Handbrake bad design?

[hogweed]

My discs and pads were all paper thin, so I got the lot replaced. The handbrake had always been ineffective, so I got new shoes fitted too – backplates etc all pronounced good by the mechanic, who is a Rover specialist, and knows these cars inside out. Saint Arctic also fitted one of the better compensators some time ago, so that’s OK too.

The brake lever now has a travel of maybe 3 notches, a LOT less than before – but the handbrake is still {naughty word}. I was thinking about this, then suddenly remembered that my last two cars (E36 M3’s) had exactly the same problem – I’d forgotten, as I’ve had the Rover7-8 years now.

Are my suspicions correct, that the handbrake design is essentially similar on both cars, and also essentially cr*p?

[GeoffWW]

It's not cr*p as you put it.

All the poor handbrake problems were due to the badly designed compensator, with the "U" link that opened up because of being welded on one side only, with hard lever application. I used a very small shackle from RS Components that cured the problem, without the need for welding.

Arctic's solution cured all that straight away after lots of owners had paid a small fortune to the parts people for new cables and shoes which were totally unnecessary. I still have the new cables I purchased about 7 years ago up in their box, in my loft.

With the handbrake correctly adjusted, both on the shoe adjusters and the handbrake cable correctly set, some owners have removed the "slack" to one notch. You can't get it better that.

[T-Cut]

A perfectly set up handbrake system, using all the recommended parts, will still exhibit the locked wheel slop that's regularly mentioned on the forums. Though raised frequently over the years, no convincing explanation of why it behaves thus has been proposed. Less so, how it could be fixed. IMO, it can't be fixed because of an inherent design flaw that resides within the drum.

TC

[EastPete]

A perfectly set up handbrake system, using all the recommended parts, will still exhibit the locked wheel slop that's regularly mentioned on the forums. Though raised frequently over the years, no convincing explanation of why it behaves thus has been proposed. Less so, how it could be fixed. IMO, it can't be fixed because of an inherent design flaw that resides within the drum.

TC

I agree - the shoes are basically 'floating' within the 'drum' of the brake disc, with only the retaining pins/springs holding them to the backplate. The adjuster is not fixed to anything, so on hills, there will always be some movement of the handbrake shoes even with the compensator/adjustment all perfect. What the design should have included is an adjuster that is bolted to the backplate (like on my MGB and other older cars), and that would hold the shoes in place, removing the 'slop' you refer to. Mind, other modern cars are little better - I did a rear wheel bearing on a Mercedes a few weeks back, and the handbrake shoe/back plate set-up on that was even cheaper and nastier than on the 75s - it made the 75 set-up look like a bit of solid old Victorian engineering !

Pete

[hogweed]

Ah, wheel slop… never heard that one before. But that’s one of the problems, yes. Put handbrake on, release footbrake, car moves a little then (just about) stops.

The other problem is that it doesn't actually hold the car on a hill. I mean, maybe if I wrenched the handle up another couple of notches it might, but other cars I drive (like my parents’ Siesta) hold completely on 1-2 notches, with little pull needed on the handle :mad:

[EastPete]

Ah, wheel slop… never heard that one before. But that’s one of the problems, yes. Put handbrake on, release footbrake, car moves a little then (just about) stops.

The other problem is that it doesn't actually hold the car on a hill. I mean, maybe if I wrenched the handle up another couple of notches it might, but other cars I drive (like my parents’ Siesta) hold completely on 1-2 notches, with little pull needed on the handle :mad:

Do you know what make of shoes were fitted ? I think there are variations in the fit and quality of after-market handbrake shoes for these cars. The shoes very rarely wear since all they do is hold the car, so it is usually best just to clean up the old shoes, rough them up with a bit of fine wet and dry paper, and refit/adjust. Were the new discs/drums de-greased before fitting ? - they have a protective coating of grease on them which needs to be removed before fitting, so that the pads/shoes work properly.

Pete

[hogweed]

Do you know what make of shoes were fitted ? I think there are variations in the fit and quality of after-market handbrake shoes for these cars. The shoes very rarely wear since all they do is hold the car, so it is usually best just to clean up the old shoes, rough them up with a bit of fine wet and dry paper, and refit/adjust. Were the new discs/drums de-greased before fitting ? - they have a protective coating of grease on them which needs to be removed before fitting, so that the pads/shoes work properly.

