Electric handbrake

[SCP440]

Who ever thought this was a good idea? He needs shooting and hanging.

I helped a friend with his car today with such a device. When you switch the car off the handbrake is automatically applied and this is the problem. You switch it off and you either are lucky enough to have an electronic device to put the handbrake in service mode and wind the pistons back or while it is running unplug the motors so the car cant put the brake on.

The first way is the preferable but not every one knows some one who has one of these devices and the second way can bring up a fault code that can only be cleared by the above tool.

You would presume if it was winding back the pistons electrically it would do the job properly, oh no you still need a piston wind back tool and because the motor is in the system was a complete mare and took a lot of patience, no wonder the dealer reckoned it was a 3 hour job and they have done it many times before.

If I was buying a newer car and there was a switch instead of a lever I would seriously consider my options as the car I did today had only covered 20k miles from new so this is going to be an ongoing job.

The more I see new cars the less I like them.

[macafee2]

You can also have the car roll back as the auto release kicks in and there is not enough power to drive up a hill. BMW X3 or X5 is guilty of this

macafee2

[coolguy]

Who ever thought this was a good idea? He needs shooting and hanging.

I helped a friend with his car today with such a device. When you switch the car off the handbrake is automatically applied and this is the problem. You switch it off and you either are lucky enough to have an electronic device to put the handbrake in service mode and wind the pistons back or while it is running unplug the motors so the car cant put the brake on.

The first way is the preferable but not every one knows some one who has one of these devices and the second way can bring up a fault code that can only be cleared by the above tool.

You would presume if it was winding back the pistons electrically it would do the job properly, oh no you still need a piston wind back tool and because the motor is in the system was a complete mare and took a lot of patience, no wonder the dealer reckoned it was a 3 hour job and they have done it many times before.

If I was buying a newer car and there was a switch instead of a lever I would seriously consider my options as the car I did today had only covered 20k miles from new so this is going to be an ongoing job.

The more I see new cars the less I like them.

I never liked any of them. That's why with 20 cars on my property, the newest was built in 2008. Hope they last me out!

[AndyN01]

Who ever thought this was a good idea? ......
The more I see new cars the less I like them.

The folks that believe that the art of driving should be dragged down to the level that an imbecile will be able to do it.

Why would you bother with all that revs/clutch biting point/hand on the handbrake and hold and release and balance the power and clutch ...... and off you go up the hill when some gizmo can do it all for you?

And the bean counters will love you 'cus it's just bolt a bit on and connect it up to the electrics without all that faff (i.e. cost) with brackets and cables and the like.

And the recovery firms love it 'cus if when it packs up it locks the wheels solid you're well and truly stuck (been there, done that).

And the dealers love it 'cus the replacement parts are £££'s and then there's the labour at £££££££££££'s and the electronic wizardry to set it up and make it all work at more £££££'s (fortunately mine was under warranty but I saw the internal invoice :eek:).

As my old Physics teacher used to say....QED. :}

[Norman2CV]

Electric handbrakes are the dread of my local garage as are head light bulbs that need the front bumper to be removed to change. To top it off then having to tell the computer you have fitted a new bulb !
My newest car is my '91 Volvo 940, easy to work on and built to last.
My local scrapyard is full of modern vehicles under 10 years old awaiting the crusher. They are disposable items, an environmental disaster .

[Gigagator]

The folks that believe that the art of driving should be dragged down to the level that an imbecile will be able to do it.

Why would you bother with all that revs/clutch biting point/hand on the handbrake and hold and release and balance the power and clutch ...... and off you go up the hill when some gizmo can do it all for you?

And the bean counters will love you 'cus it's just bolt a bit on and connect it up to the electrics without all that faff (i.e. cost) with brackets and cables and the like.

And the recovery firms love it 'cus if when it packs up it locks the wheels solid you're well and truly stuck (been there, done that).

And the dealers love it 'cus the replacement parts are £££'s and then there's the labour at £££££££££££'s and the electronic wizardry to set it up and make it all work at more £££££'s (fortunately mine was under warranty but I saw the internal invoice :eek:).

As my old Physics teacher used to say....QED. :}

There's a lot of tin foil hat stuff going on around here lately.

It is just seen as progress - there is no agenda or conspiracy to make more money.
I am sure the technology and components behind an electronic handbrake are actually more expensive to produce than a conventional mechanical parking brake hence why 'base models' and cheaper motors on the market today are still using a hand operated parking brake.

Don't forget, the vast majority of drivers on the road do not and will never do maintenance on their own vehicles so they couldn't care less about how easy it is to service their braking system.

