V6 2.5 hydramount to Diesel

[goofysth]

Is it a good idea to put a hydramount from V6 2.5 (KKB101914) to a Diesel?
I found only the petrol version and it is urgent to change it... Thanks

[Arctic]

Is it a good idea to put a hydramount from V6 2.5 (KKB101914) to a Diesel?
I found only the petrol version and it is urgent to change it... Thanks


Hi Dragan
An hydramount from a Freelander 1 TD4 will fit but you have to modify it by cutting a bit off the thread, Rob & Steve recently did this on Rob's R40 diesel.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LAND-ROVER-FREELANDER-1-TD4-man-R-H-ENGINE-MOUNTING/280641322978?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649

I am sure if Rob sees this post he would give more detail.

There is also this one which states which car it is for, but have never purchased one from them and fitted it.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rover-75-Diesel-Main-Engine-Mount-Drivers-Timing-Side-MG-ZT/122646653896?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649

I have fitted a diesel hydramount to a petrol which the owner asked me to and it is alright so I am informed.

Are they different to each model ? I don't know but I suspect so.

[Steve1966]

The original Rover hydramounts fitted were essentially the same dimensionally but the rubber hardness was different for the 3 engine types due to the differing engine weight which needed to be supported.

The 1.8 (blue paint spot) was 115 N/mm
The V6 (green spot) was 130 N/mm
The diesel (yellow spot) was 160 N/mm

These rates were designed to give approimately 8mm deflection due to the weight of the engine.

So, you could fit stiffer mounts to the lighter versions but I wouldn't fit either of the petrol mounts to a diesel as they will be less durable and may sink so low that they sit on the internal snubber increasing noise and vibration. The stiffer mounts will have noise/refinement penalties on the lighter engines but they will work.

On the MG versions we mixed things up a bit to increase the noise on purpose to give a more sporty sound but I can't remember what we did exactly. It was probably the V6 mount for the 1.8, and the diesel mount for the V6 and Diesel.

Steve.

[Arctic]

The original Rover hydramounts fitted were essentially the same dimensionally but the rubber hardness was different for the 3 engine types due to the differing engine weight which needed to be supported.

The 1.8 (blue paint spot) was 115 N/mm
The V6 (green spot) was 130 N/mm
The diesel (yellow spot) was 160 N/mm
Steve.

Hi Steve.
I can't say I have ever seen any hydramount with any coloured spots on? I do know that recently the lower engine mount being sold have added spots due to the diesel mount being made in the same mould as the 1.8 mount, reason given the original mould got damage so spots have been added to know the difference, personally I think that system is open to abuse.

Therefore if coloured spots are on original hydramounts I have yet to see one, do you have a link anywhere to this reference please, because if that is the case I would doubt the one above I gave link to being a diesel hydramount for sure.? we have to trust these seller don't we really :eek: cheers Arctic.

[Steve1966]

Therefore if coloured spots are on original hydramounts I have yet to see one, do you have a link anywhere to this reference please, because if that is the case I would doubt the one above I gave link to being a diesel hydramount for sure.? we have to trust these seller don't we really :eek: cheers Arctic.

No reference Steve only the fact that I developed the mount system with my colleagues at Rover Group from 1996 onwards. The original Paulstra (French) mounts had these spots on. They may have been omitted if Xpart had some remanufactured later.

The second link in your post shows a purple spot. This may be a later supply/supplier. We didn't use purple at-all originally.

Steve.

[Arctic]

No reference Steve only the fact that I developed the mount system with my colleagues at Rover Group from 1996 onwards. The original Paulstra (French) mounts had these spots on. They may have been omitted if Xpart had some remanufactured later.

The second link in your post shows a purple spot. This may be a later supply/supplier. We didn't use purple at-all originally.

Steve.


Hi Steve.
The fact that you were on the development then that is for certain a true reference then, so I have learnt something today :bowdown: I wonder if the purple spot is stating it is an after market mount? opposed to original

[goofysth]

The original Rover hydramounts fitted were essentially the same dimensionally but the rubber hardness was different for the 3 engine types due to the differing engine weight which needed to be supported.

The 1.8 (blue paint spot) was 115 N/mm
The V6 (green spot) was 130 N/mm
The diesel (yellow spot) was 160 N/mm

These rates were designed to give approimately 8mm deflection due to the weight of the engine.

So, you could fit stiffer mounts to the lighter versions but I wouldn't fit either of the petrol mounts to a diesel as they will be less durable and may sink so low that they sit on the internal snubber increasing noise and vibration. The stiffer mounts will have noise/refinement penalties on the lighter engines but they will work.

On the MG versions we mixed things up a bit to increase the noise on purpose to give a more sporty sound but I can't remember what we did exactly. It was probably the V6 mount for the 1.8, and the diesel mount for the V6 and Diesel.

Steve.

