Strong petrol smell

[chillyphil]

Hi All,

Out yesterday in the ZT-T 190+

Noticed a strong smell of petrol inside.

Checked the petrol can in the boot, it's ok.

Can't see any petrol or strong petrol smell under the bonnet.

This morning no petrol smell inside, slightly slower to start on the ignition, then smell returns.

Any thoughts on how to diagnose the problem or pointers on the likely direction of the problem?

Phil

[Yorkshire GOC]

Check the breather pipes under the engine cover they become brittle and fail -:shrug: .

[chillyphil]

Check the breather pipes under the engine cover they become brittle and fail -:shrug: .

Havnt done that before, are the under the plastic manifold cover?

[T-Cut]

I believe so. This might help.


https://www.mediafire.com/convkey/2696/7m7ha51a5e8n3l36g.jpg




The usual failure point is the plastic T-piece. If so, just replace that with a suitable part from eBay (aquarium supplies for example).


TC

[grout20]

Hello Phil

Last year on my V6 I had a petrol leak when one of the "O" rings on the end of the front fuel started weeping when the engine was running (ie the fuel system was at full pressure)

In my case it was the front rail, left hand side as you look under the bonnet, ie between the alternator and you looking at the engine. It was obvious ... I could see petrol dripping! :eek:

However, you did say no smell under your bonnet so it's probably not that. But have a look along the fuel rails for weeping petrol when the engine is running just to check. Turn off if you see some!

The other place I've had a problem when I first bought the car was the rubber seal where the fuel pump fits into the fuel tank, under the rear seat behind the drivers seat, had not been fitted properly by the previous owner. That allowed fumes to enter the cabin.

There is a similar seal for the filter under the rear seat behind the passenger seat. If either have been disturbed in the past then that may be your problem?

Try searching the Forum for posts / pictures on this.

Sorry for the long post. Hope this helps and you get sorted.

Cheers

John

[chillyphil]

Thanks Cyrano and John,

That gives me a great starting point.

I'll get into it on the weekend.

[T-Cut]

The in=tank pump and filter module/regulator seals are the same. Here's one:


https://www.mediafire.com/convkey/54fd/c05y1npwt4gazjc6g.jpg

The filter module seal in petrol models (LHS) often gets misfitted after work has been done to fix FFS (Fuel Filter Syndrome) in later models. The seals have to be fitted in a specific way to avoid leaks. These are often noticed after filling up with petrol, when sloshing in the tank causes petrol to flood onto the top of the tank. It's first noticed by a smell of petrol around the rear wheel arches.


TC

[chillyphil]

Thanks for that Cyrano,

I'll have go at the weekend, I'll start under the bonnet first, probably easier than man handling the back seat out.

Do you know if the back seat base removal is the same on the tourer as the saloon?

I've done a saloon before, but not a tourer.

Phil

[T-Cut]

Do you know if the back seat base removal is the same on the tourer as the saloon?


I've no idea, but tourer rear seats are frequenly discussed so a Google search may find what you need.


TC

[Comfortably Numb]

I had this problem when I first bought my CDT. No smell, but diesel started running around my feet when I first filled it to brim full. Previous owner's "mechanic" son had fitted a new ITP, and pushed half the gasket inside the tank.

[T-Cut]

There's a HowTo on the correct refitting of a tank module and rubber gasket if anyone's in that position.


TC

[chillyphil]

Hi All,

Managed to get some time to remove the manifold cover and have a look.

When ignition is on and fuel is pumping, there a is a substantial "drizzle" (is that a word?) of fuel from the end of the left side of the front fuel rail between the rad and the alternator.

I'll try to attach a picture below.

Can anyone give me some guidance on repairing this? Assuming it is repairable, or the replacement parts needed?

Phil

[vitesse]

[QUOTE=chillyphil;2769211]Hi All,

Managed to get some time to remove the manifold cover and have a look.

When ignition is on and fuel is pumping, there a is a substantial "drizzle" (is that a word?) of fuel from the end of the left side of the front fuel rail between the rad and the alternator.

I'll try to attach a picture below.

Can anyone give me some guidance on repairing this? Assuming it is repairable, or the replacement parts needed?

Phil[/QUOTE,]

Looks like the O rings have had it, have a look here: https://www.dmgrs.co.uk/products/kv6-fuel-rail-interconnect-pipe-o-ring-seal-kit-rover-75-mg-zt-rover-45-mg-zs?_pos=2&_sid=c146208d7&_ss=r

Regards

[chillyphil]

Thanks for that Mike,

Do you know if I need any special tools for this, or if there is a how to available?

Also, anything else I should be doing whilst on this job?

Phik

[vitesse]

From an ageing memory, no tools, just the clips that keep the ends pressed together. Only separated the fuel pipes once when doing my first thermostat change, now I don't bother. Others may be more enlightened.

Regards

[Blink]

The in=tank pump and filter module/regulator seals are the same. Here's one:


https://www.mediafire.com/convkey/54fd/c05y1npwt4gazjc6g.jpg

TC


TC - do you think it's worth changing these seals (in-tank pump and filter) as a precautionary measure? I ask because I've got the fuel tank out of the car and it would be the golden opportunity.

Or is it best to leave them well alone? (No sign of leakage from the existing ones but they are 18 years old).

[T-Cut]

TC - do you think it's worth changing these seals (in-tank pump and filter) as a precautionary measure?


