by cats) releases less pollutants.
Well, I'm not sure that it was less pollutants Huw. i think that the argument was that the same result could be achieved using lean burn technology.
Now we will have children grown up with issues caused by platinum or rhodium lodged in their bodies ..
Don't forget that those elements are catalysts which, by definition, enable the chemical reaction but are not affected by it. I take that to mean that they remain in the converter which I'd say is confirmed by the money which is forthcoming should you surrender one to a scrap metal dealer. ;)
...not to mention more Co2 converted from Co by these cats....
There's no problem with carbon dioxide. Without it, life on earth would cease.
Reply to SD1's watchamacallit - the line at the bottom of your post - recently read up on the history of the jet engine. It was originally built and developed by Rover, but they swapped the work with Rolls Royce for some lorry engines or something! What could hve been eh?
Thanks Huw! I'm pleased to hear that you've noticed my "signature".

Simon

[Saga Lout]

I'm still waiting for someone to debunk the cat converter myth - it was proven years ago that lean burn (rather than rich/lean/rich/lean cycle required by cats) releases less pollutants.
Now we will have children grown up with issues caused by platinum or rhodium lodged in their bodies, not to mention more Co2' converted from Co by these cats....
All of Denise's long term problems are as a result of Platinum based Chemo therapies, they have given her the brain damage she has and taken most of her sight. Today's children have all of this, and idiot parents that drive them everywhere and let McDonalds feed them.

[rustymotor]

Today's children have all of this, and idiot parents that drive them everywhere and let McDonalds feed them.

Amen to that, I was explaining to my kids that through my entire school life I never once was driven there or back..had to make my own way always and didn't know what fast food was..no mobile phone, no computer no internet..No wonder so many kids are over weight..unfit and lazy for the most part.

[Nick Greg]

Today's children have all of this, and idiot parents that drive them everywhere and let McDonalds feed them.

Amen to that, I was explaining to my kids that through my entire school life I never once was driven there or back..had to make my own way always and didn't know what fast food was..no mobile phone, no computer no internet..No wonder so many kids are over weight..unfit and lazy for the most part.

Dead right. And we had real winters tehn, a right beggar when you wore shorts walking to school.

[rustymotor]

There's a fair bit of it around these parts John, but no worries they all get a mobility scooter when they can no longer walk and in some cases a new car very sad..:duh:

[steve-45]

There's a fair bit of it around these parts John, but no worries they all get a mobility scooter when they can no longer walk and in some cases a new car very sad..:duh:

well the dealers would be upset if they lost their MOBILITY sales .......

[HarryM1BYT]

Dead right. And we had real winters tehn, a right beggar when you wore shorts walking to school.

Same here, I had to walk almost everywhere, thought nothing of it and enjoyed it.

I think I remember getting my first pair of long trousers, when I began at 'the big school.

[andymc]

The rise in severe obesity is a serious problem, but this isn't because of a massive rise in laziness, gluttony etc. Even people who for years thought they were doing the right thing by using low fat alternatives ("spread" instead of butter etc) are now finding out that these things contain huge amounts of extra salt and/or sugar, which the food manufacturers usually claim are necessary "to maintain flavour". Sugar, in particular, is physically addictive, and have you seen all the things for which it can be an ingredient? Pasta sauce, salad dressing, bread(!), ready meals, baked beans, breakfast cereals - not just the ones aimed at kids, even the ordinary stuff like cornflakes or muesli. Never mind all the junk food - the cheapest food is invariably of the worst quality, with high levels of salt, sugar and/or fat put into everything. And who has to buy the cheapest food?

In our house, we rarely eat junk food - I think I've been in a chippy maybe three times in the past six years, and the last time I crossed the threshold of a McDonalds was in 1992. There are almost never any biscuits in the house, and other items like crisps or chocolate are moderate indulgences. Nevertheless, if we didn't take the time to check labels and put stuff back on the shelves when the sugar or salt levels are too high, our diet would be slowly poisoning us.

