V6 Inlet gasket issue (that old chestnut)

[Salad-Dodger]

I'm in the process of replacing the inlet gaskets (manifold to heads) on my V6.
Over the years I've done this job a few times, not only on my engine but quite a few on other cars, and I don't think I've seen many that was making a coolant tight seal around the outer inlet ports.
I know its been done to death on here but the gaskets I've taken off this time have been leaking coolant to some degree. I was wondering if there have been any strides forward for a cure for this. If there has, I'd very much like to know about it.
All the gaskets I use are genuine MGR as they do last longer than the copies I have seen and I observe all the proper procedures like order of bolt tightening and torque figures. I'm thinking that a change in the material of them could be the answer? Steve

[kaiser]

A couple of layers of silver garden gate paint on both sides of the gaskets, let dry.
Even torque, problem solved.

[Salad-Dodger]

Ah. Water-proofing the paper?

[p2roverman]

A couple of layers of silver garden gate paint on both sides of the gaskets, let dry.
Even torque, problem solved.

We don't have that in the UK, is it a specific paint designed for wood or ironwork? Any significance in the 'silver'? Might it be a high zinc content paint?

[kaiser]

Aluminium paint has a large part of aluminium flakes in suspension.

I have heard of sucessful re-uses of head gaskets when coated in aluminium paint, but have never tried that.

My last set of inlet manifold gaskets got this treatment, and have been trouble-free since then.

the problem is that the green material is permeable to water. It is totally unsuited for the application, as there is a pressure gradient from the cooling channel to the inlet at the valve. It is a design that is almost guaranteed to leak because of the high pressure on the water side and the low pressure in the inlet tract.

Surely that paint is available in the UK! Nothing special, typical garden variety, - excuse the pun!:D

[p2roverman]

Aluminium paint has a large part of aluminium flakes in suspension.

I have heard of sucessful re-uses of head gaskets when coated in aluminium paint, but have never tried that.

Surely that paint is available in the UK! Nothing special, typical garden variety, - excuse the pun!:D

Aluminium paint is available, it's just that garden gate painting is not a common thing we do here! It's sold for general painting of steel in a domestic situation.

We also have zinc-rich paint though some of it has a very limited shelf life even un-opened.

The gaskets Rimmers supplied are after-market Britpart ones. I'll make the decision whether to fit as they are or paint them later this week, probably fit as supplied so I can do my own monitoring on their performance.

[kaiser]

Aluminium paint is available, it's just that garden gate painting is not a common thing we do here! It's sold for general painting of steel in a domestic situation.

.................................................. ..

Wait, let me guess, ---- drawbridges!
:D

[p2roverman]

Wait, let me guess, ---- drawbridges!
:D

You're thinking of the Netherlands !

Or is this a reference to shutting ourselves away in the garage (our castle / cave) and raising the drawbridge to keep the wife out?!

[kaiser]

My house is my castle.
No castle without a moat.
No moat without a drawbridge.

See, logical!!

Here we use a garden gate. Dry country!

[Salad-Dodger]

Will I never stop decorating.....?

[p2roverman]

My house is my castle.
No castle without a moat.
No moat without a drawbridge.


Don't forget the portcullis, for which aluminium paint required to prevent rusting in our wet climate.

Remember that Wales (much of it) was dry in a different sense!

[Salad-Dodger]

Getting back to the problem, it does look to me that there's a lack of gasket compression at the very point where the coolant passes from the head to the manifold. One more bolt in the right place would have done it.
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http://https://www.flickr.com/photos/152509688@N06/shares/Y35701

[kaiser]

So what's it gonna be?

Drill and tap,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAB12aeI6nA

or paint?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNTfJFy7xgQ

:D

[SD1too]

The gaskets Rimmers supplied are after-market Britpart ones.
Mike,

My advice is not to mess about with Britpart aftermarket gaskets and painting. Buy genuine MGR gaskets. I always do and have never had a problem with them.

Simon

[Salad-Dodger]

Hi Simon. I always use MGR gaskets. I've seen the result of aftermarket gaskets so I steer clear of them. I was trying to post a picture of the gaskets I intend to fit but I can't find the procedure that works.
I can tell you one thing though. I certainly won't be painting them!
Steve

[beinet1]

Mike,

My advice is not to mess about with Britpart aftermarket gaskets and painting. Buy genuine MGR gaskets. I always do and have never had a problem with them.

Simon

I would absolutely agree with this one. Basically, it should not be necessary to add paint or other liquid sealant to a gasket on a modern car. On the other hand, RTV silicone was added to these gaskets on my car by the local LR garage, so there might be a reason lying behind that....

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x151/beinet1/DSCN22741_zpscb2b89fc.jpg~original (http://s183.photobucket.com/user/beinet1/media/DSCN22741_zpscb2b89fc.jpg.html)

[kaiser]

I would absolutely agree with this one. Basically, it should not be necessary to add paint or other liquid sealant to a gasket on a modern car. On the other hand, RTV silicone was added to these gaskets on my car by the local LR garage, so there might be a reason lying behind that....


Yet you show a clear example that contradicts what you have just written.

It is clearly necessary in this case. The evidence is in front of your eyes.
Look at the seepage through the seal. It is perfectly clear that the seal is not fit for the intended job at hand.

This is blatantly basic. The water permeates the gasket, which is not water proof. You don't even have to be an engineer to see that.

Look at the seepage through the seal.

[beinet1]

Yet you show a clear example that contradicts what you have just written.

It is clearly necessary in this case. The evidence is in front of your eyes.
Look at the seepage through the seal. It is perfectly clear that the seal is not fit for the intended job at hand.

This is blatantly basic. The water permeates the gasket, which is not water proof. You don't even have to be an engineer to see that.

Look at the seepage through the seal.

No need to discuss that paper gaskets and cork weeps. That what we normally sees on cars from the -60`s++. If this gasket is not fit for purpose, its a shame. There should at least have been an upgrade released at a later point from the manufacturer....

[kaiser]

No need to discuss that paper gaskets and cork weeps. That what we normally sees on cars from the -60`s++. If this gasket is not fit for purpose, its a shame. There should at least have been an upgrade released at a later point from the manufacturer....

It is not an if, Beinet. It is a fact.

[Salad-Dodger]

RTV is the sump sealant I think? I have a tube of VW Audi D 176 404 A2 here. Its the white stuff and works really well on the sump where no gasket is present. I see in the picture the goo is black, and looks like it was used in vast amounts! Maybe a smear around the coolant port would suffice.

I'm looking at any burrs around the heads/manifold join at the moment as these may contribute to a poor seating. Isn't it a shame that just a little more could have gone into the design of these engines just to give them a longer usage before becoming unreliable?

Just an ask as I'm here. I understand that we need to make a contribution to the forum before we can use picture hosting. Can someone tell me what I have to do to achieve this please! DON'T PANIC...I'VE FOUND IT!)
Steve

[SD1too]

If this gasket is not fit for purpose, its a shame. There should at least have been an upgrade released at a later point from the manufacturer....

It is not an if, Beinet. It is a fact.
I repeat, I have always bought genuine MGR gaskets, observed the manifold bolts tightening sequence using a torque wrench and have never had a leakage problem.

I venture to suggest that if others do, then it is not the gasket which is the cause.

Simon

[kaiser]

So where are the pictures to back your claim?