Pete

Not sure, but the guy who did them is a member of various owners’ clubs over here, and is very well thought of in the community. He eats and breathes Rovers, and I’m satisfied he would do whatever is best for the car… certainly can’t see him not removing the protective coating :D

[COLVERT]

The hand brake even when all the mechanical parts are installed correctly and are in good condition can operate poorly.

In normal use the hand brake is only applied when the car is stationary.
It doesn't take long for a film of rust to form on the inside of the drum.
This in conjunction with shoes that have not been bedded into the drum will give poor performance when the brake is applied.

To bring the brake up to optimum performance first the shoes HAVE to be bedded in. This is something that is achieved over, maybe, a week or two.

The idea is to apply the hand brake, gently, over a couple of hundred yards, at a slow speed. Very soon it will become apparent that the brake efficiency is improving.

Doing this on my own car has now made it possible to actually lock the back wheels even when driving at 10 mph or so.

Once this has been achieved it's only necessary to polish up the drums, maybe, once a month or so to keep them in good, effective, condition.

Without this initial bedding in the hand brake will NEVER reach its best performance.----:eek:

Try it. You will be very happy with the results you can achieve .----:D

[hogweed]

The idea is to apply the hand brake, gently, over a couple of hundred yards, at a slow speed. Very soon it will become apparent that the brake efficiency is improving.

Yeah I know mate, and that was the first thing the mechanic advised me to do. Think my car has now covered at least a couple of miles (in small slices) with the handbrake on… still not great though :duh:

[COLVERT]

:D:D:D---Patience is a virtue.----;)

Your brakes will slowly improve and be able to hold your car on a slope though I use belt and braces myself by leaving the car in gear as well.--:D

I think the design, apart from the BENDY bit is OK.

Mine locks solid. Yours will too.-----:party:

[Rev Jules]

The trouble with hand brakes are the people trying to yank them up through the floor, that’s how they get stretched, yanking them up across the ratchet, that’s what the release button is for, depress and pull up.

Rev

[COLVERT]

The trouble with hand brakes are the people trying to yank them up through the floor, that’s how they get stretched, yanking them up across the ratchet, that’s what the release button is for, depress and pull up.

Rev

They try to yank them through the floor because they haven't bedded them in correctly.---:duh::duh::duh:

As per my earlier post.---------------:D----Be careful what you yank, I say.-:eek:

[steve-45]

I think out handbrakes are a great improvement over those fitted on the Rover 45. The handbrake mechanism connected to the rear caliper (no internal drum) has been an on going pain on mine.

Just fitting new rear calipers so hopefully will be OK for a while....

[RoverP480]

A perfectly set up handbrake system, using all the recommended parts, will still exhibit the locked wheel slop that's regularly mentioned on the forums. Though raised frequently over the years, no convincing explanation of why it behaves thus has been proposed. Less so, how it could be fixed. IMO, it can't be fixed because of an inherent design flaw that resides within the drum.

TC
If I remember correctly the reason for the 'slop' is that the parking brake is a duo servo , ie both shoes act as leading ones whichever way the wheel is trying to rotate. The small amount of movement (float) is a design feature to allow this feature to work. Due to the small diameter of the park brake drum the duo servo is required to meet the legal park brake requirements on what is a 2 tonne motor, that fixed shoes with a simple expander would not meet. Using the disc brake calliper for parking was also discarded for the same reason. I worked for Rover Group at Gaydon involved with the braking engineers when the design was being finalized. It is 20 years ago so the little grey cells are slowing down a bit!

[hogweed]

Patience is a virtue.
Ummm… patience…? I’m going to have to look that word up, as I don’t know it – is it French or something?

Your brakes will slowly improve and be able to hold your car on a slope though I use belt and braces myself by leaving the car in gear as well.


Yeah I’ve always had to leave it in 1st. OK, I’ll persevere with impersonating an old woman driving along with a trail of smoke from the handbrake she forgot to take off two towns ago…

If I remember correctly the reason for the 'slop' is that the parking brake is a duo servo , ie both shoes act as leading ones whichever way the wheel is trying to rotate.

