HGF Diagnosed - How Much Should it Cost?

[red mist]

After having the car in a couple of times due to loosing coolant.
Local garage has just done another pressure test and no external leaks apparent.
Slight signs of oil on header tank cap. So he has diagnosed the start of HGF.
Its a 1.8. He's quoting £616.28 for fix
This involves sending car to local machine shop to skim head. As he is only a small local garage, says he has done a lot in th epast for 200 and 400 rovers though.

Is this reasonable? Do I carry out other checks before getting it done?

On the bright side he did say that the modified unit he will fit is much more robust than the original one Rover fitted.

Look forward to your thoughts...

[red mist]

Phoned Austin Garages which is only 3 miles from home. Took it down for them to take a quick look.
Its a great place. You could tell that they are a true specialist MG Rover Garage.
Its booked in fro Thursday for head gasket, cambelt, water pump, flushing and something else in the sump.
Even though its a fairly hefty bill I actually feel I'm now getting somewhere and I'm confident when I get it back on Saturday morning that the under the bonnet stuff will be sorted.
:o

[Jezzer 1]

Phoned Austin Garages which is only 3 miles from home. Took it down for them to take a quick look.
Its a great place. You could tell that they are a true specialist MG Rover Garage.
Its booked in fro Thursday for head gasket, cambelt, water pump, flushing and something else in the sump.
Even though its a fairly hefty bill I actually feel I'm now getting somewhere and I'm confident when I get it back on Saturday morning that the under the bonnet stuff will be sorted.
:o


I may see you on Saturday morning, 'cos I'm dropping my Limo in for Nick to do some conversion work. You are right that you have found THE right place to go.

Just hope that Nick's done it by the time I get there;).

[92 squadron]

"On the bright side he did say that the modified unit he will fit is much more robust than the original one Rover fitted"

Not sure what he means by this.:confused:

[chrissyboy]

thats £200 too much . should be around the £450 mark, the something in the sump i would gues is the uprated ladder with the is a must for the mls gasket, they should strip it down and just send the head to be measured and to see if it needs a skim.,im having mine done on monday ,new uprated mls gasket ,new bolts ladder ,water pump, timing belt tensioners and new valve stem seals the works :D the cost will be .............. nothing ;)

[92 squadron]

thats £200 too much . should be around the £450 mark, the something in the sump i would gues is the uprated ladder with the is a must for the mls gasket, they should strip it down and just send the head to be measured and to see if it needs a skim.,im having mine done on monday ,new uprated mls gasket ,new bolts ladder ,water pump, timing belt tensioners and new valve stem seals the works :D the cost will be .............. nothing ;)

NOWT!!!! how did youwork that one?

Whats the ladder?:shrug:

[keir1163]

always wortth getting the head skimmed at least, i normally pressure test as well in case of a crack. Nothing worse than putting it all back and having the same prob!
Its not a hard job to do really and i agree that its about £200 over the top.

Always ask to see the old parts for evaluation as its easy for garages to charge for a timing tensioner and not actually fit one. and it really is a gamble if you donnt fit one.
That said , if another member recommends a garage for good service then it may be woorth the extra

[Lovel]

always wortth getting the head skimmed at least, i normally pressure test as well in case of a crack. Nothing worse than putting it all back and having the same prob!
Its not a hard job to do really and i agree that its about £200 over the top.

Always ask to see the old parts for evaluation as its easy for garages to charge for a timing tensioner and not actually fit one. and it really is a gamble if you donnt fit one.
That said , if another member recommends a garage for good service then it may be woorth the extra

Why would you skim the head or crack test in this case?

This is the standard answer from the trade "experts", and most of them without a common understanding or appreciation of engineering materials. The engine has not been overheated. In the vast majority of cases it is only the elastomer beading that has begun to extrude due to a marginal design.

For me the cylinder head and/or block faces should have had a continuous milled slot where the elastomer would locate in thereby reducing the extrusion loading, however probably due to mass production costs this would have been eliminated?

The cylinder head needs to be checked on a proper engineering straight edge or face plate first and foremost, before anything else.

The "trade" have stood to make a lot of money from this K series issue, and lots of legends abound about what to do, all they do is perpetuate the myth by saying things like needs a skim and crack test etc. If you have ever stepped inside one of these machine shops who are supposedly the experts at renovating cylinders heads you will get a real education about how slap dash they can be. I have had too many precision engineered items ruined by these monkeys.

