Retrofit Message Centre - definitive answers

[CDTi]

There seems to be a lot of interest in this retrofit and there are numerous threads both here and on .org on the subject. I have just spent several hours reading threads on both sites and I am now more confused than when I started :shrug:. I've started this thread here to try and get all the info in one place. (Mods can delete my previous thread http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=4095 as more info will hopefully be posted here)

OK, here goes – I have a facelift CDTi Classic SE without a message centre IPK. I just bought a message centre IPK from eBay for £102. It was listed as new and should be a bargain if it can be programmed to my car. When temporarily fitted to my car it showed 00000000 miles, so I believe it is new. The EPC shows the following IPKs for my VIN number:

MPH, trip computer YAC112393N
MPH, trip computer YAC003790LNF
MPH - High Line YAC003630LNF
MPH - High Line YAC003890LNF
MPH - Low Line YAC003650LNF
MPH - Low Line YAC003910LNF

The part number I bought is YAC003790LNF. Mike gave me further info on that part as follows (thanks Mike)

Instruments - Diesel.
YAC003790LNF Instrument pack - MPH, amber, panel illumination, trip computer

Attributes
From Year/Prefix 3D
From VIN 281592

While I haven't had it T4'ed yet I have plugged it in and it works, although it shows the following errors:

trip distance "err" - I think this is to be expected until it is T4'ed
Self levelling suspension error - my car doesn't have self levelling suspension
traction control error - my car doesn't have traction control


Over on .org, Keith said that the T4 will set the codes in the IPK to those of your my car, so those errors should disappear.

Now for some questions:


Is it possible to have the Message Centre display without the trip computer? I always thought they were one in the same , but 1 or 2 members here seem to have the dot matrix display but no stalk button. I have also seen at least one IPK on eBay that lists a part number that shows "less trip computer" on the EPC but clearly has the dot matrix display.
Where does the button on the stalk connect to? Several contributors have said that "any switch will do". I plan on using one of the redundant CC buttons on my wheel for controlling the message centre. I though that there would be a "spare" connector on the steering column to connect to the stalk connector but I have checked and there isn't. Both CC buttons give +12V on the rotary coupler when pressed, so I will use a relay or transistor switch to emulate the stalk button. The other spare button I hope to use as a kind of "shift" button for my CarPC i.e. double up the ICE controls for CarPC functions.. But thats another project....
Johndotcom mentioned that some IPKs have an extra display for traction control info etc and that these are different to others. If this is the case, then keep an eye on eBay because I may have a problem!


Finally, how long should it take on T4 to get the new IPK programmed? I just found out that my nearest MGR dealer no longer has a T4 so I will have to drive about 60 miles to have it done. I would like to have as much info as possible before I go so as not to be fobbed off with some excuse from an unknown dealer.

Thanks Guys.

[CDTi]

After spending several hours looking at Rave, Owners and Haynes manuals, I can now answer some of my own questions:

1. Is it possible to have the Message Centre display without the trip computer? I always thought they were one in the same , but 1 or 2 members here seem to have the dot matrix display but no stalk button. I have also seen at least one IPK on eBay that lists a part number that shows "less trip computer" on the EPC but clearly has the dot matrix display.

Rave and the Owners Handbook clearly state that there are only two types of clusters i.e. those with the dot matrix display and those without. I cannot explain the discrepancies cited in my question



Where does the button on the stalk connect to? Several contributors have said that "any switch will do". I plan on using one of the redundant CC buttons on my wheel for controlling the message centre. I though that there would be a "spare" connector on the steering column to connect to the stalk connector but I have checked and there isn't.
Pin 9 on IPK plug C233 is the stalk input button. The cable colour should be yellow/black. This should be grounded when the stalk button is pressed. The stalk switch is C0036 with pin 1 at ground and pin 4 connected to pin 9 on the IPK. So if I want to use a CC switch I can either use a simple transistor switch to invert the +12V on the rotary coupler (pins 4 or 5) or change the wiring inside the steering wheel so that the switches give 0V.


Nothing on Q3 yet or on how long it should take.


All this work may be in vain, however as I am having great difficulty in finding a MGR garage with a T4 (see http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=4288). Fingers crossed :)

[Phil]

I think Keith said his V8 had the message centre without the button and had limited functionality.

[Zeb]

Mine has the message centre and no stalk button too...:(

[Phil]

I'm sure Keith just changed the stalk with one with the button and full functionality followed.

[Keith]

I think Keith said his V8 had the message centre without the button and had limited functionality.

Yep when I bought it I noticed it had the Hi-Line instruments fitted but no button. Soon sorted that out, got a stalk with button for free from a local guy breaking a car.

As for how long, it takes T4 about 5 minutes to rewrite to the new cluster set up time will be longer though.

Re 3 the message centre is just a matrix it will show whatever is sent to it based on the cars coding

[Simon]

If I recall, quite a few cars are fitted with the "Message Centre" IPK as part of the HighLine or Lo-Line SatNav options. This does not mean you have the trip computer (aka Button on stalk) feature too. This "Trip Computer" is another option that (as a new car) you could have ordered.

If you have a HighLine instrument cluster (ie those with LoLine/HighLine setups etc) and you do not have a Trip Computer, all you need to do is source a suitable stalk with the button on the end, fitting this will give you full trip computer functionality.

Somethings to note, however:
1. If you have a V8, then the Trip Computer has limited functionality - you can't do anything about this, it's just the way the V8's are.
2. Fitting a second-hand IPK into a car is nigh-on impossible due to the IPK's are VIN-coded to your car plus they contain mileage data. A second-hand IPK will simply refuse to work properly in anything other than the car it was originally fitted too.

Once you have your brand-new IPK you can indeed get it set-up on T4. The dealer will probably charge you an hours labour because that is the usual minium rate and standard practice. The time taken though should only be a few minutes. All is needed is to download the data from your original IPK (using T4), fit the new IPK and then upload your cars data to the new IPK.

All that is then needed is to either find a second-hand stalk (don't bother with a brand new one, they are silly silly money) or use a suitable button as an alternative as CDTi has suggested.

Hope this helps :)


EDIT: Beaten to the reply by Keith, who seems to have said all I said but much shorter... Doh!

[Keith]

Not quite Simon, T4 can't download diddly!
It is actually even easier, bolt in new IKE plug in T4 it throws a wobbly stating Vin mismatches blah blah etc.

It should Identify IKE is incorrectly coded to the car and offer to recode it.
Provided IKE is new or has <100 miles on it (or something like that) it reads the cars ZCS codes all identical and stored in half a dozen ECUs and writes them to the new IKE. It also reads the cars mileage from the backup held in the LSM and writes that, job done

That is my understanding anyway

[Simon]

Ah well, even easier then.

