V6 Petrol Rail leak... advice please

[grout20]

Hi all

I spotted what looks like a weeping O ring on my fuel rail last night and took a quick photo (hopefully attached)

I've searched on here and have an idea on the fiddly technique to take apart the connector (I think it was an old Arctic thread... thanks!) but can I do the job without major disassembly of the car?

Has anyone done the same connector /area "in situ"?

I'm sure if this one has decided to weep then I need to check/consider doing others in the rail, but thought I'd ask your advice on just this one.

Haven't even removed the top cover yet.... just gathering advice, encouragement and courage!

Thanks in advance

John

https://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=72206&d=1517477950

[Arctic]

Hi John.
I can not see anything from the photo' except a light brown stain? lift the engine cover off and have a really good look, can you smell fuel? you may find it is one of the breather pipes if so then it is an easy replacement, take another closer look and report back to us cheers Arctic

[grout20]

Hi John.
I can not see anything from the photo' except a light brown stain? lift the engine cover off and have a really good look, can you smell fuel? you may find it is one of the breather pipes if so then it is an easy replacement, take another closer look and report back to us cheers Arctic


Hi and thanks

Yes I can smell and see a drip of petrol ... it is causing the dark black stain under and to the left of the light brown stain (rubbish picture I know! 😊 )

I'll take the cover off and have a good look. Would be good if it's a breather pipe... that sounds simpler than an O ring!

Will check and advise tomorrow

Thanks again
John

[Lord of Hog]

O-rings are easy enough. Just get some decent Viton ones. They're available from a respected trader on a certain internet auction site, either complete sets or specific locations. Just don't be afraid to use a bit of brute force to make sure the new one is located correctly. It's not as fragile as you might think.

[grout20]

Hi John..... take another closer look and report back to us cheers Arctic


Hi again

OK .... cover taken off, and turning the ignition on the dripping starts, I guess as the fuel pressure builds up. Turn on the engine and the drips increase. Yikes! :eek:

It looks like the drips originate from the joint between the silver (interconnecting) pipe and the black rail, where it all joins together with the angled clip thingy. See photos attached.

So ......to access that joint and renew the O rings on the interconnect pipe.... do I disconnect all the electric connections, carefully remove that angled clip thingy, undo the fuel feed pipe at the other end, and remove the whole rail ... bringing with it with the 3 complete injectors? (Terrible grammar but hope that makes sense! )

Or ....is there another way .... e.g can you just pull the disconnected fuel rail UPwards which disconnects the rail from the top of the injectors but leaves the rest behind?.

Or .... is there a fiendish way that you guys know about just to get at the interconnecting pipe O ring without more disassembling?

I'll renew all disturbed O rings.... but at this time don't want to remove / renew EVERY O ring in the whole system unless I have to. Probably a later job.... especially those on the "back" fuel rail !

And... finally.... presumably as long as the ignition is off, the fuel pressure will "disappear", in a fountain of fuel probably, when I undo the first O ring joint?

I've never removed injectors or fuel O rings so all advice welcome.

Thanks in advance !
John

https://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=72232&d=1517587314


https://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=72233&d=1517587332


https://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=72234&d=1517587344

[grout20]

O-rings are easy enough. Just get some decent Viton ones. .....

Thanks.

Yes, ordered some Viton ones for a couple of the suspected areas, but I don't think I've covered all areas now I've looked closer! (See previous post :duh: )

Kind regards

John

[Astraeus]

Make sure that the bottom of the metal clip is actually home properly when re assembling buddy

Chris

[grout20]

Make sure that the bottom of the metal clip is actually home properly when re assembling buddy
Chris


Thanks Chris, thanks for the tip, sounds like you've been there!

It is possible to take apart that joint under the clip to replace the O ring without disturbing the rest of the rail/injectors, or is it best to remove the complete rail to get access?

Tia
John

.

[grout20]

Hi all... any more tips re the interconnect pipe O ring replacement method.

Re earlier post, can I get at it without removing all the pipework, injectors etc?

Tia

John

[T-Cut]

Re earlier post, can I get at it without removing all the pipework, injectors etc?

Looking at it https://rimmerbros.com/Item--i-GRID001941

I doubt you'll separate the two rails without slackening the mounting bolts on the front one. Then lift it off the injectors so the left end can swing out. Having said that, I've never done it myself.

TC

[Arctic]

Hi John.
These photo's below may help with removal of the fuel line/rail without removing injectors etc.

You should be able to prise out the securing clips which hold the rail to the injectors.