If they break down, they will call their recovery service and it will be the recovery operator who has to worry about how to move the car.

Consumers just want the latest technology in exchange for their coin and a push button rather than a hand operated lever is seen as the 'in thing' so naturally, it will be adopted widely if that is what the majority of consumers seek.

Many features have been introduced to cars over the years that were seen as unnecessarily 'increasing costs and reducing reliability' such as when disc brakes replaced drum brakes or synchromesh started to be built into run of the mill gearboxes.

It was all in the name of progress whether it was asked for or not, it became standard and the industry quickly caught up and the technology was developed, improved and made affordable and more serviceable.

[polinsteve]

There is a difference. Parts of the braking system are consumables, so it is a regular high cost that instead of a 20 minute job to change pads, it ends up as a workshop task.

Disc brakes actually reduced maintenance, i.e. no regular adjustments required, so the initial extra cost is recouped many times over. In fact I don't think there is much difference in initial production costs.

Synchromesh just makes life marginally easier, it's not a ball breaker. Warn synchro just means changing gear with a bit less haste or maybe double de-clutching. It is not difficult to do or something that affects vehicle safety and needs an immediate resolution.

What is the reason for designing cars some of which take several hours to change a headlight bulb? Is automatic dipping of headlights effective or necessary? Time after time We get blinded by super-bright lights dipping after the blinding damage is done. Very rarely do they dip at road junctions with the result another unfortunate driver at right angles suffers.

Pointless design over function is expensive, un-necessary and reduces the economic lifespsan of a vehicle due to increasing costs and decreasing reliability.

[Gigagator]

My local scrapyard is full of modern vehicles under 10 years old awaiting the crusher. They are disposable items, an environmental disaster .

But this has always been the case.
My local scrappy is full and the cars range from early 90's to yes, I suppose about 2010/2011 but that is nothing new.

I know people that had to scrap their Itals and Montegos after 7 years because the corrosion had got so bad.

Regardless of the generation of vehicle, cars to most people will always be viewed as an appliance to be used hard and then disposed of.
Not everyone is like us - I don't know many people that form an emotional attachment to cars and I know even fewer people who are happy (or have the knowledge/facilities/tools) to do their own servicing.

[Gigagator]

There is a difference. Parts of the braking system are consumables, so it is a regular high cost that instead of a 20 minute job to change pads, it ends up as a workshop task.

Disc brakes actually reduced maintenance, i.e. no regular adjustments required, so the initial extra cost is recouped many times over.

Synchromesh just makes life marginally easier, it's not a ball breaker. Warn synchro just means changing gear with a bit less haste or maybe double de-clutching. It is not difficult to do or something that affects vehicle safety and needs an immediate resolution.

What is the reason for designing cars some of which take several hours to change a headlight bulb? Is automatic dipping of headlights effective or necessary? Time after time We get blinded by super-bright lights dipping after the blinding damage is done.
Very rarely do they dip at road junctions with the result another unfortunate driver at right angles suffers.

Pointless design over function is expensive, un-necessary and reduces the economic lifespsan of a vehicle due to increasing costs and decreasing reliability.

I do agree that the difficulty of changing a bulb is not something to be lauded.
I have a 2019 Mazda 6 and I decided to change the DRL bulbs for something brighter - after being perplexed for a while it turns out you have to remove the arch liner on each side (or at least pull it away) but it was still a struggle.
It was completely unnecessary for it to be that complicated and it left me dreading doing that job again.

However, nobody designing that car thought "Ah let's make this bulb hard to change, we will rake in the cash."

It's just a 'form over function' type situation.
If you design the wings, bumper, headlight and bonnet to look and fit together a certain way, a compromise has to be made and most customers would prefer a sharp looking vehicle to one that is easy to change a bulb on.

Unfortunately, that is just a fact of the world we live in - style sells.
Otherwise, everyone would still be driving around in a Lada.

I can't argue the other points as I don't disagree.
I've not been on the receiving end of being blinded by a poor auto-dipping system.

There are still people that say you're not a proper driver if you're using a car with synchromesh. But I'm sure most of us would agree (unless we were being really flippant) that having synchro on your daily driver is just a sensible part of life.

[clf]

Having the sex9ndaey fuse box under the main fuse box as in some.meganes may make life easier for the assembly line, it bore no thought to the technicians (not mechanic) who had to trace a fault or simply replace a fuse. But it did add to the dealers bottom.line for time. 2 hours labour to change a 5 amp fuse?