The information I got was just accumilated from various sources so I stand corrected :)

Initial problem (well, not problem but more investment) is the outlay for a new (or nearly-new) IPK. They don't come cheap the last time I looked.... :(

[Keith]

there is another possibilty
Getting a matching LSM and IKE from the same car and just accepting the mileage they contain

[Simon]

there is another possibilty
Getting a matching LSM and IKE from the same car and just accepting the mileage they contain

You would have to get the mileage the same as your car, or as near to it.

Is there a law about altering the mileage data on a vehicle? Specifically, is it illegal to change the mileage data on a car? We wouldn't want Mr.Plod come knocking on our doors saying we've been naughty.... :oops: :unlucky:

[CDTi]

If I recall, quite a few cars are fitted with the "Message Centre" IPK as part of the HighLine or Lo-Line SatNav options. This does not mean you have the trip computer (aka Button on stalk) feature too. This "Trip Computer" is another option that (as a new car) you could have ordered.
Isn't this a bit daft i.e. having the trip computer actually fitted but unable to access it due to the absence of a button. Marketing gone crazy...



It should Identify IKE is incorrectly coded to the car and offer to recode it.
Provided IKE is new or has <100 miles on it (or something like that) it reads the cars ZCS codes all identical and stored in half a dozen ECUs and writes them to the new IKE. It also reads the cars mileage from the backup held in the LSM and writes that, job done

That is my understanding anyway
Thats what I need to know, Keith, for when I'm talking to a service tech. Is it a very specialised job on T4 or should anyone who can use a T4 be able to use it? Is IKE the same as IPK? What does ZCS stand for?



there is another possibilty
Getting a matching LSM and IKE from the same car and just accepting the mileage they contain
Wouldn't the VIN still be different



Thanks again for all the expert knowledge. Where would we be without the gurus :bowdown:

[Simon]

IPK and IKE are one and the same ;)

ZCS = something or other but it's the major codes that tell the car what it is, what options are fitted and all that.

VIN codes would be different, but from what I understand T4 will re-program these (somone correct me if I'm wrong about this). It won't reprogram the mileage data though as this is protected and cannot be re-written using T4.

[Keith]

Vin is also held in all main ECUS and I think it is read from there along with the ZCS codes during coding of a replacement. You are also supposed to type it in for each T4 session but people rarely do unless in cases where it might be needed like your exercise then I would definitely type it in first

I did that when replacing Austin Toveys BCU the other day

Simon as for mileage it might be ill eagle for an Arthur Daley type to clock a car and misrepresent it but a private owner can do as he likes.
MOT and V5 history may show a discrepancy if the difference is huge but that then just becomes an explaining exercise at selling up time, keeping records might help.

Anyway swapping both IKE and LSM is just a theory I have, no doubt someone will try it one day then we will know.

[CDTi]

Good news! - I found a former dealer with a T4 about 20 miles away and I am booked in @3 pm today. Bad news is its €100 (£60 sterling) for the priviledge :SHOCKED: . I don't mind paying if it works. Hopefully the techie knows how to use it! Wish me luck..

[Keith]

Whilst there (and to be safe) ask for a printout of the cars current GM SA and VN codes (they will understand)

Always worth having for the future

Note
Don't worry part of the SA code will change if you get them to enable other things whilst there like lazy locking.

Charging an hour is fair, Job will probably take 30 minutes to do plus you need to pay for the behind the scenes stuff booking and invoicing time etc even a simple piece of work in any business probably involves half a dozen people by the time it goes on the books.

I claimed £5 expenses for lunch a few days ago, god knows how much that expense will actually cost to process by the bean counters :)

[CDTi]

Whilst there (and to be safe) ask for a printout of the cars current GM SA and VN codes (they will understand)

Always worth having for the future

Note
Don't worry part of the SA code will change if you get them to enable other things whilst there like lazy locking.

Charging an hour is fair, Job will probably take 30 minutes to do plus you need to pay for the behind the scenes stuff booking and invoicing time etc even a simple piece of work in any business probably involves half a dozen people by the time it goes on the books.

Thanks for the advice, Keith.

I plan on having most of the removal work done before I go to the garage - so only the single screw at the top of the IPK to remove. That should speed thing up a bit.

BTW was the T4 ever updated? The reason I ask is because my 75 is a facelift so were there any changes made to for my car? Hopefully not.


I claimed £5 expenses for lunch a few days ago, god knows how much that expense will actually cost to process by the bean counters
I work for the Government and you wouldn't believe the red tape surrounding even the most paltry of expenditure!

[Keith]

T4 as a machine has been about quite a while the RDS application and the Car specific Data CDs were regularly released. These included T4 bug fixes e.g routines to better handle comms errors etc or updates to fault finding info and very occasionally engine ECU maps for emissions etc.

The latest Data CD I have is DST0005 for the 75 and ZT. I would be interested to know if they have a later one

[CDTi]

The latest Data CD I have is DST0005 for the 75 and ZT. I would be interested to know if they have a later one
I will find out but my worry is that they may have an older version and it will not work on my facelift. Unfortunately I'll have my two sons with me (aged 3 and 5) so my ability to have a natter with the techie and look at what he is doing will be somewhat limited. I suppose I could lock the kids in the boot for a while!

There were not too many facelifts sold here in Ireland so I don't know if the dealers ever got the latest cds.

[CDTi]

I'm back from the garage and guess what - it worked :hurray: The cost was €100 as previously stated but plus VAT :mad:, so a total of €113 (£75 sterling). I asked for the codes as Keith suggested (I even wrote it down!) but I didn't get them. The techie mumbled something about codes not needing changing so he couldn't print them. I don't know if what he said was true or if he couldn't/wouldn't do it.

The whole operation took about 20 minutes. I was informed that I wasn't insured in the workshop and politely asked to leave. I really would have liked to see the T4 in operation.

So anyhow job is done and I'm delighted . Total cost was £102 for the unit, £12 postage and £75 programming so £189 - less than half the cost of a new unit. Two last jobs to do on the fit now i.e. change the clocks overlay to my old one (the old one is Km/h) and fit the switch.

Thanks again for all the help and advice.

[Keith]

Techie could not be botherd to print them that is all I put a bit more effort in when I have people round.

Anyway I told you it would all work, now you just need to fathom out how to get the digital speedo function that I have on my 260 to work in your car ;)

[CDTi]

Anyway I told you it would all work, now you just need to fathom out how to get the digital speedo function that I have on my 260 to work in your car ;)
I never doubted you for a minute Keith :D. Seriously though, your expertise on all things T4 is invaluable on this forum.

