Starting Issues- FFS?

[dai1983]

Earlier on today I went to start the car and it refused to fire despite being fine previously. I’d left a USB adapter in the fag lighter since Friday but it was only powering the green LED of the adapter. The battery showed 12.2v but I’ve had the Mrs Car hooked up to it for a while and it showed around 14v across the terminals and it still won’t start.

It turns over fine and wants to go and Occasionally it fires, runs lumpy but then soon dies away. Only once it’s came up with “check engine” on the display so I think there may be an error stored.

My mate has a professional diagnostic machine but I can’t work on the car until next Friday. Any ideas?

[Ravinder]

How much fuel do you have in the car? What engine is it?

[dai1983]

V6 and I have about 2/3 of a tank. Did have to do a gold relay after the car overheated on me due to no low speed fan. Did a 100 mile trip home after that and it ran perfect. Not had any issues starting since I’ve had it!

[T-Cut]

Your 2002 model is in the FFS vulnerable zone, so the only way to eliminate it is to fit the orange clip. You should check to see if there's one fitted on the filter module. If not, then fit one. With a FOC fitted it will eliminate FFS from the equation.

TC

[kaiser]

Your 2002 model is in the FFS vulnerable zone, so the only way to eliminate it is to fit the orange clip. You should check to see if there's one fitted on the filter module. If not, then fit one. With a FOC fitted it will eliminate FFS from the equation.

TC

This is not helpful to a new member. Drop the acronyms and explain what you are talking about or give a link to something written in English.

[dai1983]

This is not helpful to a new member. Drop the acronyms and explain what you are talking about or give a link to something written in English.

Ive been lurking on here a bit longer TBH to plus I’d done a couple of frantic searches on here. Seems to be loads of info on how to fit it but not much in the symptoms except non starting.

[HarryM1BYT]

This is not helpful to a new member. Drop the acronyms and explain what you are talking about or give a link to something written in English.

I fancy translating all of the acronyms into plain English, might prove embarrassing for the OP.;)

[Hillsy]

Hello everyone.
I have a 2002 2lt Rover 75 club that was fine on Friday and refused to start on Saturday.
I have a full solid battery that turned over the engine with no problem, just refused to start.
I had the AA out and they checked all the fuses,all fine, checked if there was fuel reaching the engine by pulling the fuel pipe apart, there wasn't. They then tried quick start and that failed too. They gave up and offered a few suggestions on what could be the problem. Immobiliser faulty, fuel pump knackered but unlikely, a sensor somewhere that was not functioning. Any suggestions on where to start or a reliable Rover garage near Northwood?

Thanks

[T-Cut]

Ive been lurking on here a bit longer TBH to plus I’d done a couple of frantic searches on here. Seems to be loads of info on how to fit it but not much in the symptoms except non starting.

Indeed. You asked about 'FFS' which means you've done some research and have a basic appreciation of the terminology. For those unfamiliar with the forum speak, there's a dedicated thread on acronyms and abbreviations here: https://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=53394

Whatever. The Fuel Filter Syndrome is related to post-2001 (late) petrol models, which have a two part filter casing, held together by a fast threaded 'screw' or bayonet type coupling. The unlock to lock condition takes an eighth of a turn. So, the slightest jolt can invoke leakage past a very thin o-ring which seals the two halves. There's also a design feature which promotes the separation. The stiff pipe connecting the filter bottom to the fuel pump exerts an clockwise torque on the case. This weakens the bayonet's grip and promotes slackening.

https://www.mediafire.com/convkey/eb97/vyeqe7q9bqn6hna6g.jpg

The symptoms of FFS are basically what you've described. In my experience, it can happen spontaneously or more slowly. Spontaneous FFS happens when the filter module slackens all at once, perhaps due to a heavy road bump, vibration, etc. but in many cases, it just happens overnight. One day everything's normal, next day it won't start.
Insipient FFS (my term) starts with an obvious hesitation when you accelerate. This gets progressively worse until full-blown FFS prevents starting. Other causes of similar symptoms are well documented, so only a physical examination of the filter module will confirm it.

An important issue related to FFS is loss of prime at the pump. As fuel bleeds from the filter module joint, it 'tops up' the filter side of the tank. When the engine doesn't start, repeated attempts will eventually drain fuel from the pump side until it can't deliver anything to the filter and thus the engine. Often, the engine refuses to start after FFS has been fixed by attaching the Fabled Orange Clip - FOC (geddit!). So, avoid persistant use of the starter if FFS is a likely cause of a non-starting engine. Top up the tank with a gallon of fuel to resolve it.

All vulnerable models were supposed to get the FOC fitted FOC (free of charge) by MGR as part of the normal servicing schedules. MGR should have done a formal recall over it but didn't. So, relatively few cars actually had a FOC fitted straight away and FFS persists even now.

TC

[T-Cut]

Hello everyone.
I have a 2002 2lt Rover 75 club that was fine on Friday and refused to start on Saturday.


I suggest you start a new thread describing your problem. Yours will get lost here and if it's a diesel (?) query and isn't connected to the topic of FFS. I'm certain you'll get helpful advice with a new thread and a full description of the issues.

TC

[HarryM1BYT]

Ive been lurking on here a bit longer TBH to plus I’d done a couple of frantic searches on here. Seems to be loads of info on how to fit it but not much in the symptoms except non starting.

There will be less than the necessary amount of fuel being pumped from the tank to the engine, due to leakage past the pump, so the engine will not be able to start. A diagnostics unit might be able confirm it.

[T-Cut]

A manual check of fuel pressure at the rail will also be useful. This can be done (on the V6 at least) by putting a mechanical tyre gauge to the Schrader valve (blue cap on the end of the fuel rail). FFS is indicated if the pressure while cranking is below 50psi.

TC

[dai1983]

A manual check of fuel pressure at the rail will also be useful. This can be done (on the V6 at least) by putting a mechanical tyre gauge to the Schrader valve (blue cap on the end of the fuel rail). FFS is indicated if the pressure while cranking is below 50psi.

TC

Thanks for the advice and the good explanation. I'm going to order the clip and hope that this is what is up with the car. I'm going to order the O ring too so I don't have to mess about with that at a later date

I read about putting a tyre gauge on the fuel rail too late as I was well on my way travelling to Devon by that point. I've also seen that the tank becomes unbalanced after FFS but I'm planning on draining 20L into a container anyway as its 2/3 full!

[T-Cut]

I've also seen that the tank becomes unbalanced after FFS but I'm planning on draining 20L into a container anyway as its 2/3 full!

The imbalanced tank levels only occurs if the engine won't run but the starter is tried repeatedly in a vain attempt to get it going. If the car is actually driving then the levels will equilibrate as normal. However, some extra juice in a can is wise if you do have incipient FFS.

TC

[dai1983]

Cheers for all the advice. The filter housing had undone completely seperating itself. Fitted a clip and new o ring so it ran fine when i just fired her up!

[steve-45]

Great result ...... well done ..... :}