Of course, that makes perfect sense. I was a biker back in the 70’s, and the difference between SLS and TLS front brakes was dramatic, so I thought why the hell don’t they do this on our handbrakes… but then of course bikes didn’t have to brake backwards :duh:

[macafee2]

was it Renault Lagunas that used to role down hills even with handbrake on?
I think it was caused by the discs cooling and shrinking so the pads did not grip.
The recall advert, Even when its standing still it's on the move or something very similar

macafee2

[clf]

was it Renault Lagunas that used to role down hills even with handbrake on?
I think it was caused by the discs cooling and shrinking so the pads did not grip.
The recall advert, Even when its standing still it's on the move or something very similar

macafee2Was it a Citroen, with handbrake applied to the front discs? Can't rem the model, but if you were braking hard before application of the parking brake, as you say the discs cooled , shrunk just enough to allow the weight of the car to overcome the friction.


Sent from my SM-A310F using Tapatalk

[HarryM1BYT]

Ah, wheel slop… never heard that one before. But that’s one of the problems, yes. Put handbrake on, release footbrake, car moves a little then (just about) stops.

The other problem is that it doesn't actually hold the car on a hill. I mean, maybe if I wrenched the handle up another couple of notches it might, but other cars I drive (like my parents’ Siesta) hold completely on 1-2 notches, with little pull needed on the handle :mad:

They all do 'slop' to some extent, the amount varies from car to car. No one has found the precise cause, nor a fix.

Properly set up, with a modified compensator, decent shoes and drum - the handbrake is as good as any. Unlike many cars, the 75 uses a completely separate handbrake system from what ever the hydraulic system uses for its brakes - be they pads or shoes, the result is the shoes and drums get little use in braking the car to a stop - and there lies the fix...

Make a point of giving it some work to do. Where you can safely do it, apply the handbrake as you come to a stop - the final yard or two will do it, just to keep the drums free of rust and dirt.

My handbrake was rubbish when I got the car and nothing annoys me more than a less than perfect handbrake. Within weeks it was perfect, once I had worked out that one of the issues was the compensator, designed a fix and has stayed that way ever since, by simply using it. The unofficial Rover fix, was to drive the car with handbrake lightly applied, around a car park to clean the accumulated rust and dirt off the drums.

Take a look at my How To link below.

[HarryM1BYT]

If I remember correctly the reason for the 'slop' is that the parking brake is a duo servo , ie both shoes act as leading ones whichever way the wheel is trying to rotate. The small amount of movement (float) is a design feature to allow this feature to work. Due to the small diameter of the park brake drum the duo servo is required to meet the legal park brake requirements on what is a 2 tonne motor, that fixed shoes with a simple expander would not meet. Using the disc brake calliper for parking was also discarded for the same reason. I worked for Rover Group at Gaydon involved with the braking engineers when the design was being finalized. It is 20 years ago so the little grey cells are slowing down a bit!

Not absolutely certain, but from memory and logically I think you are wrong.

Logically a twin leading shoe would only work well for one direction of rotation - pretty useless for a handbrake to hold a car on both a up slope or down slope.

[maxi_crawf]

'slop' never heard it described as that before, I always think of the car 'sitting down' after applying the handbrake.

[hogweed]

Take a look at my How To link below.

Thanks Harry, great stuff, but all been done already. Compensator fitted by Arctic; new shoes and drums (and cables I think); shoes degreased; backplates etc OK… I guess I’ll just have to keep on driving with it on, and hope it gets better…

[HarryM1BYT]

'slop' never heard it described as that before, I always think of the car 'sitting down' after applying the handbrake.

Call it by what ever name you feel fits - With a rear wheel raised and handbrake fully applied, the wheel can easily be turned by a few degrees back and forth, before it hits solid. All vehicles will 'sit down', especially on a slope - if you come to a stop with the foot brake still applied, then apply the handbrake, then release the footbrake. That is the suspension wound up and locked by the brakes. The faster the stop, the greater the suspension is wound up.

The 75's special trick is to actually be able to roll a short distance, after the handbrake is applied.