Thank you for the details Steve, great info :)

[Steve1966]

As embarrassing as it is to admit it, rather than leave incorrect info out on the web I would like to retract my statement regarding colour codes for the RH hydramount. The more I think about it the more I wonder if the colours I mention are for the 25/45/ZR/ZS range of mounts. I worked on everything during the Longbridge MG/Rover years. I worked solely on the 75 from 96-99 but this was 20 years ago. In my mind I can see other colours also, and we used colours to differentiate between prototype mounts of differing stiffness during development and have doubts about what was what. Also I seem to recall the base of the hydramount having a stamped letter. I wonder if this dictates the fitment. If anyone has a factory fitted (not replacement) mount that they have removed from a 1.8, V6 and diesel that would confirm the existence/letter used. Regarding the relative stiffnesses, I'm happy about that and the statement about suitability still stands.

Steve.

[Arctic]

Hi Steve.
Thank you for coming back to us with your memory findings, I just went over the photo's of the last hydramount I changed for a member, I could not see any stamping of a letter on the one taken out and the one put in it's place.

maybe if I had took more notice of the base then I would have recorded it, I am sure we will find out sooner or later.

When you first said about the coloured dots on the mount I thought I have never ever seen any? and if they are on the 25/45 models then that is why.

As you can see from the photo's below I doubt if the old mount I took off the car I would have seen anything from the mess of it :eek: Arctic

[Steve1966]

It looks like the decision to delete the wire strap that prevented the mount going into tension under torque early(?) in production probably didn't help with durability. I can see that's a V6 but on the diesel, especially with the later 135 and then 160 remaps, it's no wonder they fail. The mount system was developed with the strap and with a 115PS diesel.

[Steve1966]

Right, I've managed to find one image of what is said to be a diesel mount removed from a vehicle. It shows the letter J stamped on the underside. Just need to find images of 1.8 and V6 mounts too. Not that this helps particularly as original OEM parts (pre Apr 2005) will no doubt be very scarce. I did notice that the original parts are date stamped which will help to identify OEM.

https://www.ebay.ie/itm/ROVER-75-MG-ZT-ZT-T-DIESEL-MAIN-ENGINE-MOUNT-DRIVERS-SIDE-TIMING-SIDE-/183024894845?hash=item2a9d22437d

[genpk]

Did the hydramount in my 135 bhp diesel.
The lower engine mount had also gone so replaced that as well with a powerflex bush.
Think that when the lower mount goes it places huge strain on the hydramount .
Prior to doing the hydramount , I had a little bit of vibration, did a visual of the hydramount and it all looked fine.
Took it out and found there was a large crack in the rubber but no leakage.
Also found there is a aluminium spacer under the diesel hydramount unlike the petrol one which screws right down on the cars body.
Vibration pretty much gone now.
Re different types of hydramounts, I wonder if the suppliers these days really bother with making the parts with the correct rubber as per original design.

[Salad-Dodger]

When I changed the hydro-mount on my 190 I used a freelander mount from Island 4/4. The price was quite good as well. I just shortened one of the threaded studs. If I find the invoice I'll get back but it worked ok and still is working. Steve

[Bolin]

I have had a look at my original from my V6, stamped April 2001 - there appears to be a letter on the base but it is too rusty to make it out. No sign of a coloured spot.

Steve, with regards to the wire strap - on this Apr '01 mount, without strap, the 'slots' in the base and top do not align. On the new 'genuine' mount I fitted, which looked a bit different (made in China?) the slots again did not line up but were in a different orientation to the old one.

So did the orientation of the two slots on the mount ever matter with regard to fitting the wire strap?

I tried to get the wire when I changed my mount last year but couldn't find one. I have even seen a launch car that looked to have an original mount but no wire, so must have been deleted very very early on.

[Steve1966]

So did the orientation of the two slots on the mount ever matter with regard to fitting the wire strap?

I tried to get the wire when I changed my mount last year but couldn't find one. I have even seen a launch car that looked to have an original mount but no wire, so must have been deleted very very early on.

The two slots would have to be parallel but on either side of the studs (so that the wire ran diagonally between them. You had to fit the wire into the slot at the top and then push the steel part the wire was crimped into, into the groove at the bottom. It was tight enough not to fall off but still simple to fit. The problem with working on these cars for so long before launch (2.5 years more or less) is that it's difficult to remember exactly when things were deleted. Maybe it never made it to production?

Steve.

[goofysth]

Well, what i discovered this morning is that i am missing this part below the hydramount (the absorber).

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MG-ZT-Rover-75-diesel-Absorber-dynamic-engine-mounting-hydramount-RH-KKE100090-/391819760443?hash=item5b3a47133b

Is that the possible cause and how is it possible that it is not there?

[Steve1966]

Well, what i discovered this morning is that i am missing this part below the hydramount (the absorber).

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MG-ZT-Rover-75-diesel-Absorber-dynamic-engine-mounting-hydramount-RH-KKE100090-/391819760443?hash=item5b3a47133b

Is that the possible cause and how is it possible that it is not there?

Your engine will be sitting low on that side by the thickness of the base of the absorber (4-5mm?) but it won't have affected the mount otherwise I wouldn't think. The absorber is only there to add mass to the assembly/longitudinal to reduce chain noise (whine) from the engine at around 2600 rpm.

Steve.