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[polinsteve]

I've driven countless years and miles with crashbox vehicles and even now, drop into double declutching when necessary. As an ex bus driver on rural routes with old vehicles, I spent many hours "playing" when the bus was empty. On our 5 speed crashbox Bristols I would just go up and down on the box throwing in various block changes. On our Leyland Leopards fun could be had with the 2 speed Eton axle. I would start off 1st low to 1st high ratio to 2nd low and so on. Driving was fun and a challenge. I finished on Mercedes Bendis which were literally just stick into "D" and point. No fun or feeling of achievement.

[Gigagator]

I've driven countless years and miles with crashbox vehicles and even now, drop into double declutching when necessary. As an ex bus driver on rural routes with old vehicles, I spent many hours "playing" when the bus was empty. On our 5 speed crashbox Bristols I would just go up and down on the box throwing in various block changes. On our Leyland Leopards fun could be had with the 2 speed Eton axle. I would start off 1st low to 1st high ratio to 2nd low and so on. Driving was fun and a challenge. I finished on Mercedes Bendis which were literally just stick into "D" and point. No fun or feeling of achievement.

While I can't quite relate to that extent (though I wish I could, sounds like my idea of a good time) I do agree that the manual engagement is far more enjoyable.

When I was younger I used to make a day of taking my Alfa 147 and then Alfa MiTo up to the B roads in the Brecon Beacons and hooning around. Really good fun.

I'm older now though and when it came to buying my current car (2019 Mazda 6) I had a choice to make - manual or automatic.

My constant worry of the hydraulics on my 75 clutch going 'pop' was one reason to sway me towards an auto box,

The other reason was that I spend most of my driving time stuck in traffic in and around Cardiff and my clutch knee used to take a hammering.
It's made life much easier and my commute far more endearing.

Again, times change and circumstances change.
What was once the order of the day may not be so tomorrow.

[Gigagator]

Actually, on that note, the electric handbrake in my Mazda 6 is a joy to use in city driving.

It has a switchable 'auto hold' mode so when I come to a stop, foot down on the brake pedal, it will engage the handbrake automatically and shut the engine off with the Stop & Start (can be disabled if you are so inclined).

Some lights come on in the instrument cluster to tell you the brake is holding and the engine is stopped.

Then when the lights go green, a gentle blip on the throttle wakes the engine up, takes the handbrake off and away you are.

It makes driving more relaxing which is welcome after a hard days work.

I changed the front brake discs and pads which was easy as you'd expect as the pads were getting low and there was a slight lip on the discs.
I was happy with the price thanks to a sale on at EuroCarParts - I got a set of Brembo discs and pads for £140.
The Mazda dealer wanted about £250 to replace the pads only and grind the lip off the discs.

I haven't had to do anything to the rear brakes yet but it doesn't bother me, I have a few pals who probably have a gadget for retracting the electronic brake. If not they appear to be cheap enough on Amazon and the Bay of E.

[AndyN01]

Actually, on that note, the electric handbrake in my Mazda 6.......

And right there is the important bit. If you are as fortunate with your Mazda as we are with ours then you can look forward to 8 years and 90K miles with virtually nothing actually going "wrong" - just normal wear & tear items. :bowdown:

Fingers crossed for you. :}

[robbrooks]

I've just paid out £126 for a re-conditioned calliper because of the electric brake. To cut a long story short , it was an accident , but wouldn't have happened with a manual handbrake. There is a fiddly procedure to de-activate during servicing and it involves holding the accelerator down. I became confused and pressed the brake pedal which resulted in a piston ejection!
Fuming. The procedure involves doing 3 things together which I'm never good at. A bit like rubbing your tummy and your head simultaneously!:duh:

[MissMoppet]

And right there is the important bit. If you are as fortunate with your Mazda as we are with ours then you can look forward to 8 years and 90K miles with virtually nothing actually going "wrong" - just normal wear & tear items. :bowdown:

Fingers crossed for you. :}


My last Mazda 6 was stuttering so my local main dealer charged me £200 "for reading the error codes"; £600+ for what I later learned was a MAF sensor. Having got the car back I found I could have had a Denso sensor for less than £40. We then got involved in lengthy correspondence where they claimed "we go to great lengths to fit only the best parts." So that was the last Mazda I bought.

[Grahamcfc]

Who ever thought this was a good idea? He needs shooting and hanging.

I helped a friend with his car today with such a device. When you switch the car off the handbrake is automatically applied and this is the problem. You switch it off and you either are lucky enough to have an electronic device to put the handbrake in service mode and wind the pistons back or while it is running unplug the motors so the car cant put the brake on.