[topman]

I wonder how far, if you measured it, the car would move? I suspect that it looks like it moves more than it actually does.

[Heddy]

Hogweeed, I feel the same. Despite all the faffing and setting up, the handbrake is far from perfect. It requires a hard 'pull on' for steep hills. I often wonder if the friction material is too hard, it feels that way. If I have washed the car, and hosed the wheels, the handbrake is amazing.....till it dries out. :shrug:

[T-Cut]

I wonder how far, if you measured it, the car would move?

A couple of inches I'd say.
So to answer the op question, yes IMO, they're a bad design.

TC

[topman]

It'd be interesting to see how far it does move.

[Richcl]

It's good to know others get this movement after the handbrake is applied, as I thought it was just my car.

Sounds like it's normal for the car to move slightly.

[MissMoppet]

Was it a Citroen, with handbrake applied to the front discs? Can't rem the model, but if you were braking hard before application of the parking brake, as you say the discs cooled , shrunk just enough to allow the weight of the car to overcome the friction.


Sent from my SM-A310F using Tapatalk

The GS Pallas. Lovely car. Nice square flat-floor boot, most unusual. Drove as if you were on rails. Most comfortable car I've ever had.

[hogweed]

I wonder how far, if you measured it, the car would move?

In my case, to the bottom of the hill :duh::duh::duh:

[hogweed]

I often wonder if the friction material is too hard, it feels that way. If I have washed the car, and hosed the wheels, the handbrake is amazing.....till it dries out. :shrug:

Ha ha yes, when I was very young, I was a member of the Railway Preservation Society of Ireland, and we messed about with steam engines... a lot of them had little sandboxes at the front, to dispense sand onto the tracks to get a bit of traction when there was "the wrong kind of snow".

Maybe we need something like that to dribble a little sand onto the Rover's brake drums...

[Comfortably Numb]

Today is the first time I have removed a rear wheel on my 75. Although the handbrake is adequate (it must be- it passed its MoT just before Xmas), what strikes me is how small the drum is compared to the diameter of the wheel. So the mechanical advantage/torque/leverage that the drum has in resisting the wheel turning is pretty puny, unless the shoes are getting maximum friction. And it's a heavy car.

[rustymotor]

I always rough the new shoes with a coarse grade of abrasive especially if it's due an MOT naturally, they need to be properly adjusted.

[hogweed]

Thanks for all the helpful replies, guys - but I suspect I was right in my OP, in that both my Beemers had exactly the same problem, and I'm guessing the Rover brakes are identical...?

[COLVERT]

Was it a Citroen, with handbrake applied to the front discs? Can't rem the model, but if you were braking hard before application of the parking brake, as you say the discs cooled , shrunk just enough to allow the weight of the car to overcome the friction.


Sent from my SM-A310F using Tapatalk

Absolutely correct.--:bowdown::bowdown::bowdown:


I had a Citroen XM estate twelve years.---:eek:--Yes, it WAS a good car.

However it did roll away on its own on two occasions.

There were FOUR pedals on the floor. The three usual ones and the foot operated Hand brake.--:D

The pads clamped the front discs. As the discs cooled from hard braking in an area that was hilly they would shrink to such an extent the brakes released themselves and, if parked on a hill, the car would gently roll away.

On one occasion the car stopped itself against a kerb. No problem.

On the second occasion the car parked itself in the middle of a Y junction.
A small lad knocked on my door and said-----Is that your car, mister, parked in the middle of the road ???-------------;)

[HarryM1BYT]

It'd be interesting to see how far it does move.

Mine allows the car to move around 1/2" measured at the bumper. From experience of quite a few peoples car's, where I assisted them to fix their handbrake, the 1/2" is at the lower end of the movement range. You may also notice it gives out a groan, as the car moves - that is the shoes rotating against the backplate.

[HarryM1BYT]

Today is the first time I have removed a rear wheel on my 75. Although the handbrake is adequate (it must be- it passed its MoT just before Xmas), what strikes me is how small the drum is compared to the diameter of the wheel. So the mechanical advantage/torque/leverage that the drum has in resisting the wheel turning is pretty puny, unless the shoes are getting maximum friction. And it's a heavy car.