I wouldn't personally. There's no need and they don't deteriorate. The only issue with them is from misfitting after removal.


TC

[grout20]

Hi All,
.....
Can anyone give me some guidance on repairing this? Assuming it is repairable, or the replacement parts needed?
Phil


Hello Phil

Sounds very similar to the leak I had, where I had to replace a couple of the "O" rings.

Not sure how to add a link here to the thread I posted last year. It had both my pictures and some from Arctic which will definitely help you.

Search for my thread "V6 Petrol Rail leak... advice please" and have a read.

Come back if you can't find it.

Good luck

John

[chillyphil]

Hi John,

Thanks for that.

I've found your post, I'm sure it'll be a great help.

I've ordered the o rings and I'll post when I have fitted them.

Phil

[Blink]

I wouldn't personally. There's no need and they don't deteriorate. The only issue with them is from misfitting after removal.

TC

TC - another thought occurs: should the filter be taken out of the tank and cleaned? If so, I might as well do it now before I put the tank back in the car.

(Phil - apologies for changing the subject).

[T-Cut]

TC - another thought occurs: should the filter be taken out of the tank and cleaned? It's not necessary if there's no specific issue with blockage from a major contamination. There's no way to clean it anyway and there's no renewal schedule either. The design provides for 'lifetime' service.

In the earlier system (which I think you have), the filter element itself isn't renewable. You have to replace the filter module complete, which is inordinatley expensive.

TC

[Blink]

It's not necessary if there's no specific issue with blockage from a major contamination. There's no way to clean it anyway and there's no renewal schedule either. The design provides for 'lifetime' service.

In the earlier system (which I think you have), the filter element itself isn't renewable. You have to replace the filter module complete, which is inordinatley expensive.

TC

Ok, thanks TC, I'll leave it alone then. (I was hoping you'd say that - saves me yet more work on this refurb :D).

Yes, mine's a 2002 75 Mk1 - tank assy is 2001 I think.

[T-Cut]

Yes, mine's a 2002 75 Mk1 - tank assy is 2001 I think.You can easily confirm it. Lift off the rear seat and open the LH floor hatch. You'll see the filter top. The earlier module has two plastic lifting loops on top. The later, problematic cap is a slightly domed top with a honeycomb pattern.


TC

[Blink]

You can easily confirm it. Lift off the rear seat and open the LH floor hatch. You'll see the filter top. The earlier module has two plastic lifting loops on top. The later, problematic cap is a slightly domed top with a honeycomb pattern.

TC

Mine's definitely the early type then, here it is out of the car.

https://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/forum/imagehosting/426635dad8c40d6ed3.jpg

I wondered what those two rings/loops were for.

(For reference, filter part numbers are here - https://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=48414 (https://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=48414))

PS. It's amazing how difficult it is to get all the fuel out of one of these tanks - I've tried everything bar taking the pump & filter off and there's still some in there.

[chillyphil]

Hi All,

Returning to the original thread...

I managed to replace the o ring which was leaking, many thanks to everyones help.

In the process I managed to break the T piece on the breather hose, I've used an 8mm t piece and some tape to make a temporary bodge, but obviously would like to do it properly.

Rimmers only seem to offer the whole breather hose assembly, which seems a waste as the hoses look to be ok.

Does anyone know where I could get the correct size t piece, looks around 10mm?

Phil

[T-Cut]

There are lots of plastic or brass T-pieces to suit this on eBay. Whether it is a 10mm or an 8mm size needs to be double checked by measuring it. Remember it's the hose bore that's important.


Example: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/8mm-Brass-3-Way-T-Piece-Joiner-Fuel-Hose-Joiner-Tee-Connector-Air-Water-Gas-BOV/111707531497?epid=1288852520&hash=item1a0249a8e9:g:pbIAAOSwHnFVkouQ


TC

[chillyphil]

Thanks for that.

Ordered 10mm brass t piece from Ebay, which arrived today.

Five minutes with a hot air gun to soften the hose and slide the t piece on, fits perfectly.

Many thanks for everyone's advice.

Phil

[Blink]

Thanks for that.

Ordered 10mm brass t piece from Ebay, which arrived today.

Five minutes with a hot air gun to soften the hose and slide the t piece on, fits perfectly.

Many thanks for everyone's advice.

Phil

Can you see what's caused the nylon T piece one to leak?

[chillyphil]

It was very brittle and took little twisting pressure to break.
When I was removing the remainder of the broken t piece, it was crumbling into little bits.
I'm assuming it was caused by aging plastic in a hot environment, trapped between the manifold and the plastic cover, it is a very hot environment.

The existing hoses seem supple and are not breaking when twisted, so I am hoping the brass replacement will be a long term fix.

[Blink]

It was very brittle and took little twisting pressure to break.
When I was removing the remainder of the broken t piece, it was crumbling into little bits.
I'm assuming it was caused by aging plastic in a hot environment, trapped between the manifold and the plastic cover, it is a very hot environment.

The existing hoses seem supple and are not breaking when twisted, so I am hoping the brass replacement will be a long term fix.

I don't trust those plastic t-pieces either. There's another one close by (opposite end of inlet manifold) - it's under the acoustic cover in a coolant hose near the engine lifting eye. That one gets pretty hot too. The third one - in the small hose from the expansion tank - isn't in such a hot place.

They should all be brass really - it's a much better idea.