[HarryM1BYT]

There's a fair bit of it around these parts John, but no worries they all get a mobility scooter

Got a scooter here and a stair lift too, left overs from my earlier partner before she passed away. I did think to remove the lift and sell it on and the scooter, but thought they might prove useful so here they stay. The lift came in a few weeks ago when I was suffering serious vertigo, almost entirely gone now - the scooter I take out every few months, when I go in the local main street to collect a couple of 20Kg bags of dry dog biscuits. 20Kg is just too heavy to carry far and there is no where to park if I were to take the car, so the scooter works fine.

[HarryM1BYT]

well the dealers would be upset if they lost their MOBILITY sales .......

They (car dealers and other mobility needs dealers) seem to make massive profits on what they sell. Everything marked as for the disabled, attracts a massive premium.

[mileshawk56]

I have a real problem with fat/overweight/obese whatever people because 1. It pains me to see the abuse of the human body, a beautiful machine developed over thousands of years ruined by greed and sloth. We are physically capable of so much, and many are ruined by over eating, and this can only be done if they have the money to do it and they choose to do it. It has nothing to do with food manufactures "evil" intent. The sugary/salty etc foods have been on the market for over 100 years and obesity is a new condition. People choose what they eat and more importantly how much and money is needed for food and a check of food prices in a supermarket will show anyone that the "factory foods" are the most expensive. If you eat a packet of Jammy dodges or Maryland Chocolate Chip cookies every day and drink Pints of Lemonade/Cola etc you will get fat and fatter and fatter. Laziness/Greed/Selfishness produced this epidemic and I object strongly to pandering to it by medical procedures which take away from those who are really ill. And I do not include those who are obese as a result of body malfunctions in my diatribe who do really deserve our best wishes. Chris S.

[mileshawk56]

I have a real problem with fat/overweight/obese whatever people because 1. It pains me to see the abuse of the human body, a beautiful machine developed over thousands of years ruined by greed and sloth. We are physically capable of so much, and many are ruined by over eating, and this can only be done if they have the money to do it and they choose to do it. It has nothing to do with food manufactures "evil" intent. The sugary/salty etc foods have been on the market for over 100 years and obesity is a new condition. People choose what they eat and more importantly how much and money is needed for food and a check of food prices in a supermarket will show anyone that the "factory foods" are the most expensive. If you eat a packet of Jammy dodges or Maryland Chocolate Chip cookies every day and drink Pints of Lemonade/Cola etc you will get fat and fatter and fatter. Laziness/Greed/Selfishness produced this epidemic and I object strongly to pandering to it by medical procedures which take away from those who are really ill. And I do not include those who are obese as a result of body malfunctions in my diatribe who do really deserve our best wishes. Chris S.

[SD1too]

... obesity is a new condition.
Yes Chris; it's a lifestyle copied from America along with everything else. It's time for us to copy their assertiveness and rediscover our national pride.
Laziness/Greed/Selfishness produced this epidemic ...
Yes; laziness because delicious and nutritious meals can be cooked for less than the price of a salty, fattening 'ready meal'. Greed because we don't need a bucket of tea or a sack full of popcorn or a 'buy one get one free' temptation.

What's the selfishness point though Chris?

Simon

[MSS]

........... It's time for us to copy their assertiveness and rediscover our national pride.
...........

Simon

Please Simon, no, not the first part. Second part, yes, but in a more British style. :}

[SD1too]

Please Simon, no, not the first part. Second part, yes, but in a more British style. :}
:laughing2:
You're absolutely right, sorry. What was I thinking? :duh:

Simon :D

[mileshawk56]

Their action has all sorts of problems, Health problems, mobility problems size problems and I can think of a dozen more- selfish when you only consider your own wishes with no regard as how they impinge on other peoples lives. I accept we are all selfish to some degree but this problem is so over the top in the "me,me,me and don't dare point the finger at me" attitude prevalent. I don't travel by plane anymore but in the event of a emergency I would be royal P---ed off if some fatty was stuck in the exit and me and wife and children suffocated because of their selfishness, greed etc. I think that's it from me, I'm boring myself! Chris.S And I was well off topic.

[T-Cut]

Sorry, wrong thread.