Mine had a new MOT when I bought it, after having some minor fail points fixed. As already said, the handbrake was near useless, but none the less it passed. I understand the testers do know about the 75's pathetic handbrake and make allowances for it. I don't make allowances, I like things to be right, so I investigated, found the cause and resolved it. It is now as good as they get, no need to compromise at all.

[COLVERT]

I always rough the new shoes with a coarse grade of abrasive especially if it's due an MOT naturally, they need to be properly adjusted.

Strange but true. The SMOOTHER the mating surfaces are, the better the grip.---:eek:

Your roughened up surface would have to be polished SMOOTH to give the best grip and braking.----;)

[marinabrian]

I always rough the new shoes with a coarse grade of abrasive especially if it's due an MOT naturally, they need to be properly adjusted.

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

https://emojipedia-us.s3.amazonaws.com/thumbs/120/whatsapp/116/face-with-medical-mask_1f637.png

[hogweed]

Go and have a nice lie down, Brian. And some of the YELLOW tablets :D

[slovcan]

I thought they stopped using asbestos in brake linings.

[hogweed]

I thought they stopped using asbestos in brake linings.

I thought so too… on that subject, not strictly relevant, but I AM the OP :p: I remember my father and I scrubbing algae and lichen off the asbestos tiles of our bungalow roof with wire brushes, and disappearing into clouds of asbestos dust for hours… I’m hoping, as it’s about 50 years ago, and no obvious ill effects, we’ve got away with it :eek::eek::eek:

Just didn’t know back then :shrug:

[Jim Jamieson]

I’m an old school HGV mechanic and back in the day, now almost 50 years we sanded the brake drums and shoes to clean them up before testing.

I’m surprised I don’t suffer from asbestosis.

Now back to the 75 handbrake, I must be doing something right as I’ve had continuous ownership of at least 1 75 for 16 years now and never fitted a brake compensator on any of my three 75’s yet I can hold the car perfectly on any slope when brake is on 3 to 4 notches.

Prior to every MOT I strip off the disc/ drum and sand the internals plus clean up the shoes then after slackening off the adjustment at the handbrake I adjust each wheel in turn to get it so it is rubbing slightly then tighten up at the handbrake. I have on my first two 75’s added a short spacer behind the adjuster nut but only last week when doing my project car this spacer wasn’t required and yes I have it holding at three notches.

[HarryM1BYT]

Prior to every MOT I strip off the disc/ drum and sand the internals plus clean up the shoes then after slackening off the adjustment at the handbrake I adjust each wheel in turn to get it so it is rubbing slightly then tighten up at the handbrake. I have on my first two 75’s added a short spacer behind the adjuster nut but only last week when doing my project car this spacer wasn’t required and yes I have it holding at three notches.

I think the reason you are getting away without distorting the compensator, is that you don't need to apply as much force in use of the handbrake. You say you service it once per year.

Others may let the drums build up rust, so gradually more and more effort is needed to apply the brake, the result is the well known compensator stretch. I have not needed to touch mine since I first had a go at it, though I have readjusted it once. My maintenance is one of just applying the handbrake gently, for the last yard or two, as I come to a stop. It keeps the drums polished.

[p2roverman]

I thought so too… on that subject, not strictly relevant, but I AM the OP :p: I remember my father and I scrubbing algae and lichen off the asbestos tiles of our bungalow roof with wire brushes, and disappearing into clouds of asbestos dust for hours… I’m hoping, as it’s about 50 years ago, and no obvious ill effects, we’ve got away with it :eek::eek::eek:
Just didn’t know back then :shrug:

Rover doors were lined inside with sprayed on BLUE asbestos in the mid 30s. 45 years ago I scraped all this off a couple of doors working in a confined space. There is always the worry in the back of my mind that I might get the dreaded asbestosis.

[madeupname]

Rover doors were lined inside with sprayed on BLUE asbestos in the mid 30s. 45 years ago I scraped all this off a couple of doors working in a confined space. There is always the worry in the back of my mind that I might get the dreaded asbestosis.

We had a training session on asbestos a few years ago. From memory I think that Blue asbestos was mostly used in furnace linings and is not a problem (might be wrong). It is the white/grey asbestos which, when it breaks down into fibres, can lodge in the lining of the lungs and cause irritation and lead to cancer.
But so can smoking, breathing in diesel particulates, eating ultra processed foods etc.