Use a this blade screw driver.
https://i.imgur.com/O2WmZgZm.jpg1

https://i.imgur.com/bxN5XVOm.jpg2

https://i.imgur.com/VEV6pZfm.jpg3

remove each clip to the front injectors.
https://i.imgur.com/1OvnHR5m.jpg4

You should then be able to lift the rail enough to remove the metal fuel pipe.

You do need to remove the two nuts also holding the rail, I know these photo's show the rail and pipes already off the car but hopefully it gives you the idea, that may help.
https://i.imgur.com/a8czfkum.jpg5

Here you can see a little barbed fitting holding in another metal clip which will help remove the fuel pipe so you can get to the O-ring further down the line.
https://i.imgur.com/BjGpvKgl.jpg6

Push the barb fitting then pry up the metal securing clip.
https://i.imgur.com/my9Et8Pl.jpg7

https://i.imgur.com/ofdnndAl.jpg8

https://i.imgur.com/XVB2jIBl.jpg9

The fuel pipe is held in by another metal clip which you need to tease open to pull the pipe free.
https://i.imgur.com/1QX0Pshl.jpg10

Prise the clip outwards to release the fuel pipe.
https://i.imgur.com/CeySky8l.jpg11

https://i.imgur.com/5z5Z1dyl.jpg12

https://i.imgur.com/KOd67J2l.jpg13

With the pipe removed you will see the seal inside.
https://i.imgur.com/poVKSMkl.jpg14

https://i.imgur.com/j27YhKpl.jpg15

Below is a close up of the clips holding the fuel pipe etc I hope the photo's help you cheers Arctic.
https://i.imgur.com/pa88dHdl.jpg16

https://i.imgur.com/UDWmJrLl.jpg17

https://i.imgur.com/elVGR7wl.jpg18

[trikey]

Sealing the V6 fuel rails is a right pain in the ar$e, new O rings and plenty of lube (Fnarr Fnarr) And you may have half a chance of being leak free.

[grout20]

Hi John.
These photo's below may help with removal of the fuel line/rail without removing injectors etc.
...
You should be able to prise out the securing clips which hold the rail to the injectors.
...
remove each clip to the front injectors
...
You should then be able to lift the rail enough to remove the metal fuel pipe.
...
You do need to remove the two nuts also holding the rail... ... but hopefully it gives you the idea, that may help.
...
... I hope the photo's help you cheers Arctic.



Brilliant info.... thanks!

If I read it right, I can see now the front fuel rail can be detached and lifted off the injector rather than having to remove the whole injector(s).

And then, by removing the two front fuel rail securing bolts, it looks like there may be enough movement to allow access to that leaking O ring on the Interconnect pipe.

I've also ordered O rings for the injectors so I can renew the "top" injector O ring.

The other tip I picked up was to remove fuse 20 to isolate the fuel pump.

Thanks again, fingers crossed... lube poised, Trikey! :eek: .... and I'll update to let you know how it goes.

All I want now is a nice, heated, spacious double garage..... please... :D

Cheers

John

[grout20]

Hi all.... an update on a successful cure to my Fuel Rail leak shown in earlier photos.

With the aid of the photos and tips provided by some wonderful folk on here, it was fairly straightforward... albeit a bit tense at times.

In summary...

- Fuse No 20 taken out so the fuel pump had no power.... just in case.
- I (probably should have) disconnected the battery, but I didn't.
- I (could have) run the engine after removing the fuse until it conked out, but didn't as in my enthusiasm I started dismantling before I remembered I could have !
- removed engine cover. Marked the coils/leads so indicate Left, Middle and Right
- unplugged and removed the coils so they were out of the way
- disconnected the wires and slid off the clips on the top of each injector
- undid the two retaining bolts that hold the front fuel rail on
- with a hair dryer, warmed up the left hand corner where the interconnecting pipe joins the front fuel rail. This was to avoid snapping off the small vertical retaining lug when removing the metal right angled clip. See photo
- pulled the ends of the breather pipes out to give me more room to work with
- gently prised up and removed that metal clip (see Arctics photos)
- being very brave ... :} .... firmly pulled the fuel rail up off the 3 injectors. Small amount of petrol came out, but not a lot.
- the rail was now free of the injectors, and there was enough movement to allow the rail to be pulled towards me, off the interconnecting pipe (as the metal clip was not there to hold it all together) See photo.
- a very sorry looking O ring was found on the end of the pipe (see photo ... the offending O ring is on top of the rag on the right) No wonder it was leaking...
- a new O ring, with a smear of vaseline on, put on the end of the pipe
- 3 new O rings ... one for the top of each injector
- 1 new O ring fitted in the End Cap, on the end of the fuel rail.
- I didn't need to remove the joint at the right hand end of the fuel rail ... where the main fuel pipe feed comes in ... as there was enough movement already to allow the work on the left hand end (make sense?) If I had to undo that joint as well, I had a new O ring ready.
- refitting everything was a reverse of above. Not tense at all and almost enjoyable ! :D

Put fuse 20 back in. Turned the ignition on a couple of times so the fuel pump could build up pressure. No leaks. Started first time. Happy bunny!