[Arctic]

When I changed the hydro-mount on my 190 I used a freelander mount from Island 4/4. The price was quite good as well. I just shortened one of the threaded studs. If I find the invoice I'll get back but it worked ok and still is working. Steve

Hi Steve.
Yes I asked this question about 2.5-3 years and was shot down, saying they are larger when I knew they were not, admittedly I bought as a spare for the TD4 I had at the time, but they looked awfully alike if not the same, turns out yes they fit if you cut off the thread a little.

Rob & Steve fitted it to trebor diesel and all went well and works great cost is a lot less as well.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LAND-ROVER-FREELANDER-1-TD4-man-R-H-ENGINE-MOUNTING/280641322978?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649

https://i.imgur.com/0L4M8X4m.jpg1

https://i.imgur.com/vfZYKfQm.jpg2

[goofysth]

Your engine will be sitting low on that side by the thickness of the base of the absorber (4-5mm?) but it won't have affected the mount otherwise I wouldn't think. The absorber is only there to add mass to the assembly/longitudinal to reduce chain noise (whine) from the engine at around 2600 rpm.

Steve.

Thank you very much, sir.
:bowdown:

[JohnnyBG]

Hi, while taking out the HPFP prior to putting in the recon HPFP (from P F Jones) I found the hydramount (or is it hydromount) was leaking. It fell apart taking it out.


Bought a replacement from DMGRS and plan to fit it tomorrow. I don't have the special tool but plan to spin it in with with a bit of threadlock on and then tighten up with couple of taps with a copper drift. Then use the torque wrench on the top nut (will check book for torque on that). I'm assuming that by the time the "cap" over the top hydramount stud is tight against the top of the hydramount then it won't spin and stress the rubber.


Bit expensive to stuff up!


Any thoughts?


JohnnyBG

[ceedy]

I have DMGRS Hydramount on my CDTi, I hoped it might be better than the Yellow slotted PowerFlex bush, but actually its no different at all .:duh:


Also found the DMGRS mount was also 20mm taller than the original but that might be the old one being a bit squashed ?? ;)


C.

[JohnnyBG]

Cheers, it's on now. Did have difficulty in lining up the four bolts that attach the alloy joining block onto the engine (the other end of which goes over the top of the hydramount).


It's all good now, though winding those 4 bolts up to 73 ft lbs was scary (and hard work for an old bloke).


JohnnyBG

[Arctic]

I am posting just to bring this thread up to date, after doing some searching today i found these, hydro mounts below, from a well known seller so i presume they are the correct part?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ROVER-75-DIESEL-ENGINE-MOUNT-ALSO-MGZT-MGZTT-RH-SIDE-FOR-KKB101923-DRIVER-SIDE/132520503774?_trksid=p2485497.m4902.l9144

PS ok i have sent a message to the above seller here is part of the answer.

(Ours are imported from SAIC in China so if you consider them as the owner of MG genuine or aftermarket i'm not really sure, we don't say they are genuine for that reasons, ( there were originally 2 sets of tooling 1 for petrol and 1 for diesel but the Diesel one was worn out so the last I heard was there is only 1 set of tooling so only having the stamped number of the KKB101914 in it. The product we sell does have a sloshing sound if you shake it.)

I have asked for confirmation that both the KKB101914/ 7 the KKB101923 make this sloshing sound, as this is now getting quite confusing as some do & some don't also regarding the tooling how would they know how to change the compound needed for the diesel?

I will wait and see the next reply.

[Saga Lout]

As embarrassing as it is to admit it, rather than leave incorrect info out on the web I would like to retract my statement regarding colour codes for the RH hydramount. The more I think about it the more I wonder if the colours I mention are for the 25/45/ZR/ZS range of mounts. I worked on everything during the Longbridge MG/Rover years. I worked solely on the 75 from 96-99 but this was 20 years ago. In my mind I can see other colours also, and we used colours to differentiate between prototype mounts of differing stiffness during development and have doubts about what was what. Also I seem to recall the base of the hydramount having a stamped letter. I wonder if this dictates the fitment. If anyone has a factory fitted (not replacement) mount that they have removed from a 1.8, V6 and diesel that would confirm the existence/letter used. Regarding the relative stiffnesses, I'm happy about that and the statement about suitability still stands.

Steve.

It's the first time I've read this thread and your memories of the mounts, you were correct about the colour dots as this one has the Yellow one. The only difference is that the mount was off a pre production V6, it also has the wire. I expect it was just chosen at random to be on the car as it was earmarked for St Helens college to be used as a learning tool. The vin tags shown are from that car.

[Royster]

Good evening all

I'll be taking the MG off the road for March when the road fund expires to complete a few jobs.

Is the hydramount for the Freelander TD4 mentioned previously still considered a good, reliable and cost-effective replacement?


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LAND-ROVER...19.m1438.l2649

Royster

[BigRuss]

Also found the DMGRS mount was also 20mm taller than the original but that might be the old one being a bit squashed ?? ;)


C.

Sounds like it's a Freelander one, they're taller ;)

A few years ago a friend just down the road from me got an original Freelander one to replace his and sent it back.

At the time original diesel ones were still available although more expensive, he'd tried to save a few bob but it didn't work out ;)

Russ