[Jim Jamieson]

I decided to put mine to the test today as my car will be due it’s MOT in about three months.
My driveway has a slope downwards, so parking the car after a run I put the handbrake on three clicks then put it into drive.
The car didn’t move at all so that’s good enough for me.

[hogweed]

Well, drove it frequently with the brake on for a couple of hundred yards, and observed the handle rising gradually towards the ceiling.

Left her in last week for a couple of little jobs, and got the brakes readjusted at the back etc, and it's MUCH better now - in fact, it's the first time I've had what you would call a working handbrake in the 8 years I've owned the car :cool:

Still not sure it'd be up to handbrake turns, but getting a bit too old for that sort of thing now anyway :getmecoat:

[ryszard]

Hi,has anybody replaced theire handbrake shoes and found a great difference,reason I'm asking is despite putting on a compensator and doing the adjustments several times I still have to wind the nut on the handbrake inside the car to get a good leverage,since I've had the car it's never held on the 3rd click despite many times at adjustment including taking off and cleaning the drums,replacing back plate and all the proper adjustments.Before I get new shoes wondered if any one else has done so.Regards Ryszard...

[HarryM1BYT]

Hi,has anybody replaced theire handbrake shoes and found a great difference,reason I'm asking is despite putting on a compensator and doing the adjustments several times I still have to wind the nut on the handbrake inside the car to get a good leverage,since I've had the car it's never held on the 3rd click despite many times at adjustment including taking off and cleaning the drums,replacing back plate and all the proper adjustments.Before I get new shoes wondered if any one else has done so.Regards Ryszard...

The original compensators deform/stretch, have you fitted a modified one?

Several people have fitted new shoes and found it has made the holding power of their handbrake much worse, so best avoided unless there is something amiss with the shoes.

Having to wind the nut up a long way, suggests you are getting the adjustment at the hub wrong, as many people and even trained mechanics do. That applies to the 75 and many other cars as it has for many decades. I was taught what I was doing wrong in my teens by an old school mechanic, when I couldn't get a decent handbrake on an A40.

1. Slack the front adjuster right off.

2. Wind the hub adjuster to completely lock the hub.

3. Maybe give the drum a good thump with a heavy mallet to centralise the shoe.

4. Back the adjuster off only enough to make the hub reasonably turnable by hand. Many make the mistake of backing it off too far (as described in the manual) - DON'T! Properly adjusted there will be some drag from the shoes. The slight drag will make no difference to the car.

5. Finally, after both sides have been done at the rear, adjust at the front nut. You should be able to easily set it to 3 clicks or even 2. With the car on the level, handbrake off - you should be able to easily push the car with absolutely no binding. At 1 click, you should find it quite difficult to push the car. That is 3 clicks with maximum effort applied to pull the handbrake on and the handbrake should then be capable of locking your rear wheels on the move. The 75's handbrake is as good as any handbrake on any car I have driven - but only if properly set up.

My final advice is to give the handbrake some work to do, to keep the drum free of inner surface rust. Apply the brake in the last yard or two as you come to a stop. Just applying the brake once at a standstill does the drum no favours at all - it needs work to keep it clean.

[hogweed]

You’ll be one of the few guys here who can understand a joke we used to tell when I was a teenager:


A little guy is drinking quietly at the bar, and this enormous Glaswegian comes in, somewhat the worse for wear, says “I don’t like the shape of your face, Jimmy” and nuts him violently, leaving him unconscious on the floor. As he staggers out again, he shouts back “When he wakes up, tell him that was a Glaswegian Kiss”.


Next night, the Glaswegian guy is standing drinking at the bar, when the little guy comes up behind, taps him on the shoulder and, as he turns round, knocks him to the floor with one blow, and calls out to the bar “When he wakes up, tell him that was an A40 starting handle”.