As for the digi speedo - my next job on the 75 is a carPC. I actually have the bits for it but this IPK was an unexpected distraction for a few days. One of my plans for the PC is OBD2 with a full screen of guages etc. I hope to do a "how to" on the fit when I get around to it.

I have now fitted the old overlay to the new IPK and it looks the dogs bits - even if I do say so myself!. I had to carve the overlays a bit as the new IPK needs a square window for the screen. I cut this window from the new mph overlay and taped it to the old km/h one. To illustrate what I mean, I have attached a few pics to show both this and the finished job. Pic 1 shows the new overlay with the old "window". This is now fitted to the old IPK and stored away for spares (or eBay :) ). Pic 2 shows the finsihed fit with the old km/h overlay and square window fitted to the car.

And finally pic 3 shows why all 75s should have been diesels ;) . I used a temporary switch on the indicator stalk to activate the trip computer. It shows the fuel consumption comsumption over the 40 km (25 miles) back from the garage. 5.0L/100km is 57 mpg :D :D :D . Even if the calculation is a bit on the generous side, its still outstanding economy.edit - I have a TU3B fitted and I have just discovered that it causes the fuel computer to miscalculate

What a car...

[CDTi]

JOB FINISHED!!

Installed a transistor switch this evening so the 'Set +' CC button is now the trip computer button. Works a treat :D

One thing I noticed on the wiring diagram is that the CC buttons are wired to the negative side of the horn relay i.e. the side that is grounded when one of the horn buttons is pressed. This doesn't affect my transistor switch as the current draw is so small.

Is this some kind of safety feature or something? Basically it means that the CC buttons will not work if the horn button is pressed. Not that I can imagine why would want to do that :confused:

Maybe I should :getmecoat:

[Chilljohn]

glad it worked :) , i tried doing as you did with the switch but i eneded up getting a stalk due to odd probs, keep your eye out at the breakers or ebay i got one for £5

[JohnDotCom]

There was/is a Company on EBay advertising resetting of ZTs & 75s to any required mileage.
It says using latest German equipment that Permanently resets the mileage in all ECU's and Backups.
It is legal to do as long as you are not doing it to give a false impression or to increase the value of car.
Better watch out on buying some of these electronic mileage indicated cars.
Does a whole list of makes, either comes to you or you can go to their garages.
Is this really Legal, all seems a bit iffy?

[CDTi]

There was/is a Company on EBay advertising resetting of ZTs & 75s to any required mileage.
It says using latest German equipment that Permanently resets the mileage in all ECU's and Backups.
It is legal to do as long as you are not doing it to give a false impression or to increase the value of car.
Better watch out on buying some of these electronic mileage indicated cars.
Does a whole list of makes, either comes to you or you can go to their garages.
Is this really Legal, all seems a bit iffy?
Have you seen this?

http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=636

tony fry couldn't get it sorted.

I'm sure it can be done, though.

[tony_fry]

CDTi

Still got the same problem with the "Err" message the tech who changed the milage to the correct milage has now given up with the "Err" and given me a refund. So I have the correct milage showing but it looks like I have have to put up with the "Err".

If any one knows anything different I would love to know about it.

[CDTi]

CDTi

Still got the same problem with the "Err" message the tech who changed the milage to the correct milage has now given up with the "Err" and given me a refund. So I have the correct milage showing but it looks like I have have to put up with the "Err".

If any one knows anything different I would love to know about it.
I wonder would a brand new LSM cure the problem?

[Christopher]

I still think a donor IPK AND LSM changed together might do the trick - it depends on if T4 looks elsewhere to find the VIN number ... if it doesn't it might be fooled ;)

[tony_fry]

It might, I don't want to go to the expense of anew LSM if it does not work, I am not usre what sort of price they are? does anyone know

[Christopher]

AFAIK - it is NOT illegal to change the mileage, it is then illegal to try and sell on the car without stating the mileage has been changed (and hence trying to falsify the wear and tear on the car by default).

[tony_fry]

Its a shame I did not get the LSM when I brought the doner IPK, I have already checked with breakers and they do hot have it anymore

[CDTi]

New LSM here:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ROVER-75-LIGHT-SWITCH-MODULE-WITH-FOG-LIGHT-SWITCH-NEW_W0QQitemZ270105355403QQcategoryZ10414QQssPageN ameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

£21 ATM

[tony_fry]

Thanks CDTi, I will bid on it, Hopefully i'll win it and give it a try again

[CDTi]

Thanks CDTi, I will bid on it, Hopefully i'll win it and give it a try again

Its worth a try, Tony, but I wouldn't spend too much on it as its a gamble really.

Does your cluster now show the correct mileage (thanks to the mileage change techie) ? So its only the trip is wrong?

[tony_fry]

Yep everything is working apart from the "err" on the trip

[Christopher]

could be they have changed the mileage by "brute force" but the VIN is mismatched with the LSM hence causing the "err"?? A brand new LSM *might* then take the VIN from the IPK and you may be lucky ... you will need to go on T4 I am sure lots of if's and maybe's but you never know!! - good luck! ;)

[tony_fry]

Well I'v taken the pluge, lets hope no outbids me, gotta head off home how, it been a long old day

[CDTi]

could be they have changed the mileage by "brute force" but the VIN is mismatched with the LSM hence causing the "err"?? A brand new LSM *might* then take the VIN from the IPK and you may be lucky ... you will need to go on T4 I am sure lots of if's and maybe's but you never know!! - good luck! ;)
Is the "err" caused by the incorrect VIN or mileage. Or both?

I might try replacing my old IPK in a few hundred miles to see if it shows an "err". I would imagine it should...

[Christopher]

Is the "err" caused by the incorrect VIN or mileage. Or both?

I might try replacing my old IPK in a few hundred miles to see if it shows an "err". I would imagine it should...

Pretty sure both would - I think the protocol is that the VIN is first checked and if that matches out the mileage is checked. Pretty sure either being out would cause an "Err" to appear. Even though an error appears and anyone hooking up to T4 will get an error message, the mileage on teh IPK will continue to count up as normal (the err condition will remain). So what I conjecture is that the mileage on the IPK eeprom was changed, the VIN not. The IPK - LSM don't talk to each, cause an err condition, but the mileage counts merrily on - although the backup mileage to the LSM is not taking place ...

Pure conjecture on my part though ...

[CDTi]

Looks like we will know soon if it works as Tony won the auction :clap:

I bought my new IPK and wooden wheel from the same Seller. He posts his items very fast so Tony should have it soon enough.

I think its worth the £25.75 (p&p inc) to see if it works. If it doesn't, it can be sold again on eBay.