In reality the cost of a HGF replacement should be small and could be compared to a service on some other makes of cars.

[mh007]

I agree, the cylinder head should always be skimmed. I have never done a head gasket without skimming the head wether it be petrol/diesel or alumiinium/cast iron.

There's so much work involved & it's not worth taking the chance.

I didn't think the first price was too bad if that includes uprated HG gasket set, stretch bolts, timing belt kit, coolant & oil/filter change.

To be honest, i'd change the water pump & thermostat while I was at it !

[mh007]

[QUOTE=Lovel;595532]Why would you skim the head or crack test in this case?

This is the standard answer from the trade "experts", and most of them without a common understanding or appreciation of engineering materials. The engine has not been overheated. In the vast majority of cases it is only the elastomer beading that has begun to extrude due to a marginal design.

I assume by this response, you are an engineer in the motor trade & have been for some considerable amount of time ?

To me this is just 'common sense'

For me the cylinder head and/or block faces should have had a continuous milled slot where the elastomer would locate in thereby reducing the extrusion loading, however probably due to mass production costs this would have been eliminated?

The fact is, the K series engine does not have a 'continous milled slot' & an engine does not exist with a perfect design.

The cylinder head needs to be checked on a proper engineering straight edge or face plate first and foremost, before anything else.

The "trade" have stood to make a lot of money from this K series issue, and lots of legends abound about what to do, all they do is perpetuate the myth by saying things like needs a skim and crack test etc. If you have ever stepped inside one of these machine shops who are supposedly the experts at renovating cylinders heads you will get a real education about how slap dash they can be. I have had too many precision engineered items ruined by these monkeys.

I can only assume that you have had a bad experience with an engineering shop or the motor trade in general but please don't tar us all with the same brush !
I have invested a huge amount of money in equipment over my 37yrs in the trade & that is for a reason..............I work to a very high standard & it just doesn't pay to cut corners.

In reality the cost of a HGF replacement should be small and could be compared to a service on some other makes of cars.

I disagree, a HG replacement is nothing like a 'service' !!
How did you ever come to that conclusion ? [QUOTE]

[keir1163]

well we all have our own opinions. I am assuming Lovel is an engineer and can overide the advice of just about anyone i have ever come across. In whichncase i will apologise on bended knee.

but i mwould still skim it for the sake of a few quid

[justmicky]

Had mine done twice now. First time it cost me around £700, second time it was about £ 750 but head was skimmed. Different garages.

[chrissyboy]

NOWT!!!! how did youwork that one?

Whats the ladder?:shrug:


im training in a garage doing the diagnostics at the moment and the boss has told me not to worry as they will repair it free :D ,by the way im not being paid as yet asthe trianing im doing would cost me a fortune if i was to pay for a course in it ..a reward for all the hard work im putting in i guess,,larred rail ,is the oil rail in the sump if i understood what they said ..

[chrissyboy]

the head should be skimmed only if it is warped no need to skim it ifthe head is striaght the best way to check if the head is damaged is by a smoke test ..the smoke will find any area tht is leaking , my head wasnt leaking smoke at the gasket ,but the gasket is broke between 3 and 4 cylinder .maybe the guy that did the head gasket for th previous owner didnt seal it all over and just did the outer lines ,instead of between the cylinders too .car is running great ,no lost of power and no signs of hgf .was only the learning how to use a smoke machine tha it was dicovered that the gasket has a break ..the garages i know include the water pump with any hgf jobsthey do ,my guys will also change the timimng belt whilst it is all stripped down just for the cost of a new belt ,extra ,

[red mist]

:) Collected my 75 from Austin Garages this afternoon.
Had a good look at the old gasket.
Nick told me it was one of the later versions MG Rover started fitting to attempt to stop early HGF.
He showed me the large amount of holes drilled to allow th egasket to fill and keep itself in place. Even so you could see it startign to lift.
Good news was that this version holds back the flow of water into the oil rather than allowing a catastrophic failure straight away so the unit did its job I guess.
Seems to run a lot smoother and has lost its tapet noise on start up.
A poorer man financially but a much happier soul knowing the car is now back on th estraight and narrow.
Even though I'e only picked it up I'd thoroughly recommend Austin garages near Burton on Trent if you want a job doing properly first time.:)