Wouldn't work nowadays, would it :(

Just ignore me. Carry on…

[roverbarmy]

In the days before "Fast and Furious" and "Top Gear", handbrakes were just for parking. ;)

[patrolman pete]

Regarding the 'slop' in the rear drums, my thought is when the handbrake is off , the shoes are sat against the stop at the bottom of the backplate whilst the top part is the adjuster which is ' floating' . When you apply the handbrake, the shoes are lifted off the stop causing the handbrake actuator to become 'floating ' also and the drum rolls the shoes back to hit the stop. It might be only by a small amount but when magnified by the diameter of the wheel feels a lot. Regarding holding ability, the friction material is the issue. I've tried Unipart shoes - poor , pagid- better, then finally original genuine shoes and now success . I needed a fix as the wife was wearing out the clutch on hillstarts as the car wouldn't hold !

[HarryM1BYT]

In the days before "Fast and Furious" and "Top Gear", handbrakes were just for parking. ;)

In the days before dual circuit brakes, handbrakes were emergency brakes. Now they are just parking brakes ;)

[rustymotor]

Having a read through and chucking 10ps worth in, I usually pull the hand brake one notch then adjust the shoes to bind, pull the handle again 4 or 5 times to center the shoes then re adjust, also run the car back wards and pull the handbrake should trigger the auto adjuster. Mostly the shoes don't need replacing they don't do in any work and I guess many owners have replaced the lot unneccasserily. A good clean and rough the shoes up for mot usually works unless the shoes have disintegrated.

[HarryM1BYT]

Having a read through and chucking 10ps worth in, I usually pull the hand brake one notch then adjust the shoes to bind, pull the handle again 4 or 5 times to center the shoes then re adjust, also run the car back wards and pull the handbrake should trigger the auto adjuster. Mostly the shoes don't need replacing they don't do in any work and I guess many owners have replaced the lot unneccasserily. A good clean and rough the shoes up for mot usually works unless the shoes have disintegrated.

As said, even correctly adjusted, the shoes will make some contact with the drum - it is the judgemental decision on how much contact/ how much binding is acceptable. Many DIY and mechanics too, get it wrong and er on the side of no binding at all.

I have only needed to tackle the handbrake twice in all of the years I have had the car. The first time when I bought it with a fresh MOT and found the handbrake to be near useless. That was when I seriously delved into it and found the problem that the compensator stretched. That sorted, I then pulled the hub apart, to investigate that end. Despite the mileage, the shoes were as new, but with some slight rust inside the drum contact area.

Compensator reshaped and modified, drum internal rust cleaned off, then set up as I described, plus the handbrake being given some work, to keep it free of rust - it has been absolutely perfect until a couple of years ago, when I noticed my 3 clicks to maximum application had become almost 4 clicks. So I readjusted it - now back to 3 clicks.

My MOT inspector, the first time he tested the brake, found the brake so fierce, the car jumped off the test rollers. He had become used to hauling on the other 75's he tested's brakes. Now he knows to apply it much more carefully.

Er - which auto adjuster might that be????

[rustymotor]

Hi Harry, I think most people are worried the shoes bind as a binding wheel is an MOT fail. apart from the thumb wheel, Isn't the ratchet adjuster (https://www.dmgrs.co.uk/collections/brake-discs-and-pads/products/rover-75-mg-zt-handbrake-springs-pins-adjusters-and-expanders-full-kit-clearance) at the lower end of the shoes?

[HarryM1BYT]

Hi Harry, I think most people are worried the shoes bind as a binding wheel is an MOT fail. apart from the thumb wheel, Isn't the ratchet adjuster (https://www.dmgrs.co.uk/collections/brake-discs-and-pads/products/rover-75-mg-zt-handbrake-springs-pins-adjusters-and-expanders-full-kit-clearance) at the lower end of the shoes?

I am not aware of any ratchet adjuster, only a sort of star wheel manual shoe adjuster, which pushes the two shoes apart to set them at the top. The other lower ends are pushed apart by the actual handbrake lever + compensator + cable arrangement.

There is no auto adjustment mechanism at all, it is an entirely manual set up. There really is no need for an auto adjustment system anyway, because the shoes tend to not wear at all. You find auto adjusters on cars where the drum brake serves both as a parking brake and as a foot brake.