Hope all goes well, Tony.

[tony_fry]

Thanks fo rthe help CDTi, I will post an answer when I get it fited and the T4 run on it

[Simon]

Basically it means that the CC buttons will not work if the horn button is pressed. Not that I can imagine why would want to do that :confused:

Maybe I should :getmecoat:

Would this cause the CC to de-activate when the horn is pressed? Could be a saftey feature, afterall - if you need to press the horn you ought to have slowed down to some sort of imminent danger....? :shrug:

[CDTi]

Would this cause the CC to de-activate when the horn is pressed? Could be a saftey feature, afterall - if you need to press the horn you ought to have slowed down to some sort of imminent danger....? :shrug:
I thought it was some kind of safety feature also. But the CC buttons are momentary only - not latching.

What it does mean is that the steering CC controls cannot be operated while actually blowing the horn.

Maybe someone with CC control in their car may be able to throw some light on this? It does seem a rather strange way of sourcing 12V within the steering wheel :confused:

[tony_fry]

Just changed the LSM, still got "Err" on the display and now I get the "Bulb Failer" on the display, when I turn the side lights on I get main beam as well as side lights? I am not sure if the T4 will correct this problem, or is it a faulty LSM that I brought of eBay?
Can any one give any more information?
Thank Tony

[CDTi]

Just changed the LSM, still got "Err" on the display and now I get the "Bulb Failer" on the display, when I turn the side lights on I get main beam as well as side lights? I am not sure if the T4 will correct this problem, or is it a faulty LSM that I brought of eBay?
Can any one give any more information?
Thank Tony

Leaving aside the "err" issue, the other problems are very strange. Maybe its some kind of safety thing or clocking deterrent? i.e. you have to T4 the new LSM or you get these problems.

I'd say Keith (who else!) is your best man to answer this.

[tony_fry]

Thanks CDTi, do you know how I could contact "Keith"? I woudl like to get this sorted out for once and all

[JohnDotCom]

Just Drop him (keith) a PM, he is about most days, but does get very busy with work sometimes.

[CDTi]

Just Drop him (keith) a PM, he is about most days, but does get very busy with work sometimes.
Wot

Apologies for not explaining who Keith is, Tony.

He is our resident guru on all thing T4, sat nav etc.

[tony_fry]

Thanks for all the help CTDi, I have emailed and PM Keith to see what he can suggest. Does he have the T4 unit?

[JohnDotCom]

Yes keith does have his own T4 and allows member use for a very reasonable charge, subject to time and availabilty.

[CDTi]

Does he have the T4 unit?
He certainly does!

edit - got there before me, John

[tony_fry]

Thanks everyone, does any one know what area Keith is ? I ma on Dartford SE Kent. As soon as I hear from Keith and hopefully he will be able to help me I will let you all know if the faults are fixed.

[JohnDotCom]

Yes CDTi, but only just. ;)
Always better to have more responses than none. :)

[JohnDotCom]

Tony he's in Ellesmere, North Shropshire. So not really local to you.

[tony_fry]

OMG, thats 3 hours drive for me each way :( , pehaps I will have to try a loal dealers, who will rip the of me, but I want to get the problem sorted out one way or another

[Keith]

Tony I have just read your PM

Potentially in theory and maybe with a following wind ;) it might work
I am not sure primarily because you have already let some have ago at the Cluster so it could now be a bit of an unknown entity

When fitting a brand new Cluster it is coded to the car and the mileage is read from the LSM so if an LSM fails the reverse should be true but that then assumes the cluster is A ok, in your case it is not so you are in a situation where both must be coded to the car, could be tricky!

Even if the cluster has been successfully "got at" to reset the mileage it would still need to go on T4 to be coded

No harm in trying, first job is to get the new cluster coded to the car with existing LSM so that at least the Vin and the ZCS codes match then add the new LSM and maybe as part of the coding it will read the mileage from the new cluster and all will be fine.

Next step is to run the dealer configuration option to re establish the guide me home function you had set up for the lights

Lastly will be to find out if the lamp failure light is still coming on, it could be a coding problem as in the unit is new and uncoded or it could even be the unit is faulty or you do have a lamp fault or even the new LSM is looking for lamps you don't have e.g do you have front fog lights?

Nearest people to you that might be brave enough to do this all for you are executive motoring services in Upchurch but the work will not be cheap as you are going to be paying for a fair degree of time as they work through the various requirements.

I personally would not take on an exercise like this except on my own car. I do this for a hobby and in no way would willing to risk messing up someone elses car experimenting as I don't have the support structure and resources of a business if things go horribly wrong :)

[tony_fry]

Thanks for the info Keith, all the lights seem to be working ok, I do have front fog lights all the lights seem to be ok, when I switch off the ignition it shows head lights failed? but they are working fine.

I will have to take to a garage :mad:

[CDTi]

Thanks for the info Keith, all the lights seem to be working ok, I do have front fog lights all the lights seem to be ok, when I switch off the ignition it shows head lights failed? but they are working fine.

I will have to take to a garage :mad:
Tony

I wonder at this stage is it worth spending any more on the project?

It will probably cost quite a bit to have a garage do this and there is no guarantee that it will work.

And there is the possibility that the LSM is faulty.

It cost me €113 (about £75) to have my new IPK coded to the car - and that was a straightforward job.

[Rob Bell]

I am reading all this with great detail, as the thought of buying a brand new instrument pack is making my wallet feel very very nervous! A second hand unit would be great, but clearly there are 'issues'.

As I also want to retrofit cruise to my car, which means substituting a new ZCS code into the instrument pack to get it working, might the whole lot be attempted in a single 'shot' as it were? i.e. re-programme a second hand IPK with the VIN data and ZCS necessary to run cruise?

[CDTi]

I. re-programme a second hand IPK with the VIN data and ZCS necessary to run cruise?
I think this is the crux of the situation, Rob - it seems that you cannot reprogram a second hand IPK.

[Mike]

I think this is the crux of the situation, Rob - it seems that you cannot reprogram a second hand IPK.

afaik that is the case. That is why all these 'jokers' who sell s/h IPK's on ebay, like the s/h ECU's are a bit naughty imo.

[Rob Bell]

True enough, but the information is on an EPROM isn't it? And if I recall correctly, an EPROM can be wiped completely clean under a UV lamp? Therefore, would it not then be possible to reprogramme the IPK?
Or... would the IPK be rejected by Testbook as being completely corrupted?

[Keith]

No Eproms that I know of in these cars

[tony_fry]

Hello Keith,

There is an Eprom built into the back of the IPK, when the millage fixer was trying to get mine working, he download the VIN number from the Eprom and said that he had to work out the coding on the Eprom, which is where the problem was as it was written in code!!, but he said with a bit of time he would be able to re-code the Eprom, but I think that 2 months is quite long enough, so I ask for a refund.