I've got the remaining O Ring Set in reserve now for when others decide to weep !

Hope the above helps someone else. Thanks again for everyone's previous advice.

I love my car again :D .... now for those other jobs..... :eek:

Happy Roving

John

https://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=72329&d=1518481884


https://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=72330&d=1518481896


https://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=72331&d=1518481970

[Arctic]

Hi John
Great news nice to hear you are up and running again, and thank s for reporting back it all helps others in the future cheers Arctic. ;)

[KWIL]

John,

Well done, the only comment I would make is the use of vaseline as a lubricant, having "in another life" tested the reaction of various rubbers with vaseline, I would seek a more appropriate material, probaly a silicon grease.

[grout20]

John,
Well done, the only comment I would make is the use of vaseline as a lubricant, having "in another life" tested the reaction of various rubbers with vaseline, I would seek a more appropriate material, probaly a silicon grease.

Hi Kwil

Yes, I wasn't sure about this myself.

Other tips were to use (engine) oil, but a mechanically minded chap I trust advised using vaseline, I think because it is petroleum based therefore might "get lost" easier as the fuel goes through.

Kinda made sense! :shrug::}

Thanks, and regards

John

[T-Cut]

Well done, the only comment I would make is the use of vaseline as a lubricant, having "in another life" tested the reaction of various rubbers with vaseline, I would seek a more appropriate material, probably a silicon grease.

Some rubbers, both natural and synthetic, will swell from contact with hydrocarbons (Vaseline, engine oil, petrol, diesel, etc.) but others don't. You have to know what you're dealing with. A bad example is the OEM o-rings used for the diesel intercooler elbow. No idea what they were made of, but I'm sure MGR knew what they were doing putting them here. So balancing service life against cost they decided there was money to be made selling regular replacements at £7 a pair. But if a hydrocarbon resistant type (eg Viton) had been used, most diesels would still be running on the originals.

So, always best to check O-Ring Compatibility: https://www.marcorubber.com/o-ring-chemical-compatibility-chart-1.htm

TC

[john adam]

Big thanks to Artic for an amazing "how to" for removing the fuel pipe from the fuel rail. Are the yellow seals available?

[T-Cut]

Are the yellow seals available?


All the seals are available (from forum traders, eBay, specialist o-ring suppliers on the web, etc.) but don't focus on colour. It's relatively meaningless and different colour pigments are used by different manufacturers. The important thing here is the chemical type of the rubber. As I've already described, get them in Viton and they'll provide excellent service.


TC

[john adam]

Can someone point me to the ebay site who sell the Viton seals at the end of the fuel rail.

[T-Cut]

Type 'fuel rail seals' in the ebay search box, you should find dozens of listings for these. Or go to DMGRS shop where you'll also fine them.


TC

[biffa75]

So glad I found this thread! Many thanks for the pictures that have been posted.

The metal fuel feed pipe that clips into the injection rail. When I removed my fuel feed pipe... The seals and spacers came with the pipe.

I've sourced new seals from dmgrs, I have the bigger black spacer that sits up against the metal silver locking clip and then two o rings. I aren't sure if I'm missing another smaller spacer that goes between the two o rings? I also want to ask.. who else has replaced the rubber o rings, if so how did you replace them? Build the spacers and o rings up on the pipe and then slide the pipe into the injection rail
Or
Do the spacers and seals have to be fitted I to the inside of the injection rail and then the pipe slid Into the injection rail?
Or does it not matter?

I don't have a leak or anything and it appears fairly firm in all honesty, but if I'm missing that small spacer that goes between the two o rings, I'd sooner have it in place if it prevents a possible leak, despite not having one at the moment...

Thanks in advance,
I know I've asked this question in numerous places but really need an answer quick as the rover is our daily.

Thanks
Rob

[Ayman]

I need the inside seal + metal clip
What are the part number(s) ?