The handbrake would need to be seriously binding, to fail an MOT. If the car can easily be pushed on the level / will roll of its own accord on the slightest of slopes, then the brake is not binding. If there is a very noticeable difference between handbrake off and 1 click, in that test, then the handbrake is correctly set and good for years. It will be much more difficult to get this correct, if the inner surface of the drum is at all rusty.

[macafee2]

The hand brake even when all the mechanical parts are installed correctly and are in good condition can operate poorly.

In normal use the hand brake is only applied when the car is stationary.
It doesn't take long for a film of rust to form on the inside of the drum.
This in conjunction with shoes that have not been bedded into the drum will give poor performance when the brake is applied.

To bring the brake up to optimum performance first the shoes HAVE to be bedded in. This is something that is achieved over, maybe, a week or two.

The idea is to apply the hand brake, gently, over a couple of hundred yards, at a slow speed. Very soon it will become apparent that the brake efficiency is improving.

Doing this on my own car has now made it possible to actually lock the back wheels even when driving at 10 mph or so.

Once this has been achieved it's only necessary to polish up the drums, maybe, once a month or so to keep them in good, effective, condition.

Without this initial bedding in the hand brake will NEVER reach its best performance.----:eek:

Try it. You will be very happy with the results you can achieve .----:D

polish the drums... with what? Polish-Slippery surface springs to mind

macafee2

[HarryM1BYT]

polish the drums... with what? Polish-Slippery surface springs to mind

macafee2

It seems counter intuitive, but rust on a rusty surface acts as a lubricant so far as brakes are concerned. A surface free of rust is much better for a brake shoes to act upon. Notice how poor your disks are, when a coat of rust builds up on them. The shoes with some use will clean up drums, just as the pads clean up your disk.

If the drums are off - wire brush and emery paper the inside of the drums to produce a surface free of rust.

[Arctic]

Always make sure that the expander as free movement also, sometimes they can and do get seized up with brake dust.

It is best at least twice a year to remove the disc drum and clean it out, this also gives you the chance to check the shoes, the back plate, the retaining pins & springs, you can also add a little copped grease to the shoe edge that rests on the back plate.

Try it the old way also adjust the knurled nut so the disc drum will only just about fit over the shoes, then tighten up so drum will not turn by hand, back it off one notch at a time, each time tap the drum with a rubber hammer, do this until you can feel a slight drag.

Then take up the adjustment at the front cable leaving 25mm of thread off the top of the nut, works for me ;)

https://i.imgur.com/o2qj8ZDl.jpg1

https://i.imgur.com/76WPKqql.jpg2

https://i.imgur.com/dopZscrl.jpg3

https://i.imgur.com/eu7fpwBl.jpg4

https://i.imgur.com/O3GYmARl.jpg5

https://i.imgur.com/qyYxOLxl.jpg6

https://i.imgur.com/fmcUArbl.jpg7

Photo's above from a local members car, who was having trouble with his handbrake, compensator fitted and a good clean all was well 3 clicks ;) Arctic

[rustymotor]

Thanks for that Harry, I would have thought that the thumb wheel adjuster at the top would unscrew in use to take up slack if the shoes were fitted and not fully adjusted to start with, most of them I've ever seen work like that. :shrug: The guy I use for MOT's spins the back wheels by hand.

[HarryM1BYT]

Thanks for that Harry, I would have thought that the thumb wheel adjuster at the top would unscrew in use to take up slack if the shoes were fitted and not fully adjusted to start with, most of them I've ever seen work like that. :shrug: The guy I use for MOT's spins the back wheels by hand.

The 'thumb wheel' is what I call the 'star wheel'. Rather awkwardly - You have to adjust that with a flat bladed screwdriver, poked through a hole with the drum in place. The shoe return spring, passes between the star points, so the set adjustment stays put.

There is no mechanism to automatically turn the adjuster and none is needed.

It is difficult to find the star through the hole, even when you know what you are looking for, then there is a 50/50 chance as to which way to turn it to actually take up the slack. Due to the spring, it will twang as you turn the star. That rather explains why many garages asked to adjust an handbrake, ignore that adjuster and wrongly just tighten the nut at the front.

There will always be some drag when spinning the wheel by hand, just from the pads. There should be no excessive binding at any wheel, no real struggle to turn them by hand.