Further the your earlier message to me, I now have a IPK that has not yet been touched by the Mileage Corrector, so all I would hopefully have to do is get the LSM T4'ed and it should match the IPK? is that correct.

P.S he did say that he would try to get a new Eprom from his source, so he could enter all my details from the car, but never did!!!

[Christopher]

Probably an eeprom (or e^2prom) ;)

[tony_fry]

Thanks Christopher :pillow:

[Keith]

Hello Keith,

There is an Eprom built into the back of the IPK, when the millage fixer was trying to get mine working, he download the VIN number from the Eprom and said that he had to work out the coding on the Eprom, which is where the problem was as it was written in code!!, but he said with a bit of time he would be able to re-code the Eprom, but I think that 2 months is quite long enough, so I ask for a refund.

Further the your earlier message to me, I now have a IPK that has not yet been touched by the Mileage Corrector, so all I would hopefully have to do is get the LSM T4'ed and it should match the IPK? is that correct.

P.S he did say that he would try to get a new Eprom from his source, so he could enter all my details from the car, but never did!!!

My definition of an Eeprom was in reply to Robs post I have not seen a UV erasable one in the cluster these are very obvious they have a sticker to block out the light normally over a glass window

as for matching the LSM to the new cluster give your local mgr dealer a call and keep your fingers crossed, it might work

[Rob Bell]

Just read the wikipaedia on eeprom - and the link to electrical field emission required to delete the stored information was getting alarmingly close to the technobabble that you hear on episodes of ST:TNG... :(

Ugh. But presumably there MUST be a way of sorting this without having to resort to buying new? 400 quid plus programming is a lot to pay just to have the privaledge of having a trip computer and the option to show Travel Master information...

[Keith]

As I understand it you can only code a cluster with 100 miles or less to another car

How T4 checks this I don't know but if it is only reading the mileage as a value then maybe simply getting the secondhand clusters milege zeroed and then code it to the car might work

So first task is to track down the tools available to do the mileage reset these guys offering these services seem to spring up all over the place so I assume they are using a laptop and some software which we could probably also get hold of if we knew where to look

Note plese keep comments purely about zeroing clocks for the purpose of OBC upgrades if it drifts to putting clocks back to hide the cars mileage I will close this and any similar thread!

[CDTi]

I wonder what would happen if I put my original cluster back in?

I have now driven several hundred Kms so it should show an "err", although the VIN etc will be the same.

Just curious, Keith :D - not trying to reduce mileage or anything!

[JohnDotCom]

I remember the days when it was easy to go back to 00000 miles, just keep driving, the Speedo's in them days just kept going around because 6 figure ones were not out there then.

Now I would have to do a Million miles to get back to Zero and maybe more on the electronic read outs.
Is there a upper mileage count on our cars?

At my current 40K per year will take 25 years to get there, not long really.

[davecw000]

Hi there

Sorry - I know this subject has been covered in great detail before – Perhaps because of this I cant find the answer the following.

Got new IPK fitted today – However it has thrown up some error messages.

I bought the IPK as New.
Fitted at a garage with a T4
Now have error with Traction control and Suspension Levelling on the display. (Car has neither of these)
The mileage reads as 0000000.
All the various functions appear to work via the button on the stalk.

This is the interesting bit – The garage said that the T4 was not working properly hence the reason for the errors and mileage reading zero. As this is the functions that the T4 could not reset due to it being faulty?
They said that I will have to take the car back when the T4 is working properly.
However the new IPK is still in the car and I have now done over 100 miles with it installed – I remember reading somewhere that you should not drive the car with a new IPK if the millage has not been reset (but they insisted it was OK) as this will be different from the other ECU’s. So is this going to cause problems for the future – When the T4 “is working properly”

Is this garage feeding me a line – and simply don’t know what they are doing? Or is it likely that the IPK is at fault? Or is there a simple solution – I now fear that this fairly straight forward task is turning into a nightmare.

Regards
David

[CDTi]

Sounds like the garage is spinning you a story, I'm afraid.

You should not drive around with a new uncoded IPK. IIRC the Rave manual says that any IPK with over 255 Kms cannot be coded to a car, although the best advice is not to drive about at all with a new uncoded unit fitted.

Your IPK may be OK with only 100 miles but I would disconnect immediately if I were you. In any event, the garage should provide you with a new one if they cannot coded your existing unit as they gave you wrong information.

[Greeners]

The LSM updates the IPK every 100 kms..........not from when you change the pck but from when the LSM did the last update......so you've got between 1 and 100 kms in which the update will screw a new IPK.

The strange thing is your symptoms are the same as in this thread (http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=30913&highlight=hand)...

[davecw000]

Thanks for the quick replies yet again
However, just to add yet another dimension to this – Been out in the car this morning and noticed that there was no Coil symbol on the IPK. So have I also been sold the wrong IPK? – I did buy one that stated that it was for diesel – Now done over 150 miles so guess the IPK is screwed.
Regards
David

[Greeners]

Thanks for the quick replies yet again
However, just to add yet another dimension to this – Been out in the car this morning and noticed that there was no Coil symbol on the IPK. So have I also been sold the wrong IPK? – I did buy one that stated that it was for diesel – Now done over 150 miles so guess the IPK is screwed.
Regards
David

Post up that part number, ideally from the pack itself rather then the box

The easy way to check the fuel type, is the red area on the rev counter and I think on the diesel, it says "diesel" by the fuel guage.

[CDTi]

The LSM updates the IPK every 100 kms..........not from when you change the pck but from when the LSM did the last update......so you've got between 1 and 100 kms in which the update will screw a new IPK.Where does the 255 KMs mentioned in RAVE come into the equation, David?



...noticed that there was no Coil symbol on the IPK. So have I also been sold the wrong IPK?The coil is shown in the Message centre display. And as Greeners says, the rev counter redlines at 4600 and the fuel guage is maked "diesel".

[kevin]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Rover-75-BRAND-NEW-Instrument-Pack-Message-Centre-A14_W0QQitemZ140257585709QQihZ004QQcategoryZ10414Q QcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262#ebayphotoh osting

from smc site.

by the way Les your picture for the petrol one also says diesel not useing the same picture are you. lol

[Greeners]

Where does the 255 KMs mentioned in RAVE come into the equation, David?