The more I see new cars the less I like them.

The wife's 2010 Astra has one but you can switch on the ignition, release the handbrake, switch off again and it stays off so no problem.
My son's 2011 Astra estate had one but on his 2017 replacement they had gone back to a manual handbrake. Not sure if that's true on all models.

Graham

[AndyN01]

My last Mazda 6 was stuttering so my local main dealer charged me £200 "for reading the error codes"; £600+ for what I later learned was a MAF sensor. Having got the car back I found I could have had a Denso sensor for less than £40. We then got involved in lengthy correspondence where they claimed "we go to great lengths to fit only the best parts." So that was the last Mazda I bought.

Sorry to hear about your experience.

Isn't it fascinating that many of us have "history" with certain manufacturers and/or dealerships and pretty much without exception the result is that whoever it is never deals with them again.

I wonder how much business/profit has been lost over the years by the "service" given out :shrug:.

And if anyone in those businesses is in the least bit bothered/worried.

[SCP440]

And if anyone in those businesses is in the least bit bothered/worried.

The problem is a lot of businesses dont think to the future, my father in the 70's until the early 90's used to buy about 30 to 40 cars a year for his business, he had been buying a variety of makes over the years but as soon as a manufacturer started to let him down on warranty work or service he would look to other manufacturers, he had been buying Renaults for 4 or 5 years and then he had a batch of Friday pm specials. The dealer did his best but Renault UK were not interested and he started buying BL, several trouble free years and then the local main dealer changed ownership and it was a catalogue of disasters so Ford were the favourite and stayed that way until he retired in the mid 90s.

In my book if a customer is spending that kind of money annually he needs looking after even if you have to take a hit for a year.

[The Rovering Member]

We hired a brand new VW transporter a few weeks back. It had the stop/start function actuated by the clutch pedal.
I was surprised to find that l got used to it almost immediately.

[shasbat3]

Who ever thought this was a good idea? He needs shooting and hanging.

I helped a friend with his car today with such a device. When you switch the car off the handbrake is automatically applied and this is the problem. You switch it off and you either are lucky enough to have an electronic device to put the handbrake in service mode and wind the pistons back or while it is running unplug the motors so the car cant put the brake on.

The first way is the preferable but not every one knows some one who has one of these devices and the second way can bring up a fault code that can only be cleared by the above tool.

You would presume if it was winding back the pistons electrically it would do the job properly, oh no you still need a piston wind back tool and because the motor is in the system was a complete mare and took a lot of patience, no wonder the dealer reckoned it was a 3 hour job and they have done it many times before.

If I was buying a newer car and there was a switch instead of a lever I would seriously consider my options as the car I did today had only covered 20k miles from new so this is going to be an ongoing job.

The more I see new cars the less I like them.

The answer is to press and hold the park brake button down and then switch the engine off. Make sure the car can’t roll away though.

[genpk]

its rather strange to look back as to how cars and its culture has changed over the years.
When cars became a affordable mode of transport with mass production in the 1930s car clubs started up all over the place with society viewing new mobility and freedom as a social event and social status.
Everyone wanted one so they could be mobile.
Then as time went on, alot of those clubs became more enthusiast clubs, restoring cars etc.
These days cars are viewed as a consumer able item by part of society and now we are seeing a generation who dont even see the need to own a car as they can get mobility by other means and dont have a great desire to drive.
A changing world !!!

[SCP440]

The answer is to press and hold the park brake button down and then switch the engine off. Make sure the car can’t roll away though.

Sadly that wont work on this car, as soon as you switch the ignition off the handbrake goes on. We tried several ways but all the ''tricks'' that were suggested failed.

[clf]

Sadly that wont work on this car, as soon as you switch the ignition off the handbrake goes on. We tried several ways but all the ''tricks'' that were suggested failed.Reading that it reminds me of park mode in my old renault 5 wipers. Switch the car off, and the wipers returned to the off position, it had it's own dedicated fuse for this, as it was a permanent live, whereas the wiper switch/stalk had a separate fuse on a switched circuit. Perhaps the handbrake has a similar separate 'park' function fuse and switched fuse (ie with ignition on) also? Removal of switched one would disable its 'live' operation, whilst switching off the car would still operate the handbrake.

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[Phil th Barrow]

Th reason i like th electric hand brake;

It works...

Th reason i dont;

is when i opened th door whilst going over a large hump to check for ground clearance it came on whilst i was moving (shock) Also if i dont dry my wifes hand brake after a jet wash they stick on th next day or so. After a jet wash i descend a long hill with it on thus drying it out. Perfect.