Not sure where that 225 figure comes from, but on RAVE in the instrument section, it states that the odometer information is transmitted to the LSM every 100kms. The VIN check is carried out verytime the key is turned to the II position

[CDTi]

I don't know if the 100 Km update has anything to do with the 255 kms TBH. The Xpart PDF (http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1947&d=1229508714) on the other thread clearly states that an IPK with less than 255 Kms can be coded to a car. As I read it, the 100 Km update from the LSM shouldn't really matter until the IPK is coded.

In this case, Davecw000's IPK may be OK as 150 miles is about 240 Km.

[Greeners]

I think the 100kms figure is the rate at which the LSM/IPK milages are updated....I think the 255kms is how far you can use it without trashing it...( garage using one to check a fault without coding it for example)

Hope that makes sense

[peterllewellyn75]

Hi keith you said (It also reads the cars mileage from the backup held in the LSM) what is a LMS and could I use this to check that my mileage on the speedo is correct - Since having the car for no explanation i have a feeling my car as done more than on the speedo peter

[Greeners]

Hi keith you said (It also reads the cars mileage from the backup held in the LSM) what is a LMS and could I use this to check that my mileage on the speedo is correct - Since having the car for no explanation i have a feeling my car as done more than on the speedo peter

The whole point of this set up is to stop cars being clocked...if they had try to swap IPK or LSM, you'd get a VIN error if you put it on the testbook

[Keith]

No Peter unfortunately you can't compare info between LSM and Cluster

These cars carry the miles very well so if Cluster and LSM had been changed or the cluster clocked (and no I can't do that) hence a lower mileage was being displayed you would have to look for the tell tale signs of wear etc pedals, steering wheel, seats etc

My Tourer has over 140K on the clock and it really is not that obvious when compared to my saloon with 60k on the clock!

[peterllewellyn75]

thanks keith the reason i thought it might have done more miles than on the clock was I had 14500 miles when i purchased it but most of the miles was done in the first year and i had to put new front pads on at 38,000 miles and i have been told that they mainly need changing at about 55000 to 60000 miles peter

[davecw000]

Hi

Sorry to have taken such a long time to come back – Checked the IPK and it is for a diesel so that’s OK.

Contacted the garage to express my concerns about the mileage reset – But they tried to assure me that there will no problems “once they get their T4 sorted out” – Can see difficult times ahead

Regards
David

[CDTi]

Contacted the garage to express my concerns about the mileage reset – But they tried to assure me that there will no problems “once they get their T4 sorted out” – Can see difficult times ahead

Regards
DavidYou will have to wait and see. I suppose the Rave manual could be wrong and the garage could be right......

[StevenWilliams]

Keep us informed on how you get on. I'd be tempted to swap the old unit back in just in case.



I also have a question regarding the IPK upgrades.


If I change the internal cutout can you use a Diesel IPK in a Petrol car? Diesel ones can be bought semi cheap but Orange Petrol units are like gold dust.

Some people have stated yes and others NO. I'm looking for the difinitive answer hence usingthis thread.

[tomcat22]

reanimating this thread... :D

I also tried to retrofit the message centre, took the Eprom from the old IPK to the other one with MC, but screen keeps black.

So I recalculated ZCS-Codes:
old SA: 21804C4081412242 -> new SA: 21804C4081414242.

But not sure if I set the correct bit. :shrug:

Which is the bit for the MC? Any ideas?

Tom

[The_Monk]

I believe you need to set a value In the actual EEPROM dump in the one you swapped over. PhilT4 is the chap you need for that, he did post the info up somewhere but there is a number of variations.

If the screen is black the EEPROM could be in upside down.

Changing the ZCS value you have, changes the car from LPG to Lampwash.

[Phil-T4]

The only thing you have done there is to remove LPG and add Lamp Wash????

The MC doesnt use the main ZCS coding, its a dealer option change, if your old IPK was a standard one the eprom swap wont work without changing the contents of said eprom.

If you can dump the eprom contents and send it to me, i'll find the bit that need changing and send it back to you.

[tomcat22]

Ah ok! Thanks for Info. This change does not make sense, I fully agree :getmecoat:

Yes, the MC is a dealer option, I changed it to high line IPK there first, but screen is still black. EEprom is not upside down, mileage read out correct.

The IPK dealer options also influence the ZCS status, but I dont know the correct expression for my ZCS-calculation sheet. GM6? LSM..?

Today I will try to reprogram the IPK, which now has a new EEprom on it, because I dont have the possibility to dump and change values. What do you use for that?

Tom

[billcoleman]

As you are talking about ZCS codes, does anyone know if it is possible to get the ZCS code to make my retrofitted cruise control (in a diesel) fully functional (so that the resume function works). And how do you update the ECU?

Bill C

reanimating this thread... :D

I also tried to retrofit the message centre, took the Eprom from the old IPK to the other one with MC, but screen keeps black.

So I recalculated ZCS-Codes:


But not sure if I set the correct bit. :shrug:

Which is the bit for the MC? Any ideas?

Tom

[The_Monk]

As you are talking about ZCS codes, does anyone know if it is possible to get the ZCS code to make my retrofitted cruise control (in a diesel) fully functional (so that the resume function works). And how do you update the ECU?

Bill C

Yup, done it a few times. You need the new codes with checksums and a t4 operator that can do it for you. If you have an operator I can send you over the codes free of charge. :}

[Phil-T4]

Ah ok! Thanks for Info. This change does not make sense, I fully agree :getmecoat:

Yes, the MC is a dealer option, I changed it to high line IPK there first, but screen is still black. EEprom is not upside down, mileage read out correct.

The IPK dealer options also influence the ZCS status, but I dont know the correct expression for my ZCS-calculation sheet. GM6? LSM..?

Today I will try to reprogram the IPK, which now has a new EEprom on it, because I dont have the possibility to dump and change values. What do you use for that?

Tom

The dealer options DONT change the GM, SA or VN codes, but they do change the Auxillary SA codes which contains the data of the dealer options screen and the Auxillary VN code which contains the country code.

If the eprom is blank you wont be able to do it, the eprom contains data which MUST be present for the IPK to work.

Generally a serial eprom reader will do the job, i have quite a few but favourite one is the Xprog-M programmer.

[The_Monk]

Incidently a programmed EEPROM that contains car specifics on the aux SA, vin, and mileage but no ZCS codes, i.e. 00000000000 causes mayhem!

[tomcat22]

Thanks! I wasnt aware the differences between SA & aux SA. Got it now :}

Meanwhile I tried the new EEprom, trip mileage was PPPP, some automatic gearbox symbols appeared, mileage was 999999.

Reconfigure the ECUs resulted error 10 or 85 for the IPK
After reading the config again the actual ZCS-Codes were in the IPK, but the VIN was SARRJZLKRY-------, the last 7 digits missing. Other things did not change.

My next idea was to pull the WP that way, that there would be no more write protection...

But as I read your posts I will have to programm the EEprom with a serial programmer, but what content to put in? (For the pektron BCU a blank EEprom worked fine)

[Phil-T4]

If you read the old eprom and change the byte at location 5Ch to 54, this will enable the MC display.
program your new eprom, fit the ipk and it should be working, if you see traction control error on the display (presuming the car doesnt have it of course!) change a dealer option to rewrite the coding into all the ecu's.

[billcoleman]

That sounds encouraging. Maybe it would be better to drop into your place next time I am in the Midlands.

Yup, done it a few times. You need the new codes with checksums and a t4 operator that can do it for you. If you have an operator I can send you over the codes free of charge. :}

[tomcat22]

Incidently a programmed EEPROM that contains car specifics on the aux SA, vin, and mileage but no ZCS codes, i.e. 00000000000 causes mayhem!

Meanwhile I ordered a serial programmer to change the byte at location 5Ch to 54.

But being nosy I dont get the difference. I thought a new blank EEprom only contains zeros?! So how to get the new EEprom to work with the IPK?

[The_Monk]

Meanwhile I ordered a serial programmer to change the byte at location 5Ch to 54.

But being nosy I dont get the difference. I thought a new blank EEprom only contains zeros?! So how to get the new EEprom to work with the IPK?

If its programmed to a new state the T4 program's the data in. A totally blank EEPROM won't work and the IPK usually states mileage of around 600k and chucks up various messages. Do you have phils bin files? The files have the data in to tell the T4 the IPK is new and accept new programming.

[tomcat22]

If its programmed to a new state the T4 program's the data in. A totally blank EEPROM won't work and the IPK usually states mileage of around 600k and chucks up various messages. Do you have phils bin files? The files have the data in to tell the T4 the IPK is new and accept new programming.

Ok. I am a hardware engineer, so software issues are very new to me. First time the empty EEprom resulted 323k on the odometer, after next start 999k999. Nevermind, will try Phils file, but dont know where it is hidden :shrug:

[Keith]

Good heavens

You chaps have progressed things nicely since the beginning of this thread.
Some of my earlier T4 comments on the forum are probably a bit out of date now but I hope the info and screen dumps I provided have been useful.

At the time I was pretty much doing a one man band and getting anyone to share info especially on ZCS calcs and how to apply them to the car was near impossible to obtain.

Actually that's not strictly true, plenty of people offered to sell me spreadsheet for £2-300 to do the ZCS stuff but that not the spirit in which I worked I was happy to share all my knowledge for free.

I still don't know how to do it but glad it is no longer the 'secret' it once was.

[The_Monk]

Good heavens

You chaps have progressed things nicely since the beginning of this thread.
Some of my earlier T4 comments on the forum are probably a bit out of date now but I hope the info and screen dumps I provided have been useful.

At the time I was pretty much doing a one man band and getting anyone to share info especially on ZCS calcs and how to apply them to the car was near impossible to obtain.

Actually that's not strictly true, plenty of people offered to sell me spreadsheet for £2-300 to do the ZCS stuff but that not the spirit in which I worked I was happy to share all my knowledge for free.

I still don't know how to do it but glad it is no longer the 'secret' it once was.

Keith if you look on the community site I uploaded the calculations there. :}


Ok. I am a hardware engineer, so software issues are very new to me. First time the empty EEprom resulted 323k on the odometer, after next start 999k999. Nevermind, will try Phils file, but dont know where it is hidden :shrug:

Have a search under philt4 they are here :-)

[tomcat22]

Brian helped me out, file is here now, the pickit programmer will be there tomorrow, just still need to find out the wiring for the ICSP.

Could have bougt a new IPK and use the T4, but wanna learn something :D

[tomcat22]

Meanwhile I was successful programming the virgin dump of a YAC003850 to an EEprom (many thanks to Brian!), odometer says 000000 miles, but the trip computer display is still dark. Will try to reconfigure when the kids are sleeping, but thought the MC would work instantly... :bowdown:

[marinabrian]

Silly question Tom, you do have the indicator stalk switch with the computer button fitted?
Brian :D

[tomcat22]

Silly question Tom, you do have the indicator stalk switch with the computer button fitted?
Brian :D

:D
But yes, it is there! And when opening the door the MC should show it even without touching the stalk switch button

Reconfig the ECUs with ZCS didnt help, the Testbook complains the IPK being too new or something (error 04).

Alternatively I tried to read out the original EEprom, but all I get is FFF7 in all registers. :confused::mad:

[marinabrian]

Tom the lowline IPK eeprom cannot be read in circuit.
The reason T4 is complaining is the IPK eeprom dump is from a 2005 manufactured IPK.
What disc are you using on your T4 DST0006V is the latest (and last) revision
Brian :D

[BigRuss]

Just a word of caution here you can't just fit any old message centre ;)

There are differences between them, fitting one from an older car may not give you the functions available on newer models.


Russ

[tomcat22]

@Brian:
Will have a look at the CDs shortly.
The original EEprom, coming from a lowline IPK, was soldered off, to be read out, without success. The pinning is correct

@Russ:
The datecode of my highline IPK PCBs is 2701 & 0702. I thought that the PCB remained the same over the years, but as I read your comment the 2005 dump wont work on them?!

@all:
Changing the byte at location 5Ch to 54 is more difficult as I thought, because there is a word (x16), so which bytes to change here?

http://www.bildercache.de/bild/20120717-003508-449.jpg

[marinabrian]

@Brian:
Will have a look at the CDs shortly.
The original EEprom, coming from a lowline IPK, was soldered off, to be read out, without success. The pinning is correct

@Russ:
The datecode of my highline IPK PCBs is 2701 & 0702. I thought that the PCB remained the same over the years, but as I read your comment the 2005 dump wont work on them?!

@all:
Changing the byte at location 5Ch to 54 is more difficult as I thought, because there is a word (x16), so which bytes to change here?

http://www.bildercache.de/bild/20120717-003508-449.jpg
At your highlighted location change it to 540F, this should enable the message centre with your original dump ;)
Brian :D

[tomcat22]

At your highlighted location change it to 540F, this should enable the message centre with your original dump ;)
Brian :D

Ok, will try tomorrow. But this was from the YAC003850 dump. The original low line EEProm refuses being read out.

The IPKs I have are YAC001100 & YAC112393, which dump will work for them?

Will go to bed now, technic has beaten me again today :(
But tomorrow... (hope dies last) ... :cool:

[marinabrian]

Ok, will try tomorrow. But this was from the YAC003850 dump. The original low line EEProm refuses being read out.

The IPKs I have are YAC001100 & YAC112393, which dump will work for them?

Will go to bed now, technic has beaten me again today :(
But tomorrow... (hope dies last) ... :cool:

Put the virgin dump into your IPK it will work ;), connect to the car and allow t4 to reconfigure all ECUs
Like this....
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg279/marinabrian/IPK%20fitting/DSC00890.jpg
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg279/marinabrian/IPK%20fitting/DSC00891.jpg
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg279/marinabrian/IPK%20fitting/DSC00892.jpg
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg279/marinabrian/IPK%20fitting/DSC00893.jpg
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg279/marinabrian/IPK%20fitting/DSC00894.jpg

[Phil-T4]

Thomas,
You need to switch the programmer into 8 Bit mode, select the 93LCxA,C Device and then choose the 93LC56A (C x8) as the part.

[tomcat22]

@Brian:
Thanks again for the illustration. That were the steps I took. I confirmed the configuration data and reconfigured the ECUs, but the Error was that the IPK was too new, which I couldn't pass over. Will try the full program with ZCS this evening

@Phil:
Thomas,
You need to switch the programmer into 8 Bit mode, select the 93LCxA,C Device and then choose the 93LC56A (C x8) as the part.

Now I am confused, as you wrote here the setting is 16 bit:
http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=87489
As with my pickit2 no 93S56 (x16) can be read out, I used the 93LC56B (x16) meanwhile. Programming and verifying is fine, but the MC does not show any signs of life. I tried the YAC003850 virgin dump, car is SARRJ...YM118XXX.

It keeps exciting ;)

[The_Monk]

Are you plugging it into the car for power, or powering it up on the bench? I've powered a few on the bench that have not powered the MC but work in the car.

[berkshirelad]

You would have to get the mileage the same as your car, or as near to it.

Is there a law about altering the mileage data on a vehicle? Specifically, is it illegal to change the mileage data on a car? We wouldn't want Mr.Plod come knocking on our doors saying we've been naughty.... :oops: :unlucky:

There is no such law. The law does not even require a mileometer to be fitted to a car.

What is an offence, under the Trade Descriptions ACT, to to state or imply that a recorded mileage is genuine if it is not.

[tomcat22]

Are you plugging it into the car for power, or powering it up on the bench? I've powered a few on the bench that have not powered the MC but work in the car.

Same here. I desolder the EEProm before prgramming and resolder it afterwards, then powering up the whole IPK. Did you find out why the MC is not powered sometimes? Is it the PCB or did the change at location 05Ch help out?

[The_Monk]

Same here. I desolder the EEProm before prgramming and resolder it afterwards, then powering up the whole IPK. Did you find out why the MC is not powered sometimes? Is it the PCB or did the change at location 05Ch help out?

I found it didn't power up on a bench supply. Plugged into the car and it worked a charm. I've not changed the EEPROM contents as I have a t4 and can program the blank ipks to the car.

[tomcat22]

I found it didn't power up on a bench supply. Plugged into the car and it worked a charm. I've not changed the EEPROM contents as I have a t4 and can program the blank ipks to the car.

T4 (mobile) is here too. But when looking at Brians pics the MC should work before programming the blank IPK to the car. Will see this afternoon what happens then :bowdown: :D

[The_Monk]

Brian has it connected into the car on his pics. I'm on about a bench power supply that would power it on a desk out of the car. It should power up in the car, on the occasions mine hasn't powered it's because it's been on the bench supply.

[Phil-T4]

@Brian:
Thanks again for the illustration. That were the steps I took. I confirmed the configuration data and reconfigured the ECUs, but the Error was that the IPK was too new, which I couldn't pass over. Will try the full program with ZCS this evening

@Phil:


Now I am confused, as you wrote here the setting is 16 bit:
http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=87489
As with my pickit2 no 93S56 (x16) can be read out, I used the 93LC56B (x16) meanwhile. Programming and verifying is fine, but the MC does not show any signs of life. I tried the YAC003850 virgin dump, car is SARRJ...YM118XXX.

It keeps exciting ;)


Ooops that was wrong - should be 8 bit :getmecoat:

[tomcat22]

Ooops that was wrong - should be 8 bit :getmecoat:

Worked well with virgin dump programmed with 16bit at the diesel today! :drunk: :sunny: :hippy: :clap: :hurray: :disco:
Many thanks for all the helpful hints! :}:}:}:}:}

Changing 05Ch to 540F resulted PPPP in the trip computer. Corrected it and all was fine. Maybe this has something to do with 8/16bit settings. Will now go to activate the MC in the petrol car :bowdown: :D

[Phil-T4]

Still best to do your editing in 8 bit ;)

You will find the contents of loctaion 05c in 8 bit mode moves to the second byte at location 05F due to the difference in 8 and 16 bit addressing ;)

[tomcat22]

Again success, with the petrol car! Could have sworn I used the DST0006V last time too, but this time reconfiguring worked. :):):)

The MC was always there in the dump, but I had tried the EEprom at a test PCB first, which had the display of the MC removed. Silly me thought that the LEDs beyond would be enlighted anyway, but they were not. :o

It is so easy when you know how to do it, but every step I took first seemed to go into the wrong direction. Now I am really really happy! Thanks again ;)

To contribute to the thread my experience is, that the 93LC56 will do in 16 bit mode.
Buy here: http://www.newark.com/microchip/93lc56b-i-sn/ic-eeprom-2kbit-serial-3mhz-soic/dp/62K2085

[marinabrian]

Nice to know you're sorted Thomas :D
When Phil talks about 8 bit, he means when he's manually altering the binary dump, however all programming must take place in 16 bit mode ;)
Brian :D

[tomcat22]

ok. :D
I am still interested how you got the pickit2 work with the 93S56, as it is not supported yet in the latest release of the programmer V2.61 :confused:

[marinabrian]

ok. :D
I am still interested how you got the pickit2 work with the 93S56, as it is not supported yet in the latest release of the programmer V2.61 :confused:
Hi Thomas, it works as a 16 bit variant as that is how the data out laid out within the device.
the only physical difference between the 93c56 and the 93s56 being the pinouts on pins 6 and 7, which aren't used during programming ;)
Brian :)

[tomcat22]

Hi Thomas, it works as a 16 bit variant as that is how the data out laid out within the device.
the only physical difference between the 93c56 and the 93s56 being the pinouts on pins 6 and 7, which aren't used during programming ;)
Brian :)

I tried to read out several 93S56 in 16 bit mode (setting was 93(L)C56), but all registers were FFF7. Pin 6 & 7 are n.c. Programming resulted error at 0x000000.
But most important: the successful retrofit of the MC